Power loss, then it died...
 

This is the first time I've had a problem with the car. It's a pretty hot day today (>90), and I was driving home. Car was warm, A/C on, about 30 minutes into my trip. I took off from a light (not real hard), and heard what almost sounded like a misfire or predetonation. I drove a few miles farther and was in my subdivision going up a hill, when I hear what almost sounded like a grating noise at around 4000 RPM. I turned the corner and came to a stop sign, and when I stopped, it died and won't start again. Seems like it's flooded. I'm going to let is sit for a while and cool off, and I'll try to start it again. Any idea what this might be?

Ironically, I called the dealership today to schedule an appointment for plug/filter change. I told him I'd also like them to fix my idle vibration problem, which I've been complaining about since 18K miles (I have 37K now). He asked what octane gas I've been using. I've used either 89 or 93 octane, but almost always 89. He said that will cause carbon build-up, rough idle, and stalls. The car has run well since I've had it, and I've never had it stall on me unitl today. I routinely take it to 9K rpm to avoid any carbon build-up problem. Is it possible that this problem is related to gas? Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere, but the unsophisticated search engine didn't help.

I'm going out to check on it, but will look for advice when I get back. Thanks, all.

i think your cat died

Just let them run a diagnostic on it.... I am taking my 8 in because the stupid ventilation system is broken and the heater is perm. on.

I had a very similar experience, what happened was the float in the gas tank got mis aligned, and I actually ran out of gas, but the gauge showed me at half.

Well, I went back out to the car after letting it sit about 30 minutes. I cranked it for about 6 seconds, and it started. There was no CEL, and it acted normal on the way to the house. I'm thinking it was somehow heat-related.

Zoom - I've been worried about the cat, because this is a 09/03 K-flash build.

Does anyone think I can call BS on the 89-octane? I have never had any power loss or hesitation problems with this car, even as recently as yesterday - it just goes like a bat outta hell.

I no longer have a warm fuzzy about the dealership - I had been dealing with a great service tech ever since I bought the car, and I found out today that he's no longer there. So this new guy gives me the instant phone diagnosis for my idle vibration problem, saying it must be my problem because I've been using 89-octane gas, causing carbon buld-up, yadda yadda. How does one accumulate carbon build-up when the car hits 9K RPM alt least 5 times per tankful?

Do you think I can call BS on the gas explanation?

Never give the dealer an out. They'll take it everytime.

I have been using 87 octane for the last 18,000 miles (26,000 total) with no issues, and I doubt your symptoms are a result of carbon build-up.

The Cat does not sound likely, as they seem to fail after a flood. You did not mention having a flooding issue prior to this incident, and you had no loss of power after startup.

Did you have any CEL? If not, my suspicion lies with the spark plugs, if they are original.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Dude, that just happened to me two weeks ago! After I got the car back on, I drove to the dealership. The ride was terrible let me tell you. Rough as hell! Turns out I just needed an oil change. Seems to be working fine now. I have a few blips here and there with the idle, but no harm done. I hope. :confused:

the gas issue is BS. octane is an indicator of how easy it is to ignite the fuel 89 is easier to ignite than 93. so you should be geting more complete combustion with the 89. but that doesnt mean there isnt some carbon build up. it just means its not from the lower octane gas.the amoun this car runs rich combined with an intially over working mop could easily have left some build up over time.

So when they say it is your problem, does that mean they do not want to cover it under warranty? If that is the case, jump up their ass. If 89 octane caused damage to your engine, then in the manual, and inside the fuel door, it would say "Premium Required". It only says Recommended inside the fuel door, and I believe it says the same thing in the manual. I thought it says you can use fuel with a lower octane than 91, but that you will have diminished performance. I don't care what a mechanic or service manager says, that manual is the "bible" and as long as you follow that, you're going to be okay in my opinion.

In fact I looked at the manual in my RX-8, and it says 87 octane or higher is required, 91 or higher is recommended for better performance.

So the tech is full of BS. They can't deny a warentee claim based on 87+ octane.

I'm not sure on the compression of the RX-8, but I know higher compression engines need higher octane gas.

the higher octane is recommended to help prevent knock/pre-detonation. if the computer senses a knock it will retard timing in order to prevent more. the change will also reduce performance hence the manuals wording about reducing performance. but the higher octane itself produces no performance benefit. in fact as i stated earlier since the hiher octane is more resistant to ignition, if the car is run alot at lower rpms then the carbon build up will occur sooner causing lower performance.

Thanks for the opinions. I also think the gas excuse is BS. I don't think they'd use it to avoid warranty work, bu they me use it to avoid looking for the real vibration problem, which I believe is related to something loose under the car or a a cracked engine mount.

With respect to the car dying, there was no CEL, but maybe it stored a code. I'll have them check it. BTW, the car drove just fine today, and it is in the 90's again, just like yesterday. Very weird.

Well, the exact same thing happened again yesterday. It was a very hot day, and I had been sitting in a lot of traffic. Same mettalic grinding sound and loss of power. I managed to get home, but I don't know what the hell is happening. It was fine today (although it was cooler out). I really think it has to do with high ambient temps.

Well, I had a very similar experience. Running 80 on interstate, 86 degrees and humid, four people in car, A/C running. I came off the interstate, slowed, downshifted, and tried to merge into traffic. NO POWER.

Let up on gas and merged in. Got to the next light and ran briskly through the gears. At 6000 in 3rd, I had a rattling, grinding sound. I let off. Got home and shut it down.

Could this be yet another set of examples of the MOP problem? With insufficient oil supply the seals will fail to seal properly and a loss of internal pressures will result, kinda like blown compression rings in a piston engine. Take a look at the Finish Line Performance website to see the MSP04 tech bulletin. I think it not only discusses noise and loss of power above 6,000 rpm's but it also mentions stalling while hot or coolant temp sensor problems. Something like that. Mazda is gonna be hurtin' if they don't get this stuff resolved.

CRH

they already are hurting, the latest polling just came out on manufacturer warranty claims and Mazda, while not the worst, is at the bottom of the list for number of claims per hundred vehicles

edit: tied for 2nd to last to be exact



Brand performance

J.D. Power's survey of 2005 car buyers found an industry average of 118 problems reported for every 100 vehicles. Here are the number of problems per 100 vehicles for each brand:

Above average

Lexus 81

Jaguar 88

BMW 95

Buick 100

Cadillac 104

Mercedes-Benz 104

Toyota 105

Audi 106

Infiniti 109

Hummer 110

Hyundai 110

Honda 112

GMC 113

Lincoln 113

Acura 116

Below average

Jeep 120

Mercury 120

Nissan 120

Chrysler 121

Chevrolet 127

Ford 127

Mitsubishi 129

Pontiac 129

Dodge 130

MINI 130

Scion 134

Saab 136

Saturn 136

Subaru 138

Kia 140

Volvo 140

Porsche 147

Volkswagen 147

Land Rover 149

Mazda 149

Suzuki 151

Source: J.D. Power and Associates.

Happens to me on hot days also. Going to the dealer in the a.m.

I wonder if there will be an epidemic - I was at the dealership this morning at 7:20AM, and I left at about 7:45. While I was there, 3 other RX-8s were dropped off. I would have asked what they were in for, but I was busy talking to some poor soul who was driving to Florida from San Diego with his wife and 2 kids to attend his father's funeral. His alternator went out somewhere in West Texas. He had to buy three batteries to get to San Antonio, where he thought he could get an alternator. I felt so bad for him - he said if he wasn't on the road by noon, he'd miss his dad's funeral.

they could have pulled one off an inventory car

Update - the service dept. called today asking for permission to do a 40-mile test drive. The guy said that Mazda Tech Line was requesting the test be performed and that data be collected, especially O2 sensor data. I'm not sure which problem this is meant to address - the hot temp loss of power and stalling, or the request I made that they check the cat because after the N flash I smelled rotten eggs for about 3 weeks. They did say they were going to replace my engine mount to hopefully fix my vibration problem.

Also, I woke up at 3 AM to the sound of hail - perfect time to have my car sitting at the dealership instead of in my garage...

Run around
 

Mazda needs some new tech' who can identify problems without guessing!! They never check or go through the car throughly. They just well it in and out!! And you call Mazda help line and get no help. They say it is up to the dealership.

Step up Mazda!

A prime example of relying too much on computers to do the thinking; if there is no CEL there must not be a problem.

CRH

Well, they drove the car 77 miles since I dropped it off. They collected data on it and sent it to tech line. Last thing tech line wants them to do is remove O2 sensor and check to see if cat might be breaking up.

BTW, I asked if they saved the plugs as I had requested. He said they were probably already packed up to be sent to Mazda. He said everything with the exception of liquids is sent back to Mazda for analysis and verification of warranty claim. He said he could go pull them out of shipping, but I told him not to bother.

I received the car back last Friday. They did not find any problem related to why it stalled on me. I am updated to P flash now, so I guess I'll just see what happens this summer. My mileage on my first tank since the P flash is the lowest I've had since I was breaking it in a year ago.

On the bright side, replacing the engine mount seems to have helped the vibration at idle somewhat, although it still exists. They also replaced the A/C amplifier for the second time, and the A/C performance is better than it has been.

I have been running 93 octane for the last couple of tankfuls, and I usually use 89. This may explain the crappy mileage - I have always gotten worse mileage from 93 than from 89.

Anyway, I'll give the dealership an A- for effort, although the results were not quite what I hoped for.

Simular problems
 

Ever since temperatures have been above 90+ degrees in PHX my car has had similar problems. After being on the freeway for 15 miles or so, with the AC on, my car losses power, to the point were I have had to pull off the freeway. I have had it in two dealerships a total of three times and the last time I left it for 5 days while I was on vacation and they put 350+ miles on it (they claim only 150 miles). The problem still exists and they say there is nothing they can do about it until Mazda comes out with a PCM update in a couple of months. That is insane. Am I supposed to just grin and bare it?

I hope you have better luck than I have had.

happened to me last night, it was hot out with alot of humidity. I was driving on the highway aNd then boom power loss and engine shut off, it would not start up at first and then my engine light was flashing. I pulled over and poped the hood didnt see anything ( a couple of days ago i had a major blow by with alot of oil in the intake system) well i start it up agian and i drive slowly in the right lane i try not to let the car idle becasue that is how it died at first. A couple of times the car shut off but went back on by itself. after that i go to the club and get home around 3:30 am.


I think the problem was i had a after market intake with a S&b filter, the filter was prob to small and did not give enough air during idle because of the high humidity

wow sorry to hear this guys, this is the first i've heard of this knda problem...i've thankfully never exsperianced it...knock on wood...i did live in Georgia (fort stewart) for the firtst year of the car's life...it got hot there with lots of humidity..but she ran like a champ.....but that was on the m flash...dunno if that has anythign to do with it.

hope everythign gets sorted out and fixed so you can enjoy your 8's :D

godevils or eclipso are you ATs?

6speed

eclpso it's your after market intake. It's a know problem. Do a search.

If you want a god intake, sell that pc of crap and get a Racing Beat Revi8 intake.

Mine is a 6 speed and it does not have an after market intake.

So Showcase Mazda in Phoenix had my car for 2 full days, then contacted my wife. They told her that they were fully aware of the problem, and that there would be yet another PCM reflash to fix the issue. They had to timetable for the reflash though, because it failed the EPA review the first time it was submitted.

They reccommended a stronger battery and an engine carbon flush, saying experience has shown this to help the condition. Since this was not the actual fix however, it would not be done under warranty. Sum total was like $190. This angered my wife, who then fought with Mazda NA until they agreeed to pay for it as a "goodwill" gesture.

With that stuff done, the car hasn't died yet. It has cooled off here a bit since the work was done, so time will tell. I can't believe they will just say "wait for the flash" for a condition that causes a car to unexpectedly lose power or stall. This can be very hazardous on the roadway. Mazda doesn't seem to be showing adequate concern for the safety of the drivers of it's flagship automibile.

If it's any consolation, I haven't had any funny stuff happen since I got mine back, although it hasn't been super-hot. Maybe the P flash made a difference. I've also been using only 93 octane for the last few tankfuls. Also, my mileage took a hit after the flash, but its back up to 20 again. Maybe it had to relearn a few things.

eclps0- intake. godevils- not sure but i dotn think it is the carbon problem the ATs are seeing. go rev the hell out of it and see if the problem returns:)

jerryf- they admitted there was a problem, suggested an temporary resolution but were going to charge you for it? WTF kind of nonsense is that? they have got to be out of their frikking minds- they are replacing engines BY THE DOZEN in texas but they want to charge you to clean one.

i found out the problem, it was the filter i was using, it was to small and had oil from the prevoius blow by of oil. also it was very humid outside.

Zoom44,
The engine was replaced last dec. and I try to redline it as much as I can without getting speeding tickets. The problem occurs during the heat of the day when temp. is above 95 degrees, also it is most notable when the AC is on, with is a must in Phoenix this time of year. Any other ideas would be helpful. Thanks.

Well, it was 108F today, and the car ran flawlessly. The bigger battery / carbon flush combination therapy seems to have helped a lot. I am quite sure it would have died on me today if that hadn't been done.

Anyone in PHX having this problem should insist on the bigger battery and a carbon flush. If they want you to pay for it (like they tried to make me do), call MAZDA NA and scream at them until they pony up. The car is truly unsafe to drive with unexpected poer loss/stall.

All that being said, I hope to heck I'm not back on here tomorrow posting about how it died again. I was truly surprised at how well it ran today. I was expecting it to die, because it is HOT today.

zoom44- I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was crazy! When it was on my dime, they were like THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE THE CAR DRIVABLE. Once we inquired why it wasn't covered under warranty (<24k miles, BTW) they were like WELL, IT'S REALLY ONLY A SUGGESTION.

I recently had to remove my battery and check some connectors for the APV and MOP harnesses. When I reinstalled the battery I decided to just rag the Hell out of the engine and it seems to run better after having done that, alomost as if some of the carbon has blown out(?). I will try the carbon cleaning idea as soon as I am able. Thanks for the info.

CRH

I remember speaking last year of how damn hot the engine bay gets(rotory curse) in the summer. Is it possible that the car is going into a fail safe mode? Sure cant trust the instrumentation.
just a thought. I m sure when the car is checked that would show.
olddragger

It was hot today in Phoenix, 113F. And the car died again today. Stalled 3X. The worst yet. The way it ran the other day (see above) I really thought that things were OK. They are not. The car is primarily driven by my wife in mucho downtown traffic, and is simply unsafe to operate. I was so stoked when we bought this car, it was the coolest car on the road in my opinion. Now the thought of another trip to the dealer turns my stomach. It's going in on a hook this time, as I don't trust the car to make it across town anymore. What should have been an awesome ownership experience is being ruined.

I wonder if you have some fuel vapor lock going on. That's a distinct possibility.

from http://type2.com/bartnik/pump.htm

Got the car back today. They replaced the catalytic convertor. They said that they never got it to stall, but it did lose power on a freeway test drive. They also threw in the "abuse" allegation, saying that the heat shield was ripped off the convertor. Keep in mind that the last time they gave me the car back, the front undertray was hanging off the car. So I am abusing it??? I am afraid not. Then they told me that I can only run 92 octane Chevron gas from now on. There is a Chevron station by where I work, but that is a little ridiculous.

We'll see if the new CAT fixes it or not. I doubt it will. Otherwise they'd be replacing them by the dozen in TX, not engines. They stand firm that my problem is unrelated to the engine issues experienced primarily in TX. So we shall see.

Well, I've been away from my baby for for a couple of weeks now, on vacation in Wisconsin. I'ts really hot in Texas now, so I'm looking forward to getting back and seeing how mine behaves in the severe hot weather. The only thing they did (to my knowledge) was reflash me to the 'P' version. They supposedly tested my cat and said it was fine. Keep us posted, jerryf, I'll be following your case closely.

Sounds like that new CAT will work.

There is obvioulsy a problem with high air temp. I have been having the same problem since the temps have gotten up there in North Florida. I thought it may have something to do with the K&N Typhoon intake so I took it off, to no avail. BTW I don't like the K&N anyway, the car runs better on the stock intake system.
I had it to the dealer after the first problem and they could find nothing, but of course they checked it in the morning during cool temps.
Now, check this out, it happened the second time in the same spot, out on the highway!?
I was in a low area on an expressway and, both times, the outside air temp was near 100. It loses power, rattles like it is detonating and basically will barely run. It was on the 4th so no dealer open and I continued toward home at the coast. The closer to the coast I got, the lower the outside air temp and the better it ran again. By the time I was near my home, the temp was down to 85 and it ran great. On the way to the dealer after the last episode (PM -July 5, 97 degrees) I had to shift down to fourth gear to maintain 60 MPH going over a bridge. It would also not maintain speed going over simple overpasses. The biggest problem is the only 8 tech at the dealer just returned from 2 weeks vacation and they can't even look at the car until the 12th.
After the first episode there were no codes. I at least got to talk to the tech, a very good guy who really cares about his job, and explained exactly what it was doing and it was definitely related to outside air temp.
Even though I chocked it up to high altitude, it did the same thing last summer on our vacation. We were in Montana going through the mountains and the temp was 101. I canceled going further into nowhere land because I was afraid to go farther away from a dealer. We went south from that day and the temps were not nearly as hot. We had no further troubles on the trip.
Even though I have little time to come on the forum, I'll try to get back to tell you what is found. I will also contact my poeple at Mazda North America and see if I can get through to a tech person to see if they are aware of the problem. Just being aware doesn't mean they will have a solution.

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mazda North America. My contact is in purchasing but she keeps abreast of what's going on. She couldn't have the head tech guy call me back because he's in Phoenix.
The current situation is that MNAO and Mazda - Japan are aware of the problem. The big problem is they are having one hell of a time identifying what is actually causing the problem. They have a team of people from MNAO and Japan in Phoenix and another in Dallas working on the problem.
I know patience is a virtue that's tough, but they have every asset available working on the problem. Your dealer is not at fault, even though most tend to come across as uncaring and always look for a chance to claim "not warrantee."
The teams have tried several things which have seemed to work but then it comes back.
I've worked with Mazda engineers (transmission division) for nearly twelve years, and beleive me, I've never worked with people more dedicated to the good name of their company. They will find and fix the problem.
My contact suggested asking you guys to ALL call Dealer Assistance Group and complain about this problem, the squeekier the wheel, the more priority will be put on it.
That number is (877)727-6627

Kurt

Wrong number^