Power Loss Solved
04-27-2006, 02:01 PM
#1
Power Loss Solved
I have owned my 8 since August of 2003. Was ready to buy one when the 8 was refered to as the Evolve. I am about to turn 50k. Around 30k, my car started acting up. Big power loss when driving over an hour a day. I am talking about major power loss. Fans would run for 30 minutes after shutdown. My cup holders were cup warmers. My truck was a toaster oven. I am aware that rotaries have fought heat from birth. No CEL either. There are a bunch of threads that have the same issue. I can almost bet your CAT is gone.
Getting rid of the car has or never will be my option, unless its is wrecked. Contacted Mazda North America several times, which I recomend. Took the car to Memphis dealerships and Jackson dealership. The dealers have not a clue. Told me to bring it by when it was acting up. Did that. Nothing. I started feeling like I was crazy. Maybe its something I have done? No.
New intake, new plug wires, new clutch, new pressure plate, new flywheel, new plugs, reflashes to CPU, different gas. and repeated resets to both memory banks.
As hard as I tried, the more it became more of an issue. For starters, my gas mileage was dropping to 180-200 miles a tank. All these parts I am throwing on are physicaly more effecient than a stock 8.
The dealer at one point ruled out the CAT. This is after telling them I heard a leak from exhaust somewhere. Nothing.
About a week ago, I jacked my car up high enough to take a gander at the exhaust system. Did you know the CAT is the lowest point in ride height? Did you know the parts inside the CAT are very delicate? There was some battle damage. I ordered a midpipe that moment. This was the only thing left before giving up on the hunt.
Son. Not only did I solve the problem, but I got a bad *** car. This thing will freakin move man. No CEL after 600 miles.
When you shake the CAT, you can hear bits and pieces inside. It is a two stage CAT. The sensor is between the two. If the Aft section goes, no CEL. Mazda will not address this. So I had to take it in my own hands.
Its hard to say what kind of gas mileage the car gets. It just wants to tumble those rotars. I am getting way better than I ever have. I bet she could go to 275-300 a tank.
Try cleaning your MAF sensor first. Run some octane boost. If that does not solve it. I would really consider looking at your CAT.
04-27-2006, 02:07 PM
#2
Congrats on having the car run better now man. I noticed that the cat is very low as well. I didn't think much of it at the time but now It sounds like a cuase for concern. Whenever I pass inspection, I might just slap on a midpipe myself 
.
.
04-27-2006, 02:08 PM
#3
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50,000 miles on your RX-8 and only 2 posts? You must be a man of few words in spite of this fairly long post.
Your CAT should have been a warranty item - might have saved you some bucks to get the dealer to replace it. They wouldn't even consider it?
Your CAT should have been a warranty item - might have saved you some bucks to get the dealer to replace it. They wouldn't even consider it?
04-27-2006, 02:15 PM
#4
It is true. Not many posts. I have been observing this site for a long time. I think about how many people are like myself. How many people are having the same trouble that don't look at this site?
04-27-2006, 03:35 PM
#5
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even though i have few posts also i feel the pain we all have with our cars.we love them when there good and hate them when they act up!!(SOUNDS LIKE MY KIDS!)ok i will try the short version.bought the car 04/26/041.the gas mileage went down the tubes after about 8,000 miles.
2.took the car in -reflashed
3.hard starting at times after about a 20 mile run.reflashed again new plugs.
4.still hard starting battery went dead after 5 trys.giving beak between starts(had to jump it with jump box from work)
5.went to dealer they charged me pro rate($50.00) for new battery.
6.head lights replaced (water and condensation)
7.then the rear tail lamps (same thing)
8.cat replaced after i told the tech. to drive it like his rx7(he said it ran like sh-iced tea)
9.oil light when level was full(new oil pan w/sensor
10.cup holder cover was replaced two times(wro)
11.18,000 miles the tranmission went out with a gridiing noise so bad mazda did not want the dealer to fix it they just replaced the tranny.(clutch and pressure plate,and bearing no signs of abuse)wro also
12.since all these things have happened at different times the last two years i don't know why i still love this car so much!!i quess unlike my wife the car will not give me a bunch of bs about the way i drive(quick and out the way of a-holes)i tried granny shifting,staying under 70 mph on the highway the mileage stays the same 180-200 per tank 50% highway 50%city.all in all i will not let this car go.the only mods i have are the ms exhaust and k&n drop in filter.(engine mods)i do all my oil changes since the dealer keeps over filling at oil changes.tires,trans,radiator,brakes,diff.fluid,all been changed by me with no problems so far(everything recorded)
13.new windshield(rocks from our friendly truckers)
at 27,000 miles the gas still sucks but i know i bought a sports car but as some of you know we sometimes get what we pay for even if i don't part out with the car. just hopes it improves over time!
04-27-2006, 05:21 PM
#6
I phoned MNA and requested an address from them. I wanted to send them my CAT, because the dealers are a waste of time. The owe me money. I am spending my time trouble shooting thier issues. They would not give me one, so I am going to find a dealer in Nashville, and ship it to them. MNA claimed that they depend on thier dealers for any issues.
Mazda offered me to buy my car back or give me free oil changes and tire rotation every 2500 miles. I took the car. I bought it 2 days before that deal was over. My guess is, there is 250 at flywheel. They made mixture changes to lower engine temp. To do so you make it rich. The engine may cool, but the CAT is lit. You are fueling the CAT cell in a rich enviroment. Well if there is any damage to the CAT, heat will conduct from CAT to header and header to the block. When the ECU see's high temp, it just keeps increasing mixture to cool the engine. That is just making it worse for the CAT. If the o2 was tripped it could prevent this.
The ECU runs everything on the car by using sensors. If the second section fails, the ECU has no idea. All it see's is that the temps are increasing. The ECU is going into some type of SAFE mode. When it does that, you know it. You don't have the power to outrun a Corolla. I found it to be a big downer.
Without a doubt my car was down 25% in power before the CAT reached critical mass. The hotter the CAT got the less power the motor had.
I have a K and N Typhoon. It was very loud until I put the midpipe on. Now, you can't hear it all until 7k. It was back pressure. It like a blower/vac. If you block the blower side, you will hear backpressue on the vac side. Same principal.
My trunk is cool, my drinks stay cool. If you see the recalls, they put heat sheilding right above the CAT. Guess where your cup holder is? Yep, right over the CAT. We have had 4 days above 90 since I did replacement on CAT. My fan has come on twice, for less than a minute.
Easy fix, if you ask me. The car put out way more heat than a 4 stroke does. Placement can go further back. The car will shoot flames out the back. So you should be able to move the CAT to the rear. Put it right before exhaust. Plenty of heat to lite that ceramic up. The heat would not conduct back up to the header. This will prevent the ECU from making false mixture settings in error.
Thants where I am heading. I am not throwing a CEL on a midpipe now. Ok, just Fab in a CAT in the muffler section.
I do have a baseline on performance. I tangled with a Dodge Ram RT v10 on I-40 twice. I was in front on start both times. Both times we were already rolling at lest 80. The first time I was running the bad CAT. The only thing I saw was a Dodge grill in my rear view. I almost looked down to see if the key was turned off. Never could shake him up to 130 or so. The second time, same start out as last time. But that grill kept getting smaller and smaller, until I hit my governer at 149. He was about 50 feet around 130. at 149 he was about 200 feet. Love it. I think the car runs on crack.
Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hide is a good way to describe this car now. I can not imagine what the interceptor x will do on top of this.
I welcome any challangers. I lookin for that STI that dusted my butt a month ago. It is such a role reversal from what I am used to. I am was workin mass *** off to keep pace. Now, its just a totally different car. I feel like Mad Max.
Mazda offered me to buy my car back or give me free oil changes and tire rotation every 2500 miles. I took the car. I bought it 2 days before that deal was over. My guess is, there is 250 at flywheel. They made mixture changes to lower engine temp. To do so you make it rich. The engine may cool, but the CAT is lit. You are fueling the CAT cell in a rich enviroment. Well if there is any damage to the CAT, heat will conduct from CAT to header and header to the block. When the ECU see's high temp, it just keeps increasing mixture to cool the engine. That is just making it worse for the CAT. If the o2 was tripped it could prevent this.
The ECU runs everything on the car by using sensors. If the second section fails, the ECU has no idea. All it see's is that the temps are increasing. The ECU is going into some type of SAFE mode. When it does that, you know it. You don't have the power to outrun a Corolla. I found it to be a big downer.
Without a doubt my car was down 25% in power before the CAT reached critical mass. The hotter the CAT got the less power the motor had.
I have a K and N Typhoon. It was very loud until I put the midpipe on. Now, you can't hear it all until 7k. It was back pressure. It like a blower/vac. If you block the blower side, you will hear backpressue on the vac side. Same principal.
My trunk is cool, my drinks stay cool. If you see the recalls, they put heat sheilding right above the CAT. Guess where your cup holder is? Yep, right over the CAT. We have had 4 days above 90 since I did replacement on CAT. My fan has come on twice, for less than a minute.
Easy fix, if you ask me. The car put out way more heat than a 4 stroke does. Placement can go further back. The car will shoot flames out the back. So you should be able to move the CAT to the rear. Put it right before exhaust. Plenty of heat to lite that ceramic up. The heat would not conduct back up to the header. This will prevent the ECU from making false mixture settings in error.
Thants where I am heading. I am not throwing a CEL on a midpipe now. Ok, just Fab in a CAT in the muffler section.
I do have a baseline on performance. I tangled with a Dodge Ram RT v10 on I-40 twice. I was in front on start both times. Both times we were already rolling at lest 80. The first time I was running the bad CAT. The only thing I saw was a Dodge grill in my rear view. I almost looked down to see if the key was turned off. Never could shake him up to 130 or so. The second time, same start out as last time. But that grill kept getting smaller and smaller, until I hit my governer at 149. He was about 50 feet around 130. at 149 he was about 200 feet. Love it. I think the car runs on crack.
Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hide is a good way to describe this car now. I can not imagine what the interceptor x will do on top of this.
I welcome any challangers. I lookin for that STI that dusted my butt a month ago. It is such a role reversal from what I am used to. I am was workin mass *** off to keep pace. Now, its just a totally different car. I feel like Mad Max.
04-27-2006, 06:12 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by turbine
About a week ago, I jacked my car up high enough to take a gander at the exhaust system. Did you know the CAT is the lowest point in ride height? Did you know the parts inside the CAT are very delicate? There was some battle damage. I ordered a midpipe that moment. This was the only thing left before giving up on the hunt.
04-28-2006, 09:25 AM
#8
When I say battle damage, I mean scrapes and dents. You gotta look from underbelly. It would not take very much to damage it if was red hot. Look under you car next time you drive it. If you see thermals from your CAT, it is bad or getting there. The problem is with the mixture being to rich. When I removed it, thats when I heard all the parts inside.
04-29-2006, 04:05 AM
#11
Originally Posted by XRX8X
even though i have few posts also i feel the pain we all have with our cars.we love them when there good and hate them when they act up!!(SOUNDS LIKE MY KIDS!)ok i will try the short version.bought the car 04/26/041.the gas mileage went down the tubes after about 8,000 miles.
2.took the car in -reflashed
3.hard starting at times after about a 20 mile run.reflashed again new plugs.
4.still hard starting battery went dead after 5 trys.giving beak between starts(had to jump it with jump box from work)
5.went to dealer they charged me pro rate($50.00) for new battery.
6.head lights replaced (water and condensation)
7.then the rear tail lamps (same thing)
8.cat replaced after i told the tech. to drive it like his rx7(he said it ran like sh-iced tea)
9.oil light when level was full(new oil pan w/sensor
10.cup holder cover was replaced two times(wro)
11.18,000 miles the tranmission went out with a gridiing noise so bad mazda did not want the dealer to fix it they just replaced the tranny.(clutch and pressure plate,and bearing no signs of abuse)wro also
12.since all these things have happened at different times the last two years i don't know why i still love this car so much!!i quess unlike my wife the car will not give me a bunch of bs about the way i drive(quick and out the way of a-holes)i tried granny shifting,staying under 70 mph on the highway the mileage stays the same 180-200 per tank 50% highway 50%city.all in all i will not let this car go.the only mods i have are the ms exhaust and k&n drop in filter.(engine mods)i do all my oil changes since the dealer keeps over filling at oil changes.tires,trans,radiator,brakes,diff.fluid,all been changed by me with no problems so far(everything recorded)
13.new windshield(rocks from our friendly truckers)
at 27,000 miles the gas still sucks but i know i bought a sports car but as some of you know we sometimes get what we pay for even if i don't part out with the car. just hopes it improves over time!
ju would like to see how it was handled..
beers
04-29-2006, 09:35 AM
#12
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all the work i did was either at home or the dealership where i work.there is no labor charges at all.
i have the bills for the parts and fluid only with the miles on them when i did the work.
this is the only thing the dealer needs to prove the work was done.
i have over 30 years of car history except for the rotory which needs to a little t.l.c.
oil and filter are to easy to mess up.just make sure you don't over fill it.fill then check.start it up to make sure the filter do's not leak,check the level again to be sure it's full that's it browns mazda has a record as well as i for all the work they did.i only told them what was needed and they took care of the problem.sometimes they need some proof of the problem they can't seem to find like the cat problem they needed to road test the car with someone who knows how the car should run.this is what got the work done .as far as the transmission they took out the drain plug and found metal shavings in the oil and mazda hot line told them to ship back the trans with no repairs so they can find out what went wrong.so far i only get a missed gear on high(7500-8000 rpm)regardless of the way the clutch is depressed fully or not.it's not worn down and will not slip so i am not driving it hard to make this happen again.i am just taking it easy and loving the ride!!
04-29-2006, 09:55 AM
#13
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most of the times i went to the dealer to say the mpg is poor they say that the wds found no problem with the car(no cels present)they have changed my plugs three times and have reprogamed my ecu.(they showed no proof of the reflash or even put a sticker under the hood that most people get with a reflash and could not or would not tell me which one they did!)so all in all i say if its not really broke don't let them mess with it.i now think i might get a extended wro to cover the trans and engine most other things that go wrong i can do myself.as far as the headlights and taillamps it did not take a rocketman to see there were no damage to the lights but water found it's way inside and so did a few bugs!!i do not have the time to ask them over and over again about the $50 prorate they charged me for a weak battery i just told them lesson learned and you won't see me for the stupid stuff again.after i had this done good ol mazda had a tsb about batteries and hard starting.i did get the new faster turning starter so i am happy for that and the new plugs they replaced saying that they are the new style hot plugs(whatever!!)it runs good and the hard starting problem is history so i just drive and enjoy my car!!!!
04-29-2006, 03:17 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by turbine
I phoned MNA and requested an address from them. I wanted to send them my CAT, because the dealers are a waste of time. The owe me money. I am spending my time trouble shooting thier issues. They would not give me one, so I am going to find a dealer in Nashville, and ship it to them. MNA claimed that they depend on thier dealers for any issues.
Mazda R&D
1421 Reynolds Ave.
Irvine, CA, 92614
04-30-2006, 09:39 PM
#16
DMP, your telling me that the DSC fully off will bypass governor. My 8 is on the upswing when it stops at 149. DSC is on most of the time. Usually I am minding my own business on the freeway. Did not ever think to Hold the DSC for top end.
05-03-2006, 10:02 PM
#18
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by turbine
DMP, your telling me that the DSC fully off will bypass governor. My 8 is on the upswing when it stops at 149. DSC is on most of the time. Usually I am minding my own business on the freeway. Did not ever think to Hold the DSC for top end.
I am not telling you that at all - I'm telling you the car runs to redline in 6th with no wind resistance.
05-03-2006, 11:03 PM
#19
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Would engine pinging/rattling noises be caused by a bad cat? Would replacing the midpipe solve it?
I have no power loss, but just a ringing sound when I hit 7500 RPMs, and it goes away at about 8000. Dealer says it's normal....it's obviously not normal if my rx8 is one of the few that does it.
I have no power loss, but just a ringing sound when I hit 7500 RPMs, and it goes away at about 8000. Dealer says it's normal....it's obviously not normal if my rx8 is one of the few that does it.
05-07-2006, 08:52 PM
#20
jason@rx7store.net is your answer.
05-08-2006, 04:29 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by turbine
I phoned MNA and requested an address from them. I wanted to send them my CAT, because the dealers are a waste of time. The owe me money. I am spending my time trouble shooting thier issues. They would not give me one, so I am going to find a dealer in Nashville, and ship it to them.
Unless you're saying the cat went bad due to road damage -- not sure from your post. If cat's demise was your fault then I guess there's no point, other than the dealer's mechs are clueless.
05-10-2006, 04:04 PM
#23
Noise will be a secondary sign of trouble. Power Loss is the first. It will happen when the engine reaches operatonal temp. When the car starts reaching that temp, the ECU will richen the mixture. When that happens your CAT will heat up. Its like a tug of war. Increasing the mixture to rich will reduce exhaust gas temps. On the other hand the rich mixture will heat the CAT. Over time your CAT will fatigue. The CAT is the lowest point in ride clearance. If something hits the CAT while in overtemp, it would shatter the internals very easy. The damage on My CAT is not breaching the shell. Thier are scrapes and minor dings. Once it was off, I shook it. It sounded like a rocks inside of a can.
I have put at least 1k miles on it. No CEL. Does not stink that bad. I exteded my tips out past the bumper with 3.5 chrome tips. I am getting 22+ in the city. Two weeks before 12+.
The reason for a CAT being positioned off the header is for heat purposes. It needs to heat up the ceramic. There is enough heat at the tips to put a CAT on at the tips. Two weeks after I put the midpipe on, the tips are already turning color. Chrome, not stainless.
I am going to try fabing a CAT under the trunk. Split off from there to the mufflers. Don't know which one. Just need it to be light and quite. I could not imagine what it would sound like with a aftermarket CAT back on. It is loud as hell at WOT. Daily driving provokes others. When I just cruise around it sounds like other cars would at heavy throttle.
I really enjoy watching cars in my rear view mirror become small. It is a total role reversal. Remember my car started this at 36k, and gradually got worse. I am just over 50K.
I have put at least 1k miles on it. No CEL. Does not stink that bad. I exteded my tips out past the bumper with 3.5 chrome tips. I am getting 22+ in the city. Two weeks before 12+.
The reason for a CAT being positioned off the header is for heat purposes. It needs to heat up the ceramic. There is enough heat at the tips to put a CAT on at the tips. Two weeks after I put the midpipe on, the tips are already turning color. Chrome, not stainless.
I am going to try fabing a CAT under the trunk. Split off from there to the mufflers. Don't know which one. Just need it to be light and quite. I could not imagine what it would sound like with a aftermarket CAT back on. It is loud as hell at WOT. Daily driving provokes others. When I just cruise around it sounds like other cars would at heavy throttle.
I really enjoy watching cars in my rear view mirror become small. It is a total role reversal. Remember my car started this at 36k, and gradually got worse. I am just over 50K.
