jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Hey all,

Well I had another issue with my 8 not starting today.


I was signing a lease for a new apartment and came back out the parking lot to start my 8.

I cranked it for about 30 seconds and it just did not want to start. I figured I had flooded it somehow so I followed the procedure and after about 15 minutes of foot to the floor and cranking for 30 seconds at a time, it started. I could see the RPMs on the tach blip up and down a bit, but wouldnt start.

regardless, I got it to start and it ran normally but I got a P0336 CEL code that didnt go off. It said "Crankshaft Placement Sensor A CKT Range/Perf"


The only thing that I have changed recently on this car is the starter. I upgraded about 3 days ago to an N3R3 starter from a 2009 R3.

My car is a 2005GT. The starter has been working fabulous these past 3 days, and even when it wouldnt start, it sounded like it was cranking fast as hell.

The starter is unrelated to this problem right? Like a compatability issue?

Because this problem really has come out of nowhere. I havent had much of anything besides standard ignition issues.

I redlined the s*** out of it on the way home, and turned the car off in my driveway. I said for craps and giggles I'd try starting it again to see if it was a fluke. It didnt start. same thing. I only tried cranking it one time though because I didnt wanna destroy anything if theres a problem.


Any ideas guys?

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

you could try cleaning the ess

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

I will try this. I am going to try swapping the starter back as well. Regardless of how good this thing works, I really thinks that it may be the thing possibly causing the issue. Only reason I say that is someone in another thread said it was their starter.

And this literally came out of nowhere. Ignition is completely up to speed, and the starter is the only thing that has been recently swapped, with another year's model.

Ill try cleaning the ESS as well. I'll look for a DIY.

But my question is, some ppl the code said "ESS sensor"

Mine says Crankshaft sensor. Isnt that like a pretty major component of the vehicle for their to be an issue with?

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

Its a small sensor on the front of the engine. Search around, you'll find plenty of details on how to clean it. Also look around for the "brake pedal stomp" ESS reset procedure.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The crankshaft position sensor for a piston engine (which the ODB2 reader assumes you have) is the same as an e-shaft position sensor for a rotary. Both operate on exactly the same principle, just a magnet that sits near the main pulley. When a little nub on the pulley passes the sensor, the magnetic signal fluxuates, and the sensor detects that, so the ECU knows what position the motor is in to know when to fire the coils and inject the fuel. If the ECU can't figure it out, it usually just withholds all spark and fuel, though might simply inject/spark at the wrong times.

Typically, they don't "fail", but they can and will attract metal bits from road debris, and this changes the magnetic signature, messing with the signal.

j9fd3s

the E shaft position sensor is very easy to get to from under the car. i would suggest cleaning it, and resetting the ECU. if the ecu doesn't see an RPM signal from this sensor, the car will never start.

i have seen bad sensors (the FD uses the same part) but its very very rare. part number is N3A1-18-921A should you need it. Mazda list is $277.38. so clean/inspect first, replace second.

the starter is unrelated.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

So interesting development.

I reset the ECU via the brake pump and tried to start it. It started right up.

I pulled it in my garage to see if I could clean the ESS. How are you guys loosening the bolt? I jacked my car up and can see it perfectly from underneath but the oil pan is in the way for me to able to use a ratchet/socket. I tried 3 different lengths of extensions, and the oil pan or front axle is blocking it. How are you guys taking that bolt off?


Also another thing I noticed. It looks like there is a bit of oil that has coated the passengers side of my oil pan. A few pieces around the right side also look like there's actually a tiny bit of fresh oil on them..... I am putting some pics up. This is a cause for concern correct?





And although its not fresh and a bit hard to tell, the half that the oilpan drain plug is on, that half of the pan is much darker.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's possible that the drain plug washer wasn't replaced on your last change. The crush washer is not intended for re-use once the plug is loosened.


You don't need to remove the ESS, just wipe it off.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

New Development,


I dont know if its possible, but I feel like oil now has something to do with the issue I'm having.

I took your idea RIWWP and whiped it off by hand under the car with a rag and MAF cleaner.

I then reset the ECU which is actually very tough to do now. Takes 4-5 tries.

Regardless, I cranked for about 30 seconds, nothing. But whats worse, I got a VERY rich oil smell. I checked my oil, its at the low line. I just had it at the full line not 2 weeks ago. Whats goin on??

The Iphone sent this to my email sideways so you cant really tell much by the video but the sound of the cranking at the end should tell you. It looks like its gonna catch for 1 split second and blips, and then keeps on cranking with no return. I stopped because the smell of oil was overbearing.


IMG 0496 - YouTube

I think I bought a lemon folks.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Uh, up through 1:06, that is NOT the sound of cranking. I can't even figure out what would make that sound when trying to crank. Your starter isn't even spinning for that.

Finally your starter starts spinning, but it doesn't sound normal still. Doing some more digging, it sounds like you need to do this next: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...69/#post895937

Failing ground points can cause all sorts of issues.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Oh up until 1:00 was me pumping the gas because the ECU did not want to reset. I would do it in bursts to try to get like 20, but it didnt reset till the very end. Thats what I meant by its hard to reset it. It didn't used to be.


Regardless, Ok for this kind of thing should I disconnect the neg/pos and try cleaning/tightening the ground?

What is just so strange is that literally after i had the problem, i parked it, couldnt start it, came out an hour later, and it started perfectly.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, that doesn't make any sense. There is no ECU reset that involves the gas pedal. The only 2 methods are disconnecting the negative battery cable for at least a minute (or less by using some other electronics, like the brakes, to discharge the capacitors faster), or turning it to ACC, pumping the BRAKE pedal 20 times until the oil pressure gauge sweeps, as it did before you started cranking (went back and looked for it).

Yes, checking the battery grounds is certainly needed, but every reference to this CEL and this problem I am finding is also referring to the battery ground under the battery box or air box. See attachment for the Mazda TSB notice regarding it, with pics of where it is.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I mistyped. I meant pumping the brake. Im just a bit frustrated and am doing 1000x at once.

Also, I tried checking the ground that comes from the negative battery terminal. It is tight and secure to the chassis. and I just double checked, its the one in the pdf u linked. Its secure

I wiggled everything and rotated it to see if it made a difference.

I did a couple tries to start, when it started smelling rich, i tried with gas pedal fully depressed, just like i did outside the apartment complex.

After 2 starts, it was very weird, it started to give up, then go at it again, give up, and go at it, like little blips. Could this be an engine issue with like 1 rotor not wanting to do its job? or even worse; seized?
this is the video of the 3rd start:

Also, during this whole cranking session, the oil pressure guage was freaking out, goin everywhere.
tried once more after the crank in that video; Same result.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

OMG that sounds horrible
Battery maybe dead.

Do you have the upgraded starter? What year is this car? TL;DR

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

It's a 2005 Grand touring 6 speed MT.

I dont think that the battery WAS dead because it is a brand new yellowtop i got a few months ago. never had an issue with it before.

I suppose it could be dying from all the cranking I've been doing, not sure. Regardless, yeah, it sounds horrible.

I have a 2009 N3R3 starter in there. A used one from mazmart. I put it in 4 days ago. Worked well till now. Dunno if that's the issue though or not.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Update: My battery is dead.


I tried a few more things and eventually my battery pooped out, which is not surprising. It can only take so much. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. In my old car, 1-2 cranks usually meant your battery would be dead after.


Anyways, as far I see, there are 3 possibilities of what this could be.


1st - There is an issue with the starter i put in. May just be a fluke kinda thing but it might not be working. It is the most recent part install, and some1 else had a thread stating it turned out to be the starter. This is a 2005. I put in a used 2009 N3R3 (worked great till today)



2nd - Battery/Electrical wiring problem. I checked the physical ground that RIWWP pointed out, and it seems to be secure. Reason I'm not ruling electrical out is because (not recently) in the past, I did lose power while driving. It was probably the wire connected to the terminal came loose or something along those lines. I tightened the fixture and it was ok, but now I'm wondering if there is a bad wire all together

3rd and last - Engine issue. While cranking it the 3rd-5th time and in that second video, it just did not sound good. The guages were going all over the place, and oil seems to be dripping down, from above where the oil pan is. this is just an idea, prolly isnt the case, but I'm not ruling out something being wrong with the engine.


Conclusion:

I had a pretty rich smell eventually with it not being able to start so its possible it's flooded now. I am going to charge my yellowtop, swap out the new starter with my remanned 05 one, and try starting it a few more times. If it doesnt, I will have it towed to Mazda and explain the situation.


I appreciate the help. We'll see what happens.

j9fd3s

in my experience the optima's are junk, they don't like heat, or vibration, and they need to be charged in a special way from new. when you add all that up it makes a lousy choice for a car, IMO.

second, if the voltage drops low enough during cranking, weird things will happen, i would think the gauges jumping etc, are a symptom of a low battery. any flooding will just get worse, etc.

so charge/replace the battery, and try again

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure its probably flooded now especially since the last couple times I tried I didnt have my foot to the floor and the battery was dying, had a bit of a fuel smell.

We'll see what happens once I try going over everything once more. Not to mention the spark plugs may be soaked now.



What I really cant stress enough though is, the oil leak is from above the oil drain plug, not below. That's whats worrying me.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

Well a small update.

I finally got the sensor out and cleaned it completely and bolted it back in. I charged my battery all the way up and connected everything again.

I then tried to start the car again and it sounded even worse. The seat was all bumpy when trying to start and then the 2nd time I tried, it made a sound like that of a constant sparking sound and that was it. couldnt hear the engine at all. Dead is dead.

Will be towing next week to the dealer.

jamesf

iTrader: (1)

fixed it...

was going through checking off all boxes before I brought it to the dealer. I go to install my previous manufactured starter and what do I find? Inside the white case, the bolt to hold on the battery wire unscrewed and was making only minor contact because the case was holding it against the bolt.

Unbelievable. Screwed it back on, tried to start, could tell it was flooded, stopped.

Held gas pedal down fully and cranked until I heard the normal cranking sound.

Tried once more normally, started like normal. Its amazing how much of an idiot one can be.


as for the oil leaking, I am changing the oil right now and putting a new plug/seal in. switching from 5w-20 to 10w-30.

Ethan-1

I have a 2005 rx8 automatic. it keeps idling rough and stalls on me at times. every time it stalls I get a crankshaft position sensor code range/performance but ive checked the wires and replaced the sensor plenty of times. I cant find an issue with it. it seems to idle worse when under load ive noticed but idles rough the majority of the time. starts everytime regardless of temperature and when it does run it seems to have alot of power so I just cant think of It being compression

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Have you replaced the ignition coils, wires and spark plugs recently? With a bad sensor it would run poorly and trip codes in all regimes so the code feels like a side effect of another issue.

Ethan-1

I have replaced the ignition coils but I have not the wires. and the spark plugs were not replaced by me but by the previous owner before he sold it to me. ive pulled them and they seem to be looking alright though. clean and new. not wet at all