RPM Dropping = Engine Stalling
 

One of our local RX8 friends (Vyndictive) have been dealing with an issue that I feel should be discussed here to get everyone’s feedback and expert opinion that has me scratching my head.
This is his car’s description taken from his signature:
'04 Bril Black MT
Revi Intake w/ ram air duct - RB Cat back Exhaust - Clear Corners - Painted Fender Vents - Fog Light Rewire - Rear "Foglight" - Bose - Sirius - Interior LEDs - Painted calipers - TC Sportsline front+rear strut bars - Mazcare Gutted Cat Midpipe - RB Gauge Cluster - RB Plug Wires - RB Air Screens - VooDoo Shift Knob

Here is the story:
We first met to change out his mid-pipe.
Taken the normal precautions, I disconnected the negative battery.
After getting everything together and hooking the battery back up, I did the KAM and NVRAM reset.
We started the car and let it sit idle for roughly 10 minutes while we cleaned-up, nothing abnormal was observed/heard.
As he drove it down the road, he experienced the sporadic RPM fluctuation that is commonly seen after resetting the PCM.
I told him that this will occur for a little bit but will get better once it relearns itself.
We drove it for a while and everytime he pushed in the clutch to start braking (coming up to a stop), the RPM would suddenly drop and never attempt to recover itself.
The car would just stall, to which I told him I had that occur a couple separate times, but shouldn’t be that bad next time we run the car.
He wanted me to drive it, so as I’m driving his car I find myself fighting to keep it from stalling when approaching a stop.
You have to give it a slight amount of gas to keep it from stalling (which is hard while braking and holding the clutch in).
I pulled into a parking lot and let it sit idle, but it idled just fine (around 880 rpm).
I then revved it up in 1K rpm increments and let it drop back to idle, but each time it stalled.
I restarted it and continued revving it (and stalling it) until it got better (which took a while).
So we drove back to the shop and I left, but he informed me that it stalled a few times during the day.
After a couple days it ran just fine without any stalling (until the next time we met months later).

So this past weekend we met to change out brake pads, rotors, and spark plugs.
So once again, following the proper precautions, I disconnected the negative side of the battery.
Once we got everything back together we ran it at idle for roughly 10 minutes.
As we were taking it out for a drive, we once again had continuous stalling like crazy (worse than I’ve ever seen).
We drove it around for awhile and he constantly revved it up to redline and everything sounded normal and smooth, but everytime he let the RPM drop below 800 RPM the car stalls (just continuously drops... never even attempts to stop).
Like before, we stopped in a parking lot and constantly revved it up and letting it drop to idle, but it could never recover itself.
No matter what we did, it kept stalling.
Hoping that it would be better the next day (like last time) I left and tried to search this forum for similar symptoms, but couldn't find anything like this.

It’s been a few days and he still experiences constant stalling when he lets the RPM suddenly drop.
Remember, if we start the car and let it sit idle, it runs just fine and doesn’t jump around.
Only when we rev it up and let the RPM drop does it stall.
I noticed he had several grounding cables going to the battery terminal.
I suggested that he try removing those ground cables and use different grounding points on the chassis.
I also suggested that he cleaned the MAF sensor just to rule that out (I read a thread where a guy had somewhat similar issues and cleaning the MAF helped).
What gets me is that last time we experienced this; the stalling went away after a couple days and never returned (until we disconnected the battery).
If there were any mechanical issues or vacuum leaks, this would constantly occur and not “go away” days later.
We never received a CEL.
Its almost like the PCM is VERY VERY SLOW to relearn itself.

Can anyone think of other areas to focus on?
Any reason why the car would run fine at idle, run fine revving it to redline, but not stop at the idle target while dropping RPM)?
And then possibly run fine DAYS later and never stall again (until the battery is disconnected).
He is getting upset dealing with his unpredictable RX8.

reset the e-shaft position sensor profile in the nvram

make sure all the plug boots are completely on.

if that doesn't work its a bad neutral sensor on the tranny

Plug boots are on tight...

correct me if I'm wrong, but a bad neutral sensor would mean that the car would never idle properly? Cold starts it idles fine, and after a few starts at operating temp it will idle fine... only when dropping from higher rpm under no load will it still.

Is my ECU retarded?

We both reset the NVRAM and the KAM

After he installed the plugs and wires, I went back through and verified they were secured.

This is what I thought too, but was confused when the car started running fine days later (and up until we disconnected the battery again).
Any idea why that would be?

I found this TSB, another thing worth looking at Vyn.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...17-05-1487.pdf

Thinking along the lines of what Zoom suggested with the e-shaft sensor, might also be worth looking over the sensor and positioning plate to verify nothing is obstructing the sensor from reading the correct number of pulses (ex: debris in the plate teeth of a warped plate).

The attached pic shows the location of the sensor.
You'll notice the e-shaft pulley (which is the lowest pulley) in the upper-left corner of the pic and the positioning plate right behind it (with the teeth).
Maybe even verify that the sensor is secured to the bracket.

Once you start it, run the engine and observe the pulley.
See if it wobbles or if the plate looks warped.
Didn't you have an aftermarket pulley too?

Check for vacuum leaks - the computer can adjust for a really weak idle mixture, but it takes a long time to build up to the +20 or +30 trim level.

A vacuum leak would only affect the idle, and only after the trim is lost.......

Check that the nipple below/behind the throttle body is capped from your Revi install.

S

But whats weird is that when you start the engine and let it sit idle, it runs just fine.
Only when you rev it up and let the RPM fall below 880rpm does it stall (without hesitation).
Still think it could be a vacuum leak?

I clearly do recall seeing the VFAD nipple in place behind the throttle body.
Might be worth taking out to verify its not torn anywhere. :dunno:

Definitely not that. I pointed it out referring to my post-REVi install vacuum leak when I screwed up and left off the bright red cap (put it on my stock intake so I wouldn't lose it then promptly forgot about it). It's enough of a leak that it would throw a CEL after a couple drive cycles anyway.

Behavior seems identical to normal reset but the computer appears to not be relearning.

I have an uninstalled AP. Anyone know if that could be used to help troubleshoot? He wouldn't be able to use it permanently (MINE! ;)) but if we can pull diagnostics from it we might be able to pinpoint why the Computer seems to be acting like it's been inhaling exhaust fumes.

Ok... just got back from Mazda of Wooster... I'll tell you the total price at the end. No peaking, just read...

Threw Codes:
P0506 (Throttle body control system)
P2070 (Intake manifold control system)
(no surprise) P0420 for the cat malfunctioning... becauses its in a box in my office.

They're stating that the aftermarket intake (racing beat) cause the carbon build-up in the intake manifold, and there is a possibility of internal engine damage.
Also, because of the RB intake, that it voids the engine warrenty. . . So, my thoughts are to take the car to Midas. Tell them to install the old Cat.
Perhaps, pending your advice, I have the stock airbox and perhaps I should do that also before taking into Cascade Mazda with the engine TSB and requesting a compression check because my motor be bad.

My problems sound the exact same to Rotary Rasp in the following thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=P0506

TSB for loss of engine power:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...14-08-1924.pdf

Guys - this seems to fit (sort of) the power loss I thought was plugs could be do to bad seals... sure it improved, but not enough. I cannot afford 6 grand and I wouldn't mind a new engine.

Finally,
Total Cost (out of warrenty) from Park Mazda Wooster. $6,500 bucks. I almost threw up. 2 grand just for a cat.... wow.

have they verified carbon in the intake manifold? if so this is an issue that can be verified as an issue not connected to the intake as it occurs to people with the OEM one. If this is actually the case hold on tight and fight them to prove the issue is from the intake- because they cant. 500 members on here with the RB intake can send affidavits affirming the RB intake does not cause carbon build up and another 500 can affidavit the fact that their engines carbon locked and died stock.

the engine recall paperwork with the de-carbon procedure showing the problem on stock motors would be enough for any judge to apply the Magnussen Moss act in your favor.

do not switch dealers- escalate this up the chain at this dealer and then on to mazda etc. they need to man up

same thing happens to my motor when i do a flash with my accessport (fuel trims get reset). If its hot and gets flashed I need to hold the throttle at a steady 5% and wait for the idle to settle, then 4% and wait, then 3 and wait, then 2 and wait, then 1, and about 10 minutes later it will finally idle by itself.

The fuel trims never wonder more then +/- 4%. Then ignition timing is all f'd up though for some reason while its "learning". My engine just tested to be weak but not replaceable yet.

Not sure if its a trend, but after an engine cleaning - it acted normally when getting flashed.

6500 dollars is ridiculous.....2000 for the cat that is just crazy...mazda what assholes

I'd really like to pursue that also... but I really don't think that is the best way to go for me. They know the car is catless - they have seen all the mods done to the car, which is why, without question, they said, warranty is void.

I emailed racing beat to see if they have lab tests to prove their Revi intake performs at, or better than OEM. Protects me under the Magnuson-Moss Act.

I have a stock airbox accessible also and I will probably install that also before taking it into a different dealer.

not a single one of your mods has done anything to cause carbon build up in your engine. your warranty is not void unless the mod causes a problem.

not a one has anything to do with engine performance.


Neither can causes carbon build up. If your Intake was causing any issue AT ALL you'd have a CEL for the MAF sensor. even then it would have no effect on carbon build up.

wait check that- it does have the effect of making you want to redline more WHICH BURNS CARBON OFF. so the problem is LESS because of your intake

and thats IF they have even confirmed carbon build up in the manifold.

gawd i wish i was in ohio. seriously don't switch make them prove the problem and honor the warranty

I'm trying to calm him down and convince him to let me look at it before taking it into the dealer.
I've had many times where I just wanted to give up and let someone else deal with the problem... but the easy way out isn't always the best way.
I'll take all your comments/suggestions into consideration and go through everything I can with him.

Easy folks. Concentrate on the problem. We'll worry About fighting the man at some later date. For now if someone can figure out what would cause his computer to not relearn proper trim... Is it possible that carbon build up would affect the engine Management? If so a sea foam or other carbon build up fixes should help. Keep in mind his car has been running fine before the battery reset.

Check the charging system. You may have an alternator going bad.

A bad battery can do the samething, run at idle but when you drive you use more amps, then let off the throttle and Bam she dies.

I think battery/alternator are definitely on the list of possible culprits but wouldn't that be a problem that comes up on its own? I wouldn't think that disabling the battery temporarily would trigger the symptoms. Or does the NVRAM/KAM require more juice when relearning behavior then it requires during normal operating conditions?

FWIW we are discussing this in the MW forum Akron/Cleveland thread and Jon is leaning towards a bad SSV solenoid. Anyone else think of possible causes based on those codes?

You will not get anything from Racingbeat, Because they're selling it as is.

But seriously, this dealership is full of shit. the Intake Carbon problem happens to even bone STOCK cars. and it has NOTHING to do with the intake itself. it was cause by backfire and all kinds of other crap. jesus muther fooking christ. 6300 to fix it? You might as well just drive your 8 to a wall to get insurance money. shitz.

Dont switch dealership. keep bitching until u get some results. at the end. bring a lawyer into the matter. Then they will know its actually cheaper to fix it then going it into the court, why ? because you WILL WIN. They have NOTHING to proof.

Its winter time so... is it possible you have some water in the fuel line?

Heat fixes that.

If this helps any I was having stalling problems because my battery had a small crack at the bottom of the positive term, which was causing tons of corrosion. Got a new battery and my problems stopped. I have I think one or two threads about this in more detail.

I have an Optima battery I can throw in there to rule that out.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I thought this too when it started stalling.
I observed the internal lights (dash, LCD, etc) and didn't notice anything dimming as the RPM dropped.
But this along with the battery is worth looking at.

Going off of his codes, I reviewed the Mazda shop manual.
The P2070 fails for SSV stuck open and a P0506 failure is when the idle air control system RPM is lower than expected.
I'm thinking maybe something is going on with the SSV (either the solenoid or the actuator) and this is also causing the P0506 code.

Thank you for all the input guys... I'm just working on a list of problems that the car is having.

The lights do dim when rpms drop... perhaps it is charging system... but I've only had to jump the car once. Battery appears to be doing just fine. I put 100 miles on the car yesterday without any signs that the battery was bad.

Stalling problem still remains, and I'm getting some hesitation and loss of power in the top end (4.5k rpm and over) But the car still pulls and feels strong. If it were a compression problem, wouldn't this be worse?

But that problem of stalling at idle remains. No flashing CEL to indicate misfires or anything. (which did occur once before we changes the plugs last saturday (12/6)

On the highway, car runs and cruises just fine. That slight power loss in the top end does make me worried, but I need to ride in another 8 to confirm that they're all not like that. I had bad plugs for awhile so I've sort of forgotten what "normal" feels like.

As for the dealer and warranty information. I haven't contacted the dealer at all since I left after they tried to bend me over. I obviously don't want to get into a legal battle over this.

The real wildcard with this problem is that the car ran fine (other than the signs of bad plugs) until we disconnected the battery, which means this is a programming problem and there is nothing seriously mechanically wrong with the car.

I'll bring my Fluke next time we meet and verify the alternator and battery.
Best thing we can do is just start knocking out possibilities and narrow it down.
Sometimes it helps to be a little open minded while troubleshooting so you don't overlook something because it "supposedly" worked fine before when in reality it was only being masked.

Yeah... I guess we'll just start with the easy ones and work our way down to "new engine."

Well, ran a full tank of gas through the engine... even with these problems and such, MPG is not affected.

266 miles on 13.2 gallons (20mpg for you math majors out there)
A Mix of highway/city... I figured it would be much lower if there was a bunch of junk in the intake. It does support the theory of potentially running lean.

Cleaned the MAF and then sprayed some deep creep into the butterfly valve in the throttle body last night.

Car runs better, but stalling remains.

Is there some idle air valve that could be stuck that could be causing the car to not get any air when idling?

So RK, DeViLbOi, and myself met with Vyndictive today to troubleshoot this issue.
It ended up being a stuck SSV valve that caused this headache.
I'll explain how this went down:

1st thing I did was removed the intake accordion tube and found a nice puddle of oil residue.
I then opened the throttle body flap and stuck my finger in.
I could feel gritty oil all the way in (not to mention my finger was black).
After removing the throttle body I stuck my finger in and felt the same oily grit.

We removed the upper intake manifold and it was oily all the way through.
I could see the SSV valve had a nice build-up along the outside.
I tried to move the value using a hand vacuum pump attached to the actuator, but it wouldn't budge.
We sprayed Sea Foam down the intake passage and let it sit for a while, but that didn't help.
I ended up taking a flat-head screwdriver to the right side of the SSV lever (attaches the actuator shaft to the valve) and hit it with a mini sledge.
Once the lever started moving I could see the valve was slightly open, enough to stick a screwdriver down and pry at it.
I made sure to use a thick screwdriver because I didn't want it breaking in the intake passage.
But I was able to open it fully by using the intake housing to pry the valve.
It wouldn't close on its own, so I had to manually close it while spraying Sea Foam on the valve.
I tried to scrape off as much grit from the valve as possible and sprayed again with Sea Foam.
Once I worked it back an forth a few times I was able to use the hand pump to actuate the valve.
It would open and then slower close, so we kept on spraying Sea Foam in there and worked it back and forth.
After a while I was able to actuate it without it sticking.

We also decided to use Mazda's Engine Cleaner to spray into the intake maintenance ports following their instructions.
We cleaned the upper intake manifold, the throttle body, the accordion tube, and the MAF sensor.
I pulled his RB intake filter out and it looked fine.
After all that we reassembled everything and started the engine (to which we enjoyed the white smoke show).
After the engine warmed and the idle dropped to 880 RPM we revved it up and it returned to idle without any hesitations.
Feeling good about that we took it for a test drive and everything ran smooth.

Since we couldn't possibly remove all build-up I recommended to Vyn that he spray some Sea Foam through the throttle body every now and then just to help work the rest free (still won't be perfect, but can't hurt).
So I would recommend that anyone with idle issues, simply actuate the SSV valve (by hand or with a vacuum pump) and see if it moves.

RK took a couple pics:

Vyn holding the light while I pried at the SSV valve
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/...e5f13f7e3e.jpg

Here is the SSV valve stuck closed... not very pretty:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/...16775b4e9b.jpg

Here is the SSV valve after getting it opened.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/...1b12f04c20.jpg

White smoke delight:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3161/...aedf196567.jpg

So... what caused this? Most likely overfilling the oil... be careful who you trust your car with. I had a good relationship with the guys at the local midas. Would charge 13 bucks if I supplied the oil.
In the colder months, changing your own oil in your daily driver 8 isn't the most appealing thing.

So... makes a good case for purchasing a cheap oil catch can. Good enough for me to purchase one soon.

After having the same issue and reading the great posts I performed all the suggestions and have yet to solve the same issue. The SSV valve was functioning normally, there was some build up inside so I used some sea foam to help with that. The vaccum would operate the valve normally. I cleaned the throttle body and also the MAF sensor to no avail. I'm stumped at this point. The car continues to stall when stopping. It is like the car will not hold an idle and dips to around 500 rpm then will begin to stall if I don't tap the gas. At this point I am going to have to take it to the dealer here in Cincinnati, OH and see what is going on. Almost 80000 miles on my car so hoping it is not too serious like a new engine. I will post the findings. I fear for my ride.

Actuating the valve rules out one thing, but doesn't rule out a bad SSV solenoid (which we didn't have).
Also, with 80,000 miles when was the last time you changed your spark plugs and coils?

What the voltage / amps when the car is running?
hows the cat?
Try cleaning the o2 sensors with some brake cleaner
clean throttle body
clean injectors
fuel filter screen thingee?
Sea foam the engine
clean maf

...I also had a staling issue. the problem was actually fixed with a new MM map. no idea why but he did mention something about fuel scaling?

I changed the plugs and wires about 3months ago and it had been running great after that. I did not change the coils though.

I am seriously thinking of sea foaming the engine. Also, checking the o2 sensors is a good idea as well. I cleaned the throttle body and maf with no luck.

Well I am an idiot, car is running better than ever now. When reinstalling the upper intake I forgot to attach a vaccum hose. Went out this morning started it up, heard the hissing and sure enough plugged back in the hose and presto! Ultimately I think it was a dirty MAF sensor and throttle body. It was great to check the SSV valve operation and get some Sea Foam in there as well.

John316G, Vyndictive thanks for this thread it helped me out a ton.

Good to hear you got it running.

Another good read :)

I stopped going to the Mazda Dealers, each time you go with a concern they just simply slap you with an invoice, the truth is that most of us owners know more about the RX8 engine than the Technician and the Service Rep cause they simply dont know shit about the engine exept their commisions and paycheck each 15 days... that's sorry.

Well as for many of us we keep supporting each other with facts and better answers than Mazda Dealers.

I'm just upset that a good car such as a Rotary the dam manufacturer doesn't even care about it's constant misterous problems.

To be honest the rx8's are too small of a concentration of serviced vehicles at the dealer that people dont take the time to learn them. Find a dealer with a real rotary technician and you will realize how good mazda really is, can't say the same about the writer's as most dont understand cars in general, but a good mazda rotary tech is a gift. Also technicians don't make commission, at least the majority of us.

The people you talk to don't give you answers because you don't know who to talk to. If you go to a dealership that is lacking in rotary know-how it's generally easy to pickup on, obviously trying to find facts at that dealer will be useless. There's normally at least 1 dealer in the area with a good rotary tech, but there isn't one in all dealers....again because rx8s are low-volume compared to 3's and 6's and even the miatas.

As far as Mazda not giving a damn about the rotary....umm have you looked at the auto industry? Mazda is THE ONLY ONE who gives a damn about rotary, they fought tooth and nail to bring it BACK, they didnt plan the rx8, they were forced into the body of the vehicle. They had to meet ford's requirements in many areas. They took on those challenges all in the name of bringing rotary back into the world.

Mazda is constantly going thru rotary engine information, it's reoccuring problems are under constant attention, if the Renesis fails mazda knows the rotary engine will be over. The Mazda Of Japan loves the rotary, why do you think the only motor they're heavily invested in hybrid technology with is the Hydrogen Renesis? They have hybrid Tributes, only in CA, and running completely unchanged Ford Escape gear, mazda modified nothing except the interior and exterior.

You may act like you're some great rotary fan or whatever, but if you're going to publically call out mazda not caring about the rotary then you obviously know NOTHING about the rotary and what mazda has gone thru to keep it alive.

And so you know, when you run into a dealership who doesnt "know" how to fix your car, that doesnt mean mazda doesn't know how. The technicians who have pride in their work are the ones taking and saving all the info mazda has available, hell I've been part of the developments and release of TSB's. It's a long boring process but all that is done to specifically find the real problem, not a band-aid, altho the bandaid fix is always released immediately it winds up being a bigger fix then is needed and generally more expensive. Then lastly there's always "politics" behind when and how information is released. Personally those who are in contact and really doing there job (such as speaking to the rotary master tech from japan who was in the US visiting dealers for almost 3 years, even getting his visa extended to stay and be a valuable resource) have knowledge of problems that you won't hear about for months, the whole engine decarb and msp16 flash was available almost a full 3-4 months before it was announced as an actual TSB.

but i ramble on.... just giving you an insight to the fact that mazda and their techs care about the rotary more then most people you'll ever know, and some of us have seen things you won't see for a few more years.

kevin.

I wanted to echo thanks to John316G and Vyn for this post. It was key. I had the exact same symptoms, and took a lot of people's advice. I have an '04 with 55k. New plugs at 50k, new OEM coils and RB wires last week, new Optima Red Top last week (and I Fluked my battery and alternator), clean MAF, reset NVRAM and KAM, and it wouldn't go away. Last ditch was the Mazda Engine Cleaner and scrubbing everything I could find, and still no dice. Panic ensued.

When I finally broke down and got it to a dealer to read the CEL, it threw a p0506. My MAF was in good shape, and they singled out the IAC. Had to get a new throttle body. Super glad/lucky that I bought the extended warranty 4 years ago, but that's not the point of the whole story--it was to single out how instrumental this thread was for a few key reasons:

1. no matter how frustrating it got, I knew there would be a good, logical way to problem-solve it based on the work of people on this board.

2. it's good to hear about other people's dealership experiences. Dealerships are like ERs--most of us don't want to put control over our machines and pocketbooks in other people's hands. Knowing how to navigate and deal with that is necessary. This site is where I learned about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is total peace of mind.

Problem resolved. It runs so well right now, it blows my mind. Getting our engines fouled up is a slow, slippery slope. If I knew 20k miles ago what I know now, I would decarb my system every so often, scrub out my throttle body, get new coils preemptively, and take better care of my MAF.

p.s. I think this is my first post on this board. I come here all the time but never post because the quality of DIYs that I need is so good, I just learn what to do and it works. This community is really cool.

Good to hear you got your car running Domin8r and thanks for the compliment.
Its nice to hear that this forum has become such a wealth of knowledge and most problems can be described in detail by many experienced individuals who have encountered the same problems.
That is why I document and share my experiences with this forum... its a way of giving back and hopefully help someone else later on.

Sometimes the truth hurts
 

Okay Teknics,

Honestly the Mazda World needs more Techs as yourself that garantees knowledge, heart, commitment, and solid answers with durable questions of clients who infact today still dishonor the come back of the rotary engine in the RX8, but the reality us Mazda owners know that most of 80% of the certified technician with updated licenses can't solve the mystery of our cars, we all know the RX8 is not a common car as the Mazda3 or Mazda5, Mazda6, etc... hell the sales of each of those cars speaks for it's self, YOUR OPINION IS BASED ON AS A DEALER and not in the eyes of us the consumer.

How would you feel as a consumer which more than 50% of RX8 owners don't know exactly nothing about rotaries each time theres something wrong with the RX8 you receive boogus answers which has nothing to do with the problem, and as well keeps costing your pocket :banghead: when the answer can be found by someone who eventually chats often in this website. Hell there are even a few of us that take road trips and meet up with other experienced Rotary Mecanics to learn more about this car, but not all of us are connected to this community, each time I see a RX8 owner I tell them to search thru this website and you'll be amazed of things you can learn.

Honestly there's plenty people like myself who thank this website and it's users :) instead of a DEALER, I am not saying 100% of Mazda Techs are dum, but in the fact if you're a good mecanic then you shouldn't complain about your knowledge nor the people who complain about poor service,, As a certified Tech you are also limited to tell the client the truth and only assure he buys what you say the car needs profiting the DEALER at all times cause not even 10% of Salesperson knows exactly what's wrong in order to defend you and don't say this is FALSE,:banghead: Shit, some people can't handle the truth at some point and blow shit outta proportions.

Now back to reality, yes the Rotary engine dissapeared for rating, economic, safety, and possibly investment reasons most of us think we all know why or how come, that answer relies on many facts, yes FORD bought the Mazda but they eventually ended up as if BURGER KING now buys CHINESSE RESTAURANTS, we all know that Burgers & Fries is way diferent than Chicken Teriyaki or Sushi. :banghead:

The reputation of the RX7 yes indeed is still alive :)today in days and we thank each owner and Wise Mecanic for keeping them running and letting the world know that Rotary engines are to be respected.

Now what I don't think it's fair is that Ford assumes they did a great job after negotiating the come back of the Rotary Engine with a dam Renesis, and most of us owners cannot explain the reasons of the numerous failures the production of the Rx8 has cause to the consumers.

Think about it, it's like if MAZDA bought FORD and eventually MAZDA will come out with a new MUSTANG body, with new engine etc.. and when the car starts selling in the market people get all sorts of problems such as the RX8 because they simply put a Ford Focus engine into it. I think that's messed up but it is an example of what they did to the RX reputation.

So when you make comments defending the Mazda dealer, you defend all the Techs that Mazda has, try asking the consumers world wide how Mazda responds to their poor commitment of quality when eventually us as owners have to keep paying so much :rant: for simple answers and in many times Bullshit us with things that are not related to resolve the issue, Feel free to start a Thread or your own website to answer everyones problems with the RX8 :Eyecrazy: and you will eventually feel that you're alone:banghead:.

Rgds,
PRX8

I do understand bad dealerships, I've seen lots of places run in confusing ways. Unfortunately it seems all dealers do not live to make the customer happy, some target only profit. It sucks that they're out there but its like everything automotive, you tried to avoid the bad reputation places.
I guess im spoiled in seeing the lengths my dealership goes to ensure everyone leaves happy as long as they tell us the truth about the reason its being brought in and are willing to let us make sure everything is fair.

I think you need to understand Ford + Rotary = hatred. Seriously, mazda said "we want to make a rotary vehicle" ford thinks up a four door requirement and all other strict limits on what vehicle they can put a rotary in.

Ford doesn't want a rotary car, Mazda NAO doesnt really like rotaries either. Mazda Japan is the only one on the rotaries side.

The renesis was a closed door project, ford had little to no input on the engine, there is only 1 team of people capable in planning a rotary, they are all mazda engineers.

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I do not defend any dealership, dealerships are businesses, no two are identical. I will however defend Mazda Japan and it's amazing story of keeping the rotary engine alive in face of so many people trying to kill it from the outside. With ford now a smaller part of Mazda, they can now move forward with their REAL rotary projects, they no longer need fords ok.

kevin.

Good read, I'm having the same issues currently.

I can't wait to see what mazda does with the rotary in the coming time.

Hopefully not too late to kick off this thread again? Some amazing info in here and for that I am thankful! So with that let me dive in to whats going on with my car. I've been experiencing almost the exact same stalling symptoms with my car all summer. I just rebuilt the engine and street-ported it as well. The street port was done by RX7 specialties in Alberta and was done on a CNC. Before re-assembly i sent out my injectors to be flow tested and essentially rebuild, came back with an overall clean bill of health except i was told all 6 leak (which is noticeable on cold start but very minor leak) When i had the engine out i took apart the manifold and wire brushed the SSV bore and cleaned the valve itself extensively. the modifications list is as follows:

-CNC streetport
-Ported intake manifold runners
-Rebuild with all Mazda OEM Internals (side seals and corner seals ordered by rotor stampings)
-AEM intake
-BHR ignition coils
-MSD wires
-Racing beat headers
-BHR midpide (W/cat)
-TurboXS catback
-SOHN kit
-Mishimoto low temp thermostat
-Mishimoto Rad
-Mazmart upgraded water pump
-Mazmart 100Psi oil pressure regulator
-Racing beat oil cooler lines
and few more but nothing else I would deem necessary for this diagnostic. Spark plugs are brand new NGK laser iridium and o2 sensors are working fine. o2 sensors are both NTK.

SO, now this is my issue, the car has idle issues and i cant seem to find out what, I had a few vacuum leaks which have all now been sorted out however it still wont hold a proper idle. When cold it idles and was hunting slightly but nothing major . Once the water temps get up to around 95 degrees (Celsius) and I apply throttle then it just dies and doesn't even make an attempt to return to idle speed. I reset the PCM and did the relearn procedure and it helped the cold idle however its still not drive-able. When it does idle it holds 750 RPM pretty well.

I took it on the road and it had a pretty serious hesitation, made it to the end of my street and it stalled every time I put the clutch in. All sounding very similar to the bad SSV symptoms i was reading about earlier in this thread. The SSV actuator is making some noise however I believe its working. The one thing i have not checked yet (which I'm going to after I write this) is the SSV solenoid. Also I have compression tested and the new build has good compression so that's been ruled out. I was initially thinking the factory fuel map just cant keep up with it but now I'm beginning to lean on the SSV as the culprit. I have a spare manifold with a somewhat caked up SSV but nothing I cant clean, was told it was all working before. All that being said, I'm looking for some guidance I've nearly exhausted all my diagnostic capabilities, if I don't find the SSV solenoid to be faulty I'm not sure what else I might be up against. No codes present, currently sitting with the intake system completely removed with the exception of the LIM. Any help / suggestions are much appreciated, thanks everyone!

Just tested the SSV solenoid, works fine. Also forgot to mention fuel pressure is 55Psi