KCCO.Rx8

Yes, first post and thread. I know to use the search bar so please no flame.

Several days ago while leaving work my car died about 30 seconds into it's warm-up time. Of course after that it was flooded. Towed my car back home and spent yesterday getting it unflooded, finally it started! Yay? So I kept my rpm's about 4500-5000 for around 3-4 minutes, gave it some more gas to check everything out and a bang noise? I'm really not sure and a large plum of black smoke at 7500 rpms released.

Left the car alone until today, bought myself a db2 and came back with cylinder 2 blah blah.. So I went and bought some new spark plugs. Installed them - car started right up and held an idle of 2100 for about 2-3 minutes. The idle then dipped to around 1500 when I heard a sound of metal scraps being tossed around a bag? Kinda sounded like Optimus Prime got punched in the face. The sound came from the rear of the car? Car quickly stalled after that. I checked underneath the car because it sounded as if metal pieces had fallen to the ground - but no, it was clean.

Any ideas/options? Hoping not a broken rotor but with my luck lately I wouldn't be surprised.
Thanks for all input.

Info on car: 2004 Manual-Trans. 96k Miles. I've only owned it for the last 8 months so no previous info is known.

EricB

iTrader: (7)

go ahead and change ALL of your coils plugs and wires, since the milage of those are unknown.

which leads me to my next assumption, that you probably heard MIAC, search for that and see if thats what you heard.

KCCO.Rx8

After searching for the MIAC, I don't believe that's the sound I heard. As my revs didn't get up more than 2k, it was just a sudden sound of glass shards shaking in a bag. I'll go pick up the coils and cords I ordered tomorrow and give those a try although I'm a bit hesitant to try and start my car after that sound.

EricB

iTrader: (7)

you said you changed your spark plugs, is it possible you reversed the leading and trailing positions?

have you removed/changed/messed with your intake in the last 1k miles?

Does the car want to die when you start it? does it start backfiring a lot when you try to keep it from dying?

My car bogged out of nowhere and then from 6krpm it just died. On the side of the road a few problems came together all at once.. My intake screens in my intake were turned sideways causing a weird airflow through the MAF..

2 of my wires were not 100% seated on the coils

The gasket around my MAF was broken and was letting air out causing a leak.

I dont remember any rattling noises. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.

Cliffjumper126

My thoughts are that if the noise you heard was damage occurring, then the damage is already done, and trying to start it probably won't matter, damage-wise. You also can't not start it, because it could be perfectly fine, and just some type of ignition issue. I would replace the ignition and fire it up. If it was damage occurring, then the engine is probably already shot anyway, and trying to start it won't really make it more dead lol. Plus, you gotta find out if you need a new engine one way or another.

But it's your car and your choice

KCCO.Rx8

@Eric. It wouldn't be at all possible that I installed the spark plugs incorrectly, did them one at a time and they're clearly labeled/different. The intake has remained untouched for the last 2k miles as well. The other day is the first time it's ever died on me. It only started finally and held an idle after I changed the sparks - but that didn't last long.

@Cliff. Yeah ..That is a good point. The 'more dead' bit made me laugh. I'll go pick up my coils when I get off from work and give it another go. This time I'll grab the recorder.

Cliffjumper126

Yeah getting a clip would be a great idea. I'd love to help you out but seattle isn't exactly nearby
I have a feeling that a seal may have come loose inside the housing like my previous engine. Hopefully not though. Also make sure that your oil level and coolant level haven't changed. If they have changed, that would be indicative of a seal failure

KCCO.Rx8

I'm hoping not as well, I assumed when I bought this car I would eventually have to change the engine. I just hoped that it wouldn't happen for a few more months so a 20b conversion would be a feasible solution.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

Judging from the above I would not be surprised if you have caused engine damage.

What kind of maintenance have you done in the last 8 months? Do you have any maintenance history from the previous owner(s)? What is your driving habits? I assume that you know a couple of very basic things around rotaries: 1) when cold you should avoid passing 4000 rpms; 2) check the oil level every two fill ups and act accordingly; 3) redline the car once fully warmed up.

Back to your issue. Can you check and see if the oil has any metal shavings? Maybe pull out the dipstick? Could the metal noises be your cat being completely destroyed?

KCCO.Rx8

In the last 8 months nothing extensive, got the oil replaced when I bought the car - about it.

No history from the previous owner of the vehicle. Got it from a dealer which only provided me with a carfax with little to no info, just that it's been passed around like a highschool cheerleader.

Driving habits? I only commute maybe 5mins max to work each day (Not ideal for a rx8 DD I know). I warm the car up for 10 minutes before driving it. Check oil every 100/50 miles since I do odd fill ups. I do avoid redlining my car on my ways to work though, although I do redline her once every day or so when I take another way home or go to meet a client in another city.

I didn't see any oil shavings in the dip stick when I checked. The metal noises could be my cat - I did fail to mention that after the black smoke happened when unflooding it.. My cat could be seen glowing red from the engine compartment - even more so when I checked under the car. Which lasted for maybe 10 minutes? I did some research on rx8club and a few people had mentioned that is a common thing so I failed to mention it in the OP.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

OP there is no need to let the car idle for 10 minutes to warm up. For future reference, just turn the key on wait a couple of minutes until the rpms drop down and then start driving. Just until it warms up change gears at around 4000 rpms. It is better for the car and your cat to warm up the car on load.

If your cat is glowing you definitely have a failing-destroyed cat. I am worried though that a bigger damage could have been caused since you were able to see the cat glowing red from your engine compartment. Was your whole exhaust system glowing? I would definitely pull the cat out and check how it looks (I bet it's fried). I would also inspect the whole exhaust system as there is a possibility some pieces of the cat to have been stuck somewhere in your exhaust.

Next thing is to ask yourself why the cat failed and remedy the cause. More than likely you need to upgrade all your ignition components. Hopefully, there is no internal damage in the engine and you will get the car going again.

KCCO.Rx8

Well, I was only able to see the glowing on the side of the cat from the engine compartment, the whole thing wasn't glowing - just the vents? on it I assume. I was just checking my engine at every angle when I noticed. It wasn't a large glow that could be seen without shoving your face next to the engine.

I have a feeling yes, the cat is fried and I'm hoping that's the sounds I heard (I have no clue if a cat has metal that could break in it since I'm not very car savvy). I can follow any DIY, but as for tech and components I have to do much research.

I've recorded 2 videos of me starting my car. I'm rendering them to youtube right now.

Also got a quote from the dealer for a new engine(just in prep in case I do need one)- $4300 for parts and labor. He said I could use the new coils and plugs I just purchased and that should drop the price up to $600 or more. How is this price for people that have had to replace an engine?

KCCO.Rx8

Here are 2 videos I've just recorded. Have not added the new ignition coils. In the 2nd video I think it started more difficult because of the short run time and shut off of video 1 it became slightly flooded.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

Well $4300 is very fair. I would get that in writing as well I would also suggest you looking at Mazmart. Take a look here: https://www.rx8club.com/mazmart-88/r...ngines-104255/

Maybe someone in your area could also point you towards a reputable rotary builder. Look at the regional forums.

Checking/changing the cat is fairly simple. You just need a jack, two stands, some W40 and basic tools. I think there is a DIY somewhere. Ignition components might be a bit more time consuming and labor intensive but with the right tools it is not that bad. There are good DIYs here on that as well.

If it ends up being your cat fried make sure you do some research and learn your options. You could go with a midpipe (cat less which will make your car a bit louder and smellier but you will not have issues with cat anymore). Don't know though your taste and the laws in Seattle. If there is emission testing you will fail.

OEM cats are super expensive but among the few ones that can survive the heat of our engines. Look at onlinemazdaparts.com. There are some other options in the market and they all have been discussed extensively in this forum. So do some research and decide what way you'll go. You could also take a look at the for sale section of this forum. You could find a cheap used OEM cat from another member.

KCCO.Rx8

I've been looking for exhaust systems for quite a while - something nice and deep. (I've slowly been ordering parts to add to my car for a while - am one of those people who wants to do everything at once instead of adding piece by piece). Did some light reading on cat deletes/mid pipes, but many people have said they can mess with the motor because the lack of pressure. I'm not too familiar with the cars computer or how to avoid this problem if it does exist.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

Based on the 2nd video it looks like you suffer from misfires (blinking cell and engine sounds like an impreza ). As far as the weird sound I doubt that it comes from your cat. The sound disappears when you rev and appears when you idle, right? When you idle does the car shake a lot? Could be your motor mounts being bad and the engine rubbing the frame.

I am sure someone else from the rotary gurus of this forum can confirm or discredit my assumption. Apologies if my guess as far as the sound is off

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

That is not true. Focus your reading on information coming out of this forum. For better search results use google. Here is how to search in an efficient manner:
Link to use Google to search Rx8club.com + more - RX8Club.com

KCCO.Rx8

I just watched the video 2. Didn't notice the check engine light (CEL) had come back on, ran outside and checked it. Gave me 4 codes.

P0301 Cnf
P0506 Cnf
P0301 Pnd
P0506 Pnd

Which was..

Cylinder 1 Misfire
+
Idle air control system rpm lower than expected

Edit: That is how I searched, using Google -> "Rx8Club _______" and found just a couple threads with people talking about issues with no cats. This was just a quick search during my work break.

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

P0301 is self explanatory. P0506 could be due to a dirty maf, filter, or vacuum leak.

KCCO.Rx8

Swore I wrote a response... Anyways I suppose I'll re-type.

Ordered 4 coils from AutoZone to have shipped to their store next day for pick-up.. Girl only ordered me 2 because she only replaces 2 at a time for her fd3.. So now I get to wait another day to hopefully clear up (P0301).

Haven't decided how to go about the P0506 yet... I suppose I'll focus on one thing I know I can do at a time..

As far as my car shutting off.. I was reading around the forums and found that a completely clogged Cat that is $#@%'d, can have this effect. Will be heading out and pulling the cat off to give it an inspection briefly. If it's failed I'll completely clear it out and re-install as a temporary fix until my racing mid-pipe gets ordered tonight (some directions on which ones you guys feel sounds good would be appreciated).

Back to the video(2). Does the color of the exhaust point to engine failure? or are my symptoms so far fixable to the best of the provided knowledge.

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

Your girl has an FD? She know's whats up.

O and good luck with your 8!

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

I assume you are talking about the smoke coming out of the exhaust. I think it could be misleading to base a conclusion out of the smoke at this point. The car is running rough and the cat is destroyed and I believe you mentioned that the car was flooded. Perhaps all these reasons and the cold weather (not sure how cold was during the video) could explain the smoke.

KCCO.Rx8

Very good points, I overlooked the fact that I briefly flooded it again on the 1st start. The temp was around the low 40's in the video as well. The mind doesn't think all too well when it's stressed. Thanks!

tza0001

iTrader: (2)

I understand but try to be calm. There are a series of steps you need to do before you declare the engine done. I am not trying to give you false hope as things look pretty rough right now, but maybe you could get the car running again and stretch a few more miles out of the engine.

Coldwound

iTrader: (1)

Rip the cat. out thats my bet I've had a bad cat. before just not that bad but after the car started to warm up it was a dramatic difference in how it drove and the power. A completely destroyed cat. might have been the noise you heard.