Lack of power, stalling, pinking noise and more
03-28-2012, 10:30 PM
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Lack of power, stalling, pinking noise and more
Dear all PLEASE do not feel you have to read or contribute to this inquiry. I know the information to answer all things is on this board, unfortunately it is partial and confusing. So if you want to help thank you. If you want me to use the search function - been there done that FOR HOURS!
I have had a 2005 auto RX8 base model with 50k miles for about two months now.
I live up a mountain (at circa 1,250ft). I have poor MPG (as low as 13.9 on the latest tank but averaging 15.8 on the last 1,700 miles). I have stalled four or five times for no obvious reason (always slow speed on a slope or turning the car around in a tight circle). Also once lost power on hill when cold.
I have a chronic "low power" problem on hills but the $64k question "is it low or is it just Rx8 ville"? (On the flat she goes like sh*t of a stick once revved up a bit).
When I go up a steep twisty hill and have to slow down to say 32 mph I cannot speed up in second I have to slow down so the limiter will let me drop into 1st gear to get her going. On a more "regular" slope with dual lane highway and I have to drive up in 3rd and drop to 2nd if I want to accelerate AT ALL. Is this "normal"?
I also frequently have a sort of pinking noise when I drop down to second to accelerate up the hill (this will be around 5-6,000 rpm). It makes the noise for a few seconds while accelerating and then it quietens down.
There is only one Mazda dealer on Maui and the previous owner claims she was at war with them (they were pretty rude to me when I called up too). Anyhoo I have finally got the last three years' service records. Theoretically the car had new coils and plugs but no cables about 10,000 miles ago.
So two questions. One am I experiencing low power or is this just normal? And second I can do coils, plugs, cables and installation all for about $400. Is there any point dealing with the difficult dealership to check out the coils (there were all sorts of problems when they returned the car last time). Oh BTW pulled one of the plugs and it looked a little dirty but not horrible and they allegedly did a “carbon flush” at the time they did new cols – oh BTW they charged $228 for the plugs and $292 for the coils PLUS $40 freight and handling). I am buying plugs for about $90!
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Oh sorry should have said transmission fluid looked a bit old when I bought the car about 1,700 miles ago even though it was theoretically replaced at 33k miles. Am going to do a transmission flush soon.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Steve
I have had a 2005 auto RX8 base model with 50k miles for about two months now.
I live up a mountain (at circa 1,250ft). I have poor MPG (as low as 13.9 on the latest tank but averaging 15.8 on the last 1,700 miles). I have stalled four or five times for no obvious reason (always slow speed on a slope or turning the car around in a tight circle). Also once lost power on hill when cold.
I have a chronic "low power" problem on hills but the $64k question "is it low or is it just Rx8 ville"? (On the flat she goes like sh*t of a stick once revved up a bit).
When I go up a steep twisty hill and have to slow down to say 32 mph I cannot speed up in second I have to slow down so the limiter will let me drop into 1st gear to get her going. On a more "regular" slope with dual lane highway and I have to drive up in 3rd and drop to 2nd if I want to accelerate AT ALL. Is this "normal"?
I also frequently have a sort of pinking noise when I drop down to second to accelerate up the hill (this will be around 5-6,000 rpm). It makes the noise for a few seconds while accelerating and then it quietens down.
There is only one Mazda dealer on Maui and the previous owner claims she was at war with them (they were pretty rude to me when I called up too). Anyhoo I have finally got the last three years' service records. Theoretically the car had new coils and plugs but no cables about 10,000 miles ago.
So two questions. One am I experiencing low power or is this just normal? And second I can do coils, plugs, cables and installation all for about $400. Is there any point dealing with the difficult dealership to check out the coils (there were all sorts of problems when they returned the car last time). Oh BTW pulled one of the plugs and it looked a little dirty but not horrible and they allegedly did a “carbon flush” at the time they did new cols – oh BTW they charged $228 for the plugs and $292 for the coils PLUS $40 freight and handling). I am buying plugs for about $90!
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Oh sorry should have said transmission fluid looked a bit old when I bought the car about 1,700 miles ago even though it was theoretically replaced at 33k miles. Am going to do a transmission flush soon.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Steve
03-28-2012, 10:44 PM
#2
First, are you getting any check engine lights? If so, what were the codes?
Test the coils to see if they are operating normally https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-testing-all-rx-8-coils-gm-ls2-yukon-coils-sparkplug-wires-222641/
Are you saying plugs were changed 10k miles ago? FIY, it's recommended to change plugs and coils at the same time, as the condition of one will affect the other.
Check your cat converter by A) Check to see if it glows after a hard drive, B) pull the front (closest to engine) down and look inside. You'll know if it's damaged or not.
What grade of gas are you using? Pinging noise (from the engine) is not a good thing.
Don't purchase plugs/coils from dealer and have them service it. This car is fairly simple to work on. Follow the DIY's and save large amounts of cash, on parts that are easy enough to swap on your own.
Test the coils to see if they are operating normally https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-testing-all-rx-8-coils-gm-ls2-yukon-coils-sparkplug-wires-222641/
Are you saying plugs were changed 10k miles ago? FIY, it's recommended to change plugs and coils at the same time, as the condition of one will affect the other.
Check your cat converter by A) Check to see if it glows after a hard drive, B) pull the front (closest to engine) down and look inside. You'll know if it's damaged or not.
What grade of gas are you using? Pinging noise (from the engine) is not a good thing.
Don't purchase plugs/coils from dealer and have them service it. This car is fairly simple to work on. Follow the DIY's and save large amounts of cash, on parts that are easy enough to swap on your own.
03-28-2012, 11:25 PM
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Soldier what a lovely helpful post
I should have said there have been CELs except for about 5 seconds of on off after the plugs were puled to check condition. oh and i am using Premium gas...
First, are you getting any check engine lights? If so, what were the codes?
Test the coils to see if they are operating normally https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=222641
Are you saying plugs were changed 10k miles ago? FIY, it's recommended to change plugs and coils at the same time, as the condition of one will affect the other.
Check your cat converter by A) Check to see if it glows after a hard drive, B) pull the front (closest to engine) down and look inside. You'll know if it's damaged or not.
What grade of gas are you using? Pinging noise (from the engine) is not a good thing.
Don't purchase plugs/coils from dealer and have them service it. This car is fairly simple to work on. Follow the DIY's and save large amounts of cash, on parts that are easy enough to swap on your own.
Test the coils to see if they are operating normally https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=222641
Are you saying plugs were changed 10k miles ago? FIY, it's recommended to change plugs and coils at the same time, as the condition of one will affect the other.
Check your cat converter by A) Check to see if it glows after a hard drive, B) pull the front (closest to engine) down and look inside. You'll know if it's damaged or not.
What grade of gas are you using? Pinging noise (from the engine) is not a good thing.
Don't purchase plugs/coils from dealer and have them service it. This car is fairly simple to work on. Follow the DIY's and save large amounts of cash, on parts that are easy enough to swap on your own.
Last edited by MauiMazda; 03-28-2012 at 11:29 PM. Reason: I am dumb...
03-28-2012, 11:32 PM
#4
first thing to do is take your car to an Autozone (Ir equivalent) store and have the code read for free. Once you have those, you can plug them into google search via site:rx8club.com (click in my signature).
If you can't find an answer, post the codes here
If you can't find an answer, post the codes here
03-29-2012, 05:21 PM
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My bad there have been NO CELs except for the 5 seconds .. that was what I meant to say. Me stoopid.
03-30-2012, 11:15 AM
#7
Ok ... not being nasty but the 4 port auto is gutless .. you know this right?
Before spending more money on parts ...
Check Catalytic
Do a compression test.
Report back and we will go from there
FWIW I live at 1400 ft ... and don't experience any of those pinging sounds you mention. However I use 91 octane fuel.
Before spending more money on parts ...
Check Catalytic
Do a compression test.
Report back and we will go from there
FWIW I live at 1400 ft ... and don't experience any of those pinging sounds you mention. However I use 91 octane fuel.
03-30-2012, 09:16 PM
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Getting back to the Cat (I have never owned a car with a Cat) am I right in understanding that I just look up the tailpipe after a decent thrash and if it is glowing I have a problem?
Secondly (or is it thirdly), as I have no ramps and virtually no tools, how easy is it to get the Cat off at the front as RX8Soldier suggested. (I have downloaded most of the manuals but would like a little guidance as sometimes the manuals seem a little optimistic and at others overly cautious!).
TIA
Steve
PS To clarify: I had NO CELs for about 1,500 miles. I then had a friendly garage whip out a couple of plugs for a quick check during an oil change. When I started the car the CEL came on and flickered on and off for about 5-10 seconds. Since then another 250 miles with zero CELs. That is the only time the Check Engine Light came on.
03-30-2012, 10:12 PM
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LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
No, your impression of the cat is incorrect. IF you thrash it on a run, stop, hop out and drop to the ground next to the driver's door, look toward the center of the car underneath. The tan-ish looking lump is the cat. If it's glowing at all (usually starts as a glow in a circle around the O2 sensor that you can see plugged into the side and grows from there) it's definitely clogged and toasted. You are already likely doing critical damage at that point. HOWEVER, no glow does not mean that it's fine. Your cat can fail without throwing a single code. Mine did. It also fried the O2 sensor and I believe slightly warped a rotor housing that eventually lead to an engine replacement, due to symptoms and issues ever since that failure until the engine was replaced.
There is no real way to tell for sure if the cat has failed/clogged or not, just a collection of "if 'yes', it has". But no code, no glow, no power loss, no crumbled cat element, can still be failing.
Getting the cat off is a complete PITA unless it's relatively new hardware there, or a cat that lives in a completely dry environment (like Arizona). The mounting hardware rusts over insanely quickly. The easiest solution to dropping the cat if rust is going to be an issue, is to take the cat to a mom and pop corner shop, have them put the car on the lift and use torches and power tools with plenty of space to replace the hardware with new bolts. A full bolt set will run you ~$70 from a dealer. If you can find stainless steel bolts of the right sizes elsewhere, you can probably get them cheaper. Non-stainless steel bolts will rust through even faster than OEM, to critical brittle levels. Just have the shop replace the bolts for you (they can't remove the cat legally, but nothing illegal about replacing the bolts), then you take the car back, drive home, put it on jack stands and undo the fresh bolts with little trouble. 12mm socket for the cross braces to get them out of the way, 17mm for the front bolts, 14mm for the rear bolts.
$400 for the ignition replacement you mentioned earlier is still you getting robbed. You can buy the entire set of OEM parts from Advance Auto, online with a currently running 15% off + $50 gift card deal, for $182 + shipping.
Replacing everything for a complete beginner is maybe an hour of work with a plug socket ($3), some extensions ($5-$15), a 10mm and 12mm socket and a socket wrench. SOOOO easy. Plenty of us can do the entire replacement in maybe 20 minutes.
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
No, your impression of the cat is incorrect. IF you thrash it on a run, stop, hop out and drop to the ground next to the driver's door, look toward the center of the car underneath. The tan-ish looking lump is the cat. If it's glowing at all (usually starts as a glow in a circle around the O2 sensor that you can see plugged into the side and grows from there) it's definitely clogged and toasted. You are already likely doing critical damage at that point. HOWEVER, no glow does not mean that it's fine. Your cat can fail without throwing a single code. Mine did. It also fried the O2 sensor and I believe slightly warped a rotor housing that eventually lead to an engine replacement, due to symptoms and issues ever since that failure until the engine was replaced.
There is no real way to tell for sure if the cat has failed/clogged or not, just a collection of "if 'yes', it has". But no code, no glow, no power loss, no crumbled cat element, can still be failing.
Getting the cat off is a complete PITA unless it's relatively new hardware there, or a cat that lives in a completely dry environment (like Arizona). The mounting hardware rusts over insanely quickly. The easiest solution to dropping the cat if rust is going to be an issue, is to take the cat to a mom and pop corner shop, have them put the car on the lift and use torches and power tools with plenty of space to replace the hardware with new bolts. A full bolt set will run you ~$70 from a dealer. If you can find stainless steel bolts of the right sizes elsewhere, you can probably get them cheaper. Non-stainless steel bolts will rust through even faster than OEM, to critical brittle levels. Just have the shop replace the bolts for you (they can't remove the cat legally, but nothing illegal about replacing the bolts), then you take the car back, drive home, put it on jack stands and undo the fresh bolts with little trouble. 12mm socket for the cross braces to get them out of the way, 17mm for the front bolts, 14mm for the rear bolts.
$400 for the ignition replacement you mentioned earlier is still you getting robbed. You can buy the entire set of OEM parts from Advance Auto, online with a currently running 15% off + $50 gift card deal, for $182 + shipping.
Replacing everything for a complete beginner is maybe an hour of work with a plug socket ($3), some extensions ($5-$15), a 10mm and 12mm socket and a socket wrench. SOOOO easy. Plenty of us can do the entire replacement in maybe 20 minutes.
Last edited by RIWWP; 03-30-2012 at 10:16 PM.
03-31-2012, 10:34 PM
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LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
No, your impression of the cat is incorrect. IF you thrash it on a run, stop, hop out and drop to the ground next to the driver's door, look toward the center of the car underneath. The tan-ish looking lump is the cat. If it's glowing at all (usually starts as a glow in a circle around the O2 sensor that you can see plugged into the side and grows from there) it's definitely clogged and toasted. You are already likely doing critical damage at that point. HOWEVER, no glow does not mean that it's fine. Your cat can fail without throwing a single code. Mine did. It also fried the O2 sensor and I believe slightly warped a rotor housing that eventually lead to an engine replacement, due to symptoms and issues ever since that failure until the engine was replaced.
There is no real way to tell for sure if the cat has failed/clogged or not, just a collection of "if 'yes', it has". But no code, no glow, no power loss, no crumbled cat element, can still be failing.
Getting the cat off is a complete PITA unless it's relatively new hardware there, or a cat that lives in a completely dry environment (like Arizona). The mounting hardware rusts over insanely quickly. The easiest solution to dropping the cat if rust is going to be an issue, is to take the cat to a mom and pop corner shop, have them put the car on the lift and use torches and power tools with plenty of space to replace the hardware with new bolts. A full bolt set will run you ~$70 from a dealer. If you can find stainless steel bolts of the right sizes elsewhere, you can probably get them cheaper. Non-stainless steel bolts will rust through even faster than OEM, to critical brittle levels. Just have the shop replace the bolts for you (they can't remove the cat legally, but nothing illegal about replacing the bolts), then you take the car back, drive home, put it on jack stands and undo the fresh bolts with little trouble. 12mm socket for the cross braces to get them out of the way, 17mm for the front bolts, 14mm for the rear bolts.
$400 for the ignition replacement you mentioned earlier is still you getting robbed. You can buy the entire set of OEM parts from Advance Auto, online with a currently running 15% off + $50 gift card deal, for $182 + shipping.
Replacing everything for a complete beginner is maybe an hour of work with a plug socket ($3), some extensions ($5-$15), a 10mm and 12mm socket and a socket wrench. SOOOO easy. Plenty of us can do the entire replacement in maybe 20 minutes.
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
No, your impression of the cat is incorrect. IF you thrash it on a run, stop, hop out and drop to the ground next to the driver's door, look toward the center of the car underneath. The tan-ish looking lump is the cat. If it's glowing at all (usually starts as a glow in a circle around the O2 sensor that you can see plugged into the side and grows from there) it's definitely clogged and toasted. You are already likely doing critical damage at that point. HOWEVER, no glow does not mean that it's fine. Your cat can fail without throwing a single code. Mine did. It also fried the O2 sensor and I believe slightly warped a rotor housing that eventually lead to an engine replacement, due to symptoms and issues ever since that failure until the engine was replaced.
There is no real way to tell for sure if the cat has failed/clogged or not, just a collection of "if 'yes', it has". But no code, no glow, no power loss, no crumbled cat element, can still be failing.
Getting the cat off is a complete PITA unless it's relatively new hardware there, or a cat that lives in a completely dry environment (like Arizona). The mounting hardware rusts over insanely quickly. The easiest solution to dropping the cat if rust is going to be an issue, is to take the cat to a mom and pop corner shop, have them put the car on the lift and use torches and power tools with plenty of space to replace the hardware with new bolts. A full bolt set will run you ~$70 from a dealer. If you can find stainless steel bolts of the right sizes elsewhere, you can probably get them cheaper. Non-stainless steel bolts will rust through even faster than OEM, to critical brittle levels. Just have the shop replace the bolts for you (they can't remove the cat legally, but nothing illegal about replacing the bolts), then you take the car back, drive home, put it on jack stands and undo the fresh bolts with little trouble. 12mm socket for the cross braces to get them out of the way, 17mm for the front bolts, 14mm for the rear bolts.
$400 for the ignition replacement you mentioned earlier is still you getting robbed. You can buy the entire set of OEM parts from Advance Auto, online with a currently running 15% off + $50 gift card deal, for $182 + shipping.
Replacing everything for a complete beginner is maybe an hour of work with a plug socket ($3), some extensions ($5-$15), a 10mm and 12mm socket and a socket wrench. SOOOO easy. Plenty of us can do the entire replacement in maybe 20 minutes.
I will look out for glowing pipes etc and think about doing the coils and plugs DIY. My costing was really about $100 on top of materials for a very friendly local shop to do it. I have ordered the plugs from O'Reilleys for around $23 each but I am worried about buying no name coils which seem to be the only cheap ones.
I looked at Advanced but couldn't see a full set anywhere.
My very rough estimate was:
coils 180
plugs 100
cables 20
labour 110
410
OK just talked to Advanced $64k question is how good are the coils they have... oh what the heck off to order.
04-13-2012, 03:16 AM
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To add an update. On Sunday the noise was bad again - possibly the chirruping of birds people have talked about as a coils problem. Then it got worse - a bit like a few pieces of gravel in the drum in a drier - made me quite nervous.
The next day it was not as bad and then yesterday and today no nasty sounds AT ALL. I thrashed up the mountain and down again high revs, hi torque, hi irritation - going as sweet as a nut.
Ah well hopefully two OBDs arrive tomorrow and I will be seeking lots of advice.
I have the car booked in for a compression test which, at $110 seemed a bargain. They said they would do diagnostics for $165 but I am not sure what that truly means. I will be looking for all the help I can get over the next few days so please bear with me.
All the best
Steve
The next day it was not as bad and then yesterday and today no nasty sounds AT ALL. I thrashed up the mountain and down again high revs, hi torque, hi irritation - going as sweet as a nut.
Ah well hopefully two OBDs arrive tomorrow and I will be seeking lots of advice.
I have the car booked in for a compression test which, at $110 seemed a bargain. They said they would do diagnostics for $165 but I am not sure what that truly means. I will be looking for all the help I can get over the next few days so please bear with me.
All the best
Steve
04-13-2012, 05:31 AM
#17
To add an update. On Sunday the noise was bad again - possibly the chirruping of birds people have talked about as a coils problem. Then it got worse - a bit like a few pieces of gravel in the drum in a drier - made me quite nervous.
The next day it was not as bad and then yesterday and today no nasty sounds AT ALL. I thrashed up the mountain and down again high revs, hi torque, hi irritation - going as sweet as a nut.
Ah well hopefully two OBDs arrive tomorrow and I will be seeking lots of advice.
I have the car booked in for a compression test which, at $110 seemed a bargain. They said they would do diagnostics for $165 but I am not sure what that truly means. I will be looking for all the help I can get over the next few days so please bear with me.
All the best
Steve
The next day it was not as bad and then yesterday and today no nasty sounds AT ALL. I thrashed up the mountain and down again high revs, hi torque, hi irritation - going as sweet as a nut.
Ah well hopefully two OBDs arrive tomorrow and I will be seeking lots of advice.
I have the car booked in for a compression test which, at $110 seemed a bargain. They said they would do diagnostics for $165 but I am not sure what that truly means. I will be looking for all the help I can get over the next few days so please bear with me.
All the best
Steve
Chirping is typically understood as knock, very common to hear when you turn the car over. Not a good thing to hear once it's running.
Knock -- while the engine is running is commonly described as a crunching noise, like crunching a can.
Both of these are not good, the later typically ends up being fatal for the motor.
From what you have described ... to "me" sounds like knock.
G/L with the compression test and post the results here.
You should have compression 6 readings, one for each face of the rotor and TWO rpm readings, one for each rotor.
04-13-2012, 05:38 AM
#18
Mine did. It also fried the O2 sensor and I believe slightly warped a rotor housing that eventually lead to an engine replacement, due to symptoms and issues ever since that failure until the engine was replaced.
There is no real way to tell for sure if the cat has failed/clogged or not, just a collection of "if 'yes', it has". But no code, no glow, no power loss, no crumbled cat element, can still be failing.
Very interesting. So you're pointing the finger at a failed cat and rear o2 sensor?
/end hijack
You can always go for an etest, assuming they do a sniffer test in your area.
It cost me 30 dollars on my other vehicle to figure out if it was a failed cat (again) or a bad O2 sensor. Turns out to be a O2 sensor.
04-13-2012, 09:22 PM
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Hey Steve
Chirping is typically understood as knock, very common to hear when you turn the car over. Not a good thing to hear once it's running.
Knock -- while the engine is running is commonly described as a crunching noise, like crunching a can.
Both of these are not good, the later typically ends up being fatal for the motor.
From what you have described ... to "me" sounds like knock.
G/L with the compression test and post the results here.
You should have compression 6 readings, one for each face of the rotor and TWO rpm readings, one for each rotor.
Chirping is typically understood as knock, very common to hear when you turn the car over. Not a good thing to hear once it's running.
Knock -- while the engine is running is commonly described as a crunching noise, like crunching a can.
Both of these are not good, the later typically ends up being fatal for the motor.
From what you have described ... to "me" sounds like knock.
G/L with the compression test and post the results here.
You should have compression 6 readings, one for each face of the rotor and TWO rpm readings, one for each rotor.
To me that sounds like bad fuels, bad air or bad ignition not bad seals on the engine? Or am I missing something. I am NOT saying that there may not be another problem but stalling, which it has done only about seven times in three months, indicates something else going on.
**** I now am the proud possesor of TWO OBD machines. The USB was pretty easy to fire up so am going with that running OBDwiz.
OK I cannot make head nor tail of it. I have to do a school DVD, organise a birthday party for Monday (57th - not at all merry!) and am knackered. If any kind soul would help me in how to do the work below I will have it done tout suite!
Love to you all for your continuing helpfulness (but young WCS could u perhaps post JUST ONE post at a time - makes the thread a bit difficult to follow - would you like to edit togerther your posts :-) just a thought )
Anyhow you are all lovely.
Thanks
Steve
LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
STFT = Short Term Fuel Trim
AFR = Air to Fuel Ratio (also referred to as other terms on other scales)
IAT = Intake Air Temperature
All 4 are monitored by the ECU. Get an ODB2 reader, plug it into the ODB2 port and you can get to the data. Better yet, get a bluetooth ODB2 dongle and an app reader for your phone (Torque for Android, not sure what iPhone's is). Reusable and about the same cost as a single dealer fee for reading codes. Get codes, logs, data, etc... use between cars even.
If you pull a 30 second log at idle, a 10 second log at normal cruise on flat ground, and a WOT (wide open throttle) log from ~3krpm to redline. 2nd is safest, though 3rd is better due to sampling rates vs RPM change over time, post it up, and if the issue is detectable in the data we can point you in the right direction. For example I had a vacuum leak once that I never even felt, but it showed up in how the ECU was messing with the fuel trims to compensate. If your cat is clogging, then your MAF (mass air flow) data should be 'off' from what your speed and throttle are asking for
$7E8 and 9 with 41 and 15 supported PIDs respectively.
Too much going on - going to bed now!
Last edited by MauiMazda; 04-13-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Twitchy fingers
05-25-2012, 12:43 AM
#20
First OBD try
Here is a log at idle and a 5 min run up and down as a dummy. Can the assembled wizards let me know if this is OK. I have to drive quite some distance for a level road where I can let her rip!
TIA
Steve
PS Once again the device shows two ECUs does it make any difference which one I select? I selected the one with the most data.
TIA
Steve
PS Once again the device shows two ECUs does it make any difference which one I select? I selected the one with the most data.
05-25-2012, 01:19 PM
#21
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Not sure what ODB2 tool you are using, but having the Time columns repeated many times is very distracting, and you didn't include RPM. However...
Your idle log:
Your MAF data is higher than I'd expect for idling. It's usually ~5.5g/s to maybe 6g/s. Your MAF is showing ~6.5g/s to 7.8g/s while idling. The higher MAF values is causing the ECU to add more fuel than normal for idle. This is reflected in the STFT, where the O2 sensor is seeing too rich, and is pulling fuel (negative fuel trim values). Vacuum leaks will show the opposite usually, so I would rule out a vacuum leak, but the MAF might be dirty or failing.
Your 2nd log:
If this is actually a true log pulled, then there is something seriously wrong with your MAF. It's showing values that would indicate that the engine is drawing LESS air than it does at idle, while you are going 20-40mph. At cruise, you would be seeing around 30-40g/s of air. You are largely showing less than 10g/s, many less than 5g/s.
I'd pull your MAF and clean it with MAF cleaner (don't touch the sensors directly, hose it down with the can thoroughly, let it dry, hose it again). If that doesn't solve the problem, then it could be failing and need replacement.
Very odd tables though. Should just be Time in one column, then STFT, LTFT, AFR/O2 voltage/equivalency (depending on which your tool captures/calculates), RPM, vehicle speed, accelerator position, calculated load.
But before you pursue a new set, clean your MAF.
Your idle log:
Your MAF data is higher than I'd expect for idling. It's usually ~5.5g/s to maybe 6g/s. Your MAF is showing ~6.5g/s to 7.8g/s while idling. The higher MAF values is causing the ECU to add more fuel than normal for idle. This is reflected in the STFT, where the O2 sensor is seeing too rich, and is pulling fuel (negative fuel trim values). Vacuum leaks will show the opposite usually, so I would rule out a vacuum leak, but the MAF might be dirty or failing.
Your 2nd log:
If this is actually a true log pulled, then there is something seriously wrong with your MAF. It's showing values that would indicate that the engine is drawing LESS air than it does at idle, while you are going 20-40mph. At cruise, you would be seeing around 30-40g/s of air. You are largely showing less than 10g/s, many less than 5g/s.
I'd pull your MAF and clean it with MAF cleaner (don't touch the sensors directly, hose it down with the can thoroughly, let it dry, hose it again). If that doesn't solve the problem, then it could be failing and need replacement.
Very odd tables though. Should just be Time in one column, then STFT, LTFT, AFR/O2 voltage/equivalency (depending on which your tool captures/calculates), RPM, vehicle speed, accelerator position, calculated load.
But before you pursue a new set, clean your MAF.
05-25-2012, 05:33 PM
#22
Not sure what ODB2 tool you are using, but having the Time columns repeated many times is very distracting, and you didn't include RPM. However...
Your idle log:
Your MAF data is higher than I'd expect for idling. It's usually ~5.5g/s to maybe 6g/s. Your MAF is showing ~6.5g/s to 7.8g/s while idling. The higher MAF values is causing the ECU to add more fuel than normal for idle. This is reflected in the STFT, where the O2 sensor is seeing too rich, and is pulling fuel (negative fuel trim values). Vacuum leaks will show the opposite usually, so I would rule out a vacuum leak, but the MAF might be dirty or failing.
Your 2nd log:
If this is actually a true log pulled, then there is something seriously wrong with your MAF. It's showing values that would indicate that the engine is drawing LESS air than it does at idle, while you are going 20-40mph. At cruise, you would be seeing around 30-40g/s of air. You are largely showing less than 10g/s, many less than 5g/s.
I'd pull your MAF and clean it with MAF cleaner (don't touch the sensors directly, hose it down with the can thoroughly, let it dry, hose it again). If that doesn't solve the problem, then it could be failing and need replacement.
Very odd tables though. Should just be Time in one column, then STFT, LTFT, AFR/O2 voltage/equivalency (depending on which your tool captures/calculates), RPM, vehicle speed, accelerator position, calculated load.
But before you pursue a new set, clean your MAF.
Your idle log:
Your MAF data is higher than I'd expect for idling. It's usually ~5.5g/s to maybe 6g/s. Your MAF is showing ~6.5g/s to 7.8g/s while idling. The higher MAF values is causing the ECU to add more fuel than normal for idle. This is reflected in the STFT, where the O2 sensor is seeing too rich, and is pulling fuel (negative fuel trim values). Vacuum leaks will show the opposite usually, so I would rule out a vacuum leak, but the MAF might be dirty or failing.
Your 2nd log:
If this is actually a true log pulled, then there is something seriously wrong with your MAF. It's showing values that would indicate that the engine is drawing LESS air than it does at idle, while you are going 20-40mph. At cruise, you would be seeing around 30-40g/s of air. You are largely showing less than 10g/s, many less than 5g/s.
I'd pull your MAF and clean it with MAF cleaner (don't touch the sensors directly, hose it down with the can thoroughly, let it dry, hose it again). If that doesn't solve the problem, then it could be failing and need replacement.
Very odd tables though. Should just be Time in one column, then STFT, LTFT, AFR/O2 voltage/equivalency (depending on which your tool captures/calculates), RPM, vehicle speed, accelerator position, calculated load.
But before you pursue a new set, clean your MAF.
OK will look at MAF ....but a clean MAF was the one thing that I thought I DID have! I blew it clean ages ago and massive immediate improvement, I then got some MAF cleaner and have cleaned it about three times - just cause I can.
Will try it again. But looking at the data (see attached have graphed MAF v MPH) the run data is all over the place - now some nippy driving (lots of gear changes and accelerating but....). On the idle though the values are 0.6 or whatever and on parts of the drive up at 6,7 and 8 some of the time....
More later and once again many thanks
Steve
PS Just to make sure - my MAF numbers are in lb/min are u converting - can prob change units.
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