Bonesy

EDIT: I realise now this is in the wrong forum.Many apologies my eyes sting from reading

Yes i have searched and searched the forums and to be honest,They need a damn good clean! Too many posts where people say the problem,Get flamed abused and told to search. I have searched now for 2 hours and noticed alot of people ask for the freeze frame data..

My CEL Code is P0171 - System too lean

Thinking of taking the SSV out tomorrow as she did have oil in the intake.


================================================== =======
Freeze Frame Data

Vehicle VIN: JMZSE*******22561
Vehicle Manufacturer: Mazda
Vehicle Calibration ID: N3ZHEC00013H6F10

Freeze frame information:
------------------
Engine Load = 33.725 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 84 °C
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term = 25%
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term = 0.781%
Engine RPM = 875.75 rpmSpeed (OBD) = 0 km/h
Timing Advance = 17.5 °
Intake Air Temperature = 38 °C
Mass Air Flow Rate = 5.32 g/s
Throttle Position(Manifold) = 13.333 %
Fuel Level (From Engine ECU) = 55.294 %
Barometric pressure (from vehicle) = 14.359 psi
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1,Sensor 1) = 472.7 °C
Voltage (Control Module) = 13.828 V
Engine Load(Absolute) = 22.353 %
Commanded Equivalence Ratio = 0.996
Relative Throttle Position = 3.137 %
Absolute Throttle Position B = 30.588 %
Accelerator PedalPosition D = 32.549 %
Accelerator PedalPosition E = 21.569 %

End of report.
================================================== =======

Had new plugs,Coils,Leads,Oil,Filter.
Fitting a BHR Walbro pump tomorrow to try and sort the problem.
When i start it up it idles fine, Let it warm and give some throttle stalls, Slowing down from 30+mph stalls unless i keep the revs going down slowly. Also hesitates from 4000-4500rpm then again from 5500-6000rpm then is fine after?

Any ideas? Flame/Hate/Abuse all you want

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

My bet is a vacuum leak. Fuel trims are fawked. Search Noob.

Bonesy

Thats the thing that keeps popping up in all the threads i have trolled! Any idea how to check? I thought about lighting a big fat cuban cigar and blowing smoke around pipes to see? Any other (safer) ideas?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, that's a vacuum leak. Your short term fuel trim at idle should be 0%. The ECU is adding 25% more fuel because it's seeing a lean condition at the O2 sensor, which is because it's getting more air than the MAF is seeing, which is air getting to the engine other than past the MAF.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Geesh man, do they not have Google in the UK?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Moved to Troubleshooting.

There are numerous methods of checking for a leak. Smoking the system, spraying carb cleaner around possible leak points (engine changes when it sees the sudden inrush of "fuel" as it sucks in the carb cleaner through the leak point), and still others. Google around for "how to find a vacuum leak". Doesn't have to be RX-8 specific.

Bonesy

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou i cant Thankyou enough! Thanks for moving the post too :-)
I'll do a vacuum check tomorrow morning first thing! I must say these forums are much better than the UK ones, Asked a question on one and got told "It's in the members section, Sign up and you can see it" (at a cost of £32) Do you have a donate part? I'd like to contribute something at least!

Yes we have google but i want sure if it needed to be done differently to piston engines.Didn't fancy "Winging it" on my new toy lol

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No donate section, the forum is funded by the ads you see (and owned by Internet Brands).

I'll give you my Paypal though

Bonesy

I'll get clicking some ads then! Many thanks again guys If it does indeed work ill delete the thread to help keep forums "Clean"

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No need to delete it. I don't recall any other vacuum leak threads that provided the freeze frame data so clearly. Could be useful for anyone else searching.

Let us know if we were correct, and I'll adjust the thread title to reflect it to improve it's chances of showing up on future searches.

Edit:
And make sure you reset your fuel trims after fixing the leak (if we were correct). Search for "20-brake pedal stomp" method It's going to be a bit of a rough idle at first, and may still stall out a time or two due to the reset (though can be prevented). If you drive it around in varying gears, speeds, loads for a few 10-minute sessions with turning off the car in between, it should re-learn the trims quite quickly and smooth the idle out.

Bonesy

Ok I won't delete :-) I happened to pull the freeze frame on my phone and saved it.Hated how messy it looked so edited it first.I was gonna have a lie in on my day off but gonna get up early now to use a mate's garage (torrential rain and I'm not a fan of it) but if it works ill be sure to let you know.
So for future reference....If I have problems and want to askere,I should pull all the info I can off of the ECU and post it up, also putting it in the right forum lol

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

In general, yes, the more information you can provide the better. Even if it's information that is "normal", it helps to rule out things. Like your voltage is good, but if it was bad then it would suggest a different reason.

zoom44

what app are you using?

Bonesy

Torque for android and I have scanmaster ELM 2.7 with a bt obd2 reader

Bonesy

Right so i tried to find it with carb cleaner but dont have a clue what areas to try? Any tips to find it? Not sure whats vac and whats not

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Check the two little nipples on the lower intake manifold on the drivers side (for you in the UK), they often get knocked off and fall off. Other than that the intake area is the best place to check and the vacuum hoses on and around the upper intake manifold. Just get in there start tracing each vacuum hose.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Basically, any air flow into the intake stream AFTER the MAF is a vacuum leak. The MAF is on top of the accordion tube between the throttle body and the air box. So starting there, check every point where pieces join. This includes accordion to throttle body, throttle body to UIM, UIM to LIM, every single vacuum line leading off of it, and at both ends of each hose (there are ones down behind it too). Yes, it's going to be quite a pain getting to most of them.

When I had a vacuum leak, I couldn't find it with the carb cleaner method either, and ended up removing my entire intake tract from the UIM (the large black plastic section leading from the left side to the throttle body) to the air box. That's when I found that when I had last removed it, I had just barely pinched one of the orange gaskets between the UIM and LIM. I could see the deformation on the gasket, and you could see the discoloration from the oil vapors (that like to hang around the intake) on the UIM flange at the pinch point. My STFT was only off about 5% though, so your leak is likely quite a bit worse than mine was. Possibly a cracked or loose vacuum hose (again, could be either end of any of the hoses)


Yeah, they can be a big pain to find.

Bonesy

9krpmrx8 I presume that the nipple is brass and the cover is rubber? One of mine has no nipple cover n the other does?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Bingo, that's your leak.

Yes, the nipple cover is a little rubber cap.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

There should be rubber vacuum caps on both of these.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/7171372876/

zoom44

thanks

Bonesy

Fixed the problem! After 60 miles of driving,no fault codes and as smooth as butter through the range.I tried to pull a freeze frame log when I ran it but it now says no log found. I'm truly greatful for the help off of everyone.Thanks

Just a note,I bought an ELM 327 off of eBay for 10 pounds.it comes with software for android,windows and I think iPhone and Mac and is a godsend

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Side note:
I use Torque as well (mostly for my Miata, since I have the AP for the 8), and you should be able to watch live information, same points as the freezeframe data.

Bonesy

Looking on the CobbAP Website they don't list it as functional with the 8? Not that i can see anyway,covers the Mazda 3 and 6.Maybe its just UK Crap

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

In... 2010? COBB ceased all support for all naturally aspirated cars. Even the 3 and the 6 are only there because of the Speed3/Speed6 variants.

Mazdamaniac worked out a deal with COBB to become the sole retailer for the RX-8's AP, since a large part of his business was based on that. I believe he is still in business, though he was banned from the forums a few months ago due to vendor issues unrelated to the AP.