New Engine @ 19,000 miles
 

Yep, that's right. This tops off the tranny rebuild we had done at 10,000 miles (SEVERE grindage).

It began as a simple thing, really. I took the car in for delayed starting. No, this was not the typical dragging start that is related to the battery. The starter cranked the engine at normal speed. It was taking about 10 seconds of cranking to start. Sometimes it wouldn't start, but it would start right up on the second round of cranking.

A simple fix, I thought. I figured maybe the spark plugs were getting gummy. I am friends with the head Mazda mechanic at our dealership here. He checked the plugs, but they were fine. Out of curiosity, and perhaps because the plugs were already out, he checked the compression on the motor. He said Mazda minimum standards were that the compression be at 98% on the rotors. Mine was diagnosed as 84% on the front rotor and 74% ( :eek: ) on the rear rotor.

The service manager called Mazda about the issue because my poor car's motor was quite worn at only 18,992 miles. It took much deliberation, but they decided to warranty the motor (as if they had a choice :rolleyes: ). They were asking questions about modifications to the car from exhaust to even if it had after market wheels!!!

Anyhoo, I think my 8 will be one of the poor damned souls, like many of the FDs.

I am by far not complaining. I love my car, but if she is going to need engines replaced in that kind of time frame, I will be forced to get rid of her. :(

Just a word of warning for you guys, if anything like the problems I was having happens, get the compression checked. Hell, I'd have them do it anyway, especially because my car was running just fine once started (it was idling a little rough though). We'd have never known, if it had not been for my friend. Who knows--the engine prolly would have worn completely out just out of warranty. That would surely suck.

Oh, and in my city there have been NUMEROUS auto RX-8s that have needed new engine and the more miles people are getting on their MT's, the more are rolling into the shop that need engines. *sigh* I had such high hopes for the Renesis...

Sorry about your engine. Did mazda ever give you any possiable reason for the worn engine? Just asking so I can try to avoid.

lol...there is no avoiding when you are talking about rotaries. :p

Seriously, they have no clue. And being rotary fans previous to buying te RX-8, we did everything by the book as far as rotary maintenance goes. *shrugs*

woop! scared you guys, didn't I? :p

You need to ask your head Mazda mechanic friend (away from work) about all the mod questions. It sounds like they started to try and figure out why it happened, then tried to figure out a way to get out of the warranty. I mean...after market wheels affecting compression?

Please.

That would be good infor for all of us to know.

Geez, if they can get out of warranty work because i put different rims on then its outrageous. So many mixed messages. Rotary is solid, replaced after 19K miles. Makes you stop and think and worry.

Can you describe what your oil consumption looked like prior to this problem? Was there ever a time when the engine used no motor oil? Thanks, and sorry about your misfortune.

Yes...we all need more information on this, feed us wisdom please...

What's "woop" mean

Did they give you PSI numbers?

Will do, once I can get him alone. But that was what the service manager was telling me (he hasn't always bee the most honest).

I thought the questioning was a bit out of sorts myself, and I thank God we havent' modded the motor yet. :eek: But from what I hear, the engines are having more troubles than they are wanting us to find out. Maybe that's being a bit paranoid, but i used to work for this dealership and have seen the magnitude of the 8's that are needing engines. It worries me.

That's what I have found to be: n/a rotaries have been rock solid, but the Renesis has been a bit under-engineered, IMO. :confused:

What arethe symptoms on the automatics? Ive already had my transmission replaced once - but the engine has always seemed to be fine (never had any start up issues) andIm almost at 30000. If theres something wrong w/all the automatics Ibetter find out soon b/c Ive only got 20k miles left before Im SOL

The engine used moderate amount of engine oil: maybe .5-.75 quarts oer every oil change (3000 miles).

it's okay about the misfortune. I *hope* I am one of the few to experience this problem, but in my town it seems a LOT of the engines are giving trouble... :(

The only wisdom I can give (based upon my love for the rotary previous to our purchase of the 8) is that not all rotaries are alike. Each one varies more )tolerance-wise) than any piston engine. that being said, i don't expect that every RX-8's engine will prematurely wear like ours has.

It's just a slang version of "oops". Meant to be a form of sarcasm, not to imply that I was joking. i am serious about our engine having to be replaced, sadly so.

No, but I assumed the numbers he was talking about were percentages. I will ask him tomorrow and update you guys.

The issues with the ATs here has been he engines dieing at an idle and taking a while to start after they die. it's been problematic amongst 50% of our AT customers. MNAO has said that the majority of the problems have been with us in Lubbock and Las Vegas (i cannot figure any resemblance other than the fact that both are dry climates :confused: )

Were you getting any check engine lights or noticing any performance derogation?

I notice you're the resident autocrosser....has this car seen much time killing cones??

Of interest here, would be that I have seen brand new, not properly broken in engines, being show dogged on test drives by young inexperienced dealership sales men & women. There are a lot of early 8's that had problems with coolant leaking from improper warming of the engines prior to hitting redline on a test drive. The rotary has a breakin period to help its seals. Without this knowledge, you are going to have problems.

I ordered my car as one the presale ones. The dealership lost my order, so I began looking. I specifically told them that I would not take one off the lot for fear of abuse. I took delivery of a new one right off the truck. It was still shrink wrapped. No one got a chance to hot dog it around the car lots.

Then, there are a lot of first time rotary owners out there that fell prey to the marketing campaign of this car. It was cool to go Zoom Zoom and get hugged by your car doors. Nobody knew that a rotary needed to be broken in slowly, and then warmed up 5 full minutes after the temperature gauge comes up to normal.

I'm not saying that you did not know these things about your car, but who drove your car before you had it? Did you buy it of the lot with low miles on the OD?

I have only seen one 8 come back to my dealership for engine failure, and that is because the guy never put oil in it and it seized right up on him.

I would like to know the results of your motors autopsy once you have them.

No CEL ever came on. And the performance wane was very slow, but we can definately tell with the new engine that she was dragging ass a little bit.

No. The miata is my autocross car. still tearing it up at 110,000 miles. :D

We have only raced the 8 once just because of the fact that my husband cannot take sundays off to go with me. I prefer the miata. The RX-8 outhandles the miata by far, but the 8 spins like a top once she lets go. :p
Speaking of which, the 8 needs new tires soon. I wonder if the new Azenis are going to be offered in an 18...

I know what you mean. our car was a demo that had 4,500 miles on the clock. I checked the records on the car and it had NONE of the TSBs or flashes done to it, not even the first oil change. This is why I expected it to need something. And I can tell you first hand about the dealership morons who hot rod RX-8s all day long with like 5 miles on the ODO. :mad:

You know what's funny about that... once I got the car back with the fresh new engine, I had to bring the car back into the dealership the next day due to the CEL flashing at me. It wouldn't stay on, just would flash for abour 5 seconds then go off. there were no codes, but the mechanic told me to dog it. We did for about a day and the light kept flashing periodically (there was no code in the computer though). I am not sure if it is still doing it, but we'll see if it is still doing it in a week.


We had one guy do that and the service manager told him that this was going to be his only warranty engine. After that Mazda won't warranty the engine for such abuse. Idiot was cursing the car... :rolleyes:
Trust me, I would too, but Mazda doesn't allow the dealer to take the engine apart. They HAVE to send it back immediately too. So I guess we'll never know. It frustrates me.

I called a minute ago and he told me that the numbers he gave me were in PSI. my apologies for my misinformation. So one rotor had 84psi and the other had 74psi.

Wow, that's low... Bummer

Yeah, well we shall see how the new engine goes. I need to know what the break-in procedure for the Renesis is. I am not going to drive it like mad like they said; makes me shiver. Help me out with that Nemesis? I am too lazy to search. ;)
I am keeping it under 4K right now...

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

Click on the How to "Break-in" your new RX8 picture

Thank you. :)

diane you're doing a good job scaring off the n00bs on msprotege forum ;)

lmao...I was pissed at the time, and probabaly a little inebriated.

Apex Seal Wear
 

You said you've been seeing a good number of the 8's rolling in to service, esp. AT models and more and more MT (6 spd) ones now too...
Do you know if they're experiencing the same issue as yours (compression loss in the rotors??)
I've been reading some other threads regarding this specific issue, as the Apex seals are actually reduced and Intake Ports enlarged compared w/ the previous gen 13B engine on the 7. Does this look like excessive wear on your Apex seals that resulted in this, according to Mazda service dept.??

So the only indication of lost compression would be harder starts? Then the car seems fine? So, if lets say, my car starts harder and harder, I should first replace the battery and, if it still persists, go to the dealer to get the compresion test done.
While if the car starts fine, compression should be still good.
Did I miss anything? I guess I like warning signs, would have a hard time just asking the dealer to check compression for no reason (as those spark plugs are hard to get to...)

My car has a rough idle and has for some time. But it runs smooth as hell once its warmed up. I leave it around 3500 shifting until it gets halfway. Makes me start looking hard at the vette

man i feel so guilty i know a few times i revved it pretty high before it was fully warmed up.

Let me ask the mechanic if he has tested the AT cars, but he knew for some reason that they needed motors, not just because compression, but they also ran really rough and would die when idling sometimes. The six speeds run rough and becaue he knows what could be going on, he checks the compression.

I am not sure how your Mazda dealers are in your area, but our head mechanic really cares about getting the car fixed the first time, not just doing BS software "patches" and or fixes.

I think this is why Mazda really investigates in the car's history, because so many in our area have needed motors.
This is how it goes: the more warranty claims a dealership has, the more Mazda will scrutanize their work. Mazda just wants to make sure the claims are legitimate if they are going to pay 4 grand to a dealership for a motor install. My dealership realizes this, but we don't want customers to be driving shitty running vehicles around and constantly bringing them back to be fixed. this creates non-brand loyal customers and is a general pain in the ass for the customers. I should know. ;)

Once again, the dealership is not allowed by Mazda to tear down the engine. Mazda demands the bad engine to be sent back in original condition within days of the engine swap. This is why we are left clueless as to what is happening with the motors, hence my frustration. But generally lost compression can be excessiveApex seal wear.

This was the case for our car, but it may be other symptoms for other cars, such as the ATs we have seen with major problems will die at an idle regardless of warmup, time driven or so on.
I doubt they would do a compression check. Like I said the head Mazda mechanic at my dealership cares a lot about his customers, so he does the check anyways when one is in the shop for engine trouble. Some dealerships may not want to take the time as they may see it as a "waste" of time. :rolleyes:

Compression Loss
 

Do you know if Mazda will reveal its diagnosis of your engine to you or even your service dept. that submitted it, or just keep it to themselves??
Also, with the rash of rx8's coming in to the shop in your area, anyone else seeing this Trend in other places and regions?? If it's happening in one area, then there should be other places where this is occurring.... Since it's getting to the 2 year mark since the 8's have come out, more data should be coming in.

I wonder if the motor buyback plan that was secretly being implemented by Mazda has anything to do with this?

Nope. They won't even let the dealership know what's going on.
We have heard that the same problems with the ATs are happening in Las Vegas, but that was all. I haven't asked of late, but that was a few months ago. *shrugs*

Do you mean the one for the hp rating or is there a new one for the engine problems?

We have had 3 RX-8s that were buybacks that I know of; two were AT and one was a 6spd.

Oh yes, and another friend of mine who has a 6spd black 8 has had his tranny rebuilt, A/C compressor replaced, throw out bearing replaced, AND a new motor put in. I talked to him today and he said the new motor is running fine (it has about 11K on it).

Hmmm. I think these motors with allegedly low compression on one rotor are actually just fine and they're pinching them to use in the Mazda Star series 'cause there's a motor shortage.

I don't know. Maybe it IS just a production variance thing. My car feels strong at 21,000 though.

What was the cause of his orig. motor replacement, same compression issue?? And u know how much mileage the first motor had racked up when this occurred?? I'm guessing that there were no mods, neglect, or abuse before this happened...

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/images/smilies/lol.gif
Yah...let's ruin our customer confidence in our cars' reliability and spoil any chances in return buyers all in the name of racing...

I'm sure that's what they're thinking. ;)

I am not sure if it was the same low compression that mine had, but the motor was definately blown when he had it towed in. BUT it overheated for "unknown" reasons (I think he hit a small animal because it had radiator damage when it came in).
just over 50,000. I am quote surprised that Mazda warrantied the engine since it was out of the warranty milage. *shrugs*
No mods, and he did his oil changes at some miscellaneous oil change business, not at the dealer, so I assume he was keeping it up.
But the body shows more than 50K worth of wear. he put that car through hell and racked up his 50,000+ miles in just shy of a year. :eek:

Any further problems
 

Please advise if you hear of any more 8's being towed in....

Okie dokie. But rarely are they towed in. Most times the owners are able to drive them. The problems are sporadic. That's why they are shocked when they hear the car needs a motor.

i'd love to tear a bunch of those motors down. i'm thinking it's gotta be the side seals just not liking the exhaust contact.

anyone who's built rotaries before, you might be shocked at the side-corner seal gap of .012-.022"!!!! i don't know if some of these were a mistake, or if it's because the seal is in contact with the exhaust gas-therefore expanding much more or what, but i don't like it.

but in any respect, my rebuilds have all been 100-115+psi cranking them with my spare t2 bellhousing and starter, and that's before they're ever started (compression goes up after they're run-in). go figure that one out.