dude, you are way off. the flooding does not occur everytime you turn the engine on and shut it off without warming it up. having owned two of them, i have never flooded the 8.

i'm not really sure why you're insistent on this fact. this has been discussed over and over that the issues and problems with this car seem to happen disproportionately often.

fusion, if you can at all get the manual, then go for it. flooding is not really a problem... more like a quirk. and don't listen to joe. you might get the impression that flooding is bound to happen to you regardless of what common sense you may hold.

 

TRUST THIS, you will regret getting an auto. The complete experience of a rotory is through six gears of redline. As for flooding, one in a thousand, less if you take a few precautions.

 

Yeah, and don't listen to Joe about the auto either. I drive an AT because I never learned how to drive a stick, and I'm mostly content with mine. Trust me, she can hold her own when she needs to. For safe measure, give both trannies a test drive before you settle on one or the other.

About the flooding issue, I don't necessarily think it's just a "quirk"--I do think it's a real issue--and it may be exacerbated by the facts that a) you live in a climate that has cold winters, b) you would not be moving your car very often, and c) it would be driven very short distances (by valet). The reason I think flooding is more than a quirk is because someone started a poll here about this phenomenon, and over 1/3 of those who responded had flooded their 8. It's an inherent consequence of the engine design, and, if I'm stating this correctly, it occurs because unspent oil/gas get trapped in an improperly warmed rotary engine, crudding up the spark plugs and not allowing them to restart the engine. Unless Mazda makes some drastic engine design change or perhaps allows the 8 not to run so rich, the possibility of flooding still exists even in the '05s. I've personally never flooded my 8, but I also gun the engine to 3000-4000 rpms when I shut her down, per the dealer's instructions.

 

My $.02 on the automatic/manual subtopic that has come up here: If you're going to learn to drive stick any time, this is the car to do it with. The higher idle makes it easy to learn how to launch, and you're going to have an incredibly good time shifting around as you drive and learning the ins and outs of driving a stick shift. If you have any interest at all in getting this car in a manual, give it some serious thought - this is a FUN car with the 6 speed! (and I am qualified to comment on that topic :p)

 

A thread to vent. I didn't think I'd ever post this.
I've had my RX-8 close to 18 months now, never a problem.

This week I got that promo DVD, and watched it Thursday. Yesterday, a nice day. Temperatures in the 60ies or 70ies. Already know what this post is going to be about?
I washed my car. I never cared about the here often described shutoff procedure. I washed my RX-8 probably 75 times (weekly) since I owned it, each time pulled it out of the garage, turned it off, washed it, started it, pulled it in, turned it off. NEVER A PROBLEM.

This time, after washing, I think, "hm.. that DVD said something about completely warming up or briefly reving to 3k". I had never done that before. So I revved it yesterday after the wash for a moment to 3k and turned it off. Now I just wanted to go for a fun drive at night, and it's flooded.

I should never have watched that DVD! I always thought flooding is cold weather related. No way. 70 degrees here today again.

Can I say I am pissed?

I tried the de-flood procedure as described in the book (10 seconds) and video (they say 7 seconds there). 3 attempts, no success.

Good I have a second car. Is there a chance that in 3 days it will have cured itself? Probably not, hm?

Yes, I have the M flash and the "hot plugs".

 

No, the problem will not fix itself unfortunately. You're going to have to get it towed to the dealer to have the spark plugs replaced. Sorry to hear about your predicament. It's peculiar that you've never revved your engine before shut off before, but the one time you do rev it, your 8 floods. That worries me because though I've never flooded my engine, I've always revved my engine to 3000-4000 rpm before I turn her off. The dealer told me to do it when I first bought my car, and it makes sense that doing so would burn up any unspent oil/gasoline in the combustion chamber. Btw, flooding is not dependent on the ambient temperature but on the temperature of the engine.

 

maybe you need to rev it more, like during daily driving...

 

I guarantee you can get the car started on your own...mine flooded in -15F weather and the battery died

with a starter unit after 15 minutes, it fired up...LOTS unburnt fuel burnt in a smoky mess but it was up and running, I drove it around for 30s, never had a problem since

really your battery may be weak which is preventing it from turning over...you respond but giving it gas...then you really do flood it

THIS IS MY THEORY, MOST FLOODS ARE CAUSED BY WEAK/POORLY CHARGED BATTERIES

 

since I have no starter unit, do you think I can use a jump start cable and charge the battery a bit from my other car?

I really don't like the idea to bring the 8 to the dealer. This dealer although only a convenient quarter mile from my house has caused too much shop damage in the past. Dented door, scratched door, cut leather steering wheel, trashed 2 rims, that's all from the top of my head. Oh, the tire inflation to 40 or was it 45 psi?

But the next dealer is 30 miles. Not practical.

Anyone else here who started a flooded car by charging the battery?

 

I have heard the term 'fouled spark plugs' before, does that mean that they are really damaged at this point or would they be fine if I got the car to run following truemagellen's battery charge suggestion?

Peter

 

Funny, the two people saying that flooding is not an issue are from Florida and San Diego. And I love when people change what I said, and then tell me how I'm wrong about what I didn't say. Did I say it would flood every time u turn it off cold? No. I have owned 2 rotaries, IN A COLD CLIMATE, and flooding has been an issue with both cars. I only flooded the 8 once, because I forgot to let it warm up. But to say that it is rare and doesn't happen often is just wrong. Obviously, it wasn't that big of a problem that it would make me not want a rotary, but it does happen. U live in San Diego, what the hell do u know about a rotary in cold weather?

 

Dont worry about the valet not knowing how to drive stick. Chances are, there is somebody on staff that knows how to drive stick. And if they don't, I'm sure they will learn on your car way before the clutch and transmission are damaged. They are not that sensitive. I taught my girlfriend on my RX7, and she isn't too swift when it comes to **** like this. I never had any problems with the clutch or tranny. As for flooding, of course somebody from Florida or California will say flooding isn't a problem. It's not going to happen in warm weather. The flooding issue isn't something that would deter me from getting the car. the joys of the rotary far outweigh the negative aspects. But flooding is real, and it will happen if u r not careful. So if ur gonna get the 8, go have a talk with one of the valet guys. If this is possible, find one that has a brain. Beat it into his head that the car must run for at least 5 minutes evertime he moves it, and to move it as little as possible. You should be ok. But PLEASE GET THE MANUAL.

 

How long did you have it at 3k RPM before shutting it off? Did you shut it off with your foot on the gas or did you let off the gas before shutting it off?

 

Depending on how hard you drive the car and how many mile on it, the plugs may need replacing. Plugs don't function at top efficiency forever and unless you run the car very hard for long distances frequently, carbon can build up on the center insulator and cause a shorting of the electrical charge from the center electrode to the carbon coating versus jumping the gap to the other electrode causing the required spark.

As far as the battery goes, the OEM battery in the US cars is woefully inadequate and when called on to do the no-start procedure is not always up to the task of cranking the rotors at sufficient speed to start the engine. You can try charging the battery and giving the no-start procedure another try, or you can pick up a new battery, fully charge it and try that.

The Mazda-recommended replacement battery is the Interstate MTP-35 which increases the cold cranking amps to 640 vs. the ~300 for the OEM battery. If you have your car towed to the dealer, complain about the battery and they will probably replace the battery at Mazda's expense. It might help to print out the TSB regarding the replacement battery to have with you. You will find the link to the TSB's in the Issues and Problems section.

 

Which is recomended??

 

Make sure your foot is off the gas an the engine revs are dropping otherwise you are dumping extra fuel in. Also make sure you keep the RPMS at or just below 3000 so the secondarys don't open and add extra fuel.

I have a question. Why do the plugs need to be replaced if it floods and you bring it to a dealer but if you can get it to re-start it is OK? Can't they just wipe them off, or does the unburned gas attack them in some way? If so, even if you go through the de-choking procedure wouldn't you have messed up plugs? This has never made sense to me. Flooding + Dealer = New Plugs.

If there is another thread that describes please point me in that direction. It is impossible to search for it because it comes up so often.

 

Which did you do?

 

Did you rev it cold? Meaning moved it, did not let her warm up, .. then revved and killed it? That could have caused it. Let the temp needle get up to the middle before killing it.

I think the dealer will give you new plugs. Hopefully, it will be a one time thing for you... as well as many others including myself.

 

if you buy an rx8 you need a second car, period. you should have a battery tender/charger ready to go. always keep a battery charger IN YOUR CAR at all times. i have accepted this and i am ok with it now. joe

 

Yes, you can use another car to jump it. I had to do that, and I also removed the fuse to the fuel pump to make sure no gas was entering. Get it started yourself. It is dooable.

 

I normally rev mine to 5k-6k just to make sure.

 

The video and book say to either: warm it up all the way before you shut it off OR rev it up then shut it off. If the engine is already warmed up, then there is no need to rev it up before shutting it off. The guy at the local Mazda shop said he never has a problem moving them around if he does one of the other, but he gets a LOT of customers that either don't do it right or don't try it at all, based on the calls he gets.

You would think Mazda could just program the ECU to do this for you - like a "turbo timer". No matter what you do, the ECU will detect the coolant temp is too low and when you turn off the key will do the "Exact" right rev up first....

Dennis

 

If the plugs are relatively new and they are not carbon fouled, they could probably get by with just cleaning the raw fuel off them with a solvent. However, my guess is that what the service people are seeing with the cars that won't start is more than just a problem with raw gas. If the plugs are carbon fouled, presumably over time from certain driving habits and conditions, the spark may be weak or even non-existent. So when the engine turns over with the weak spark, the fuel/air mixture does not ignite and the flooding occurs.

If you can get the car started, it is still best to have the dealer check it out since the raw gas may have affected the cat converter. The comment about driving it hard after a flood is that by doing so, and getting the engine and plugs very hot, you may burn off the carbon that is fouling the center insulator/electrode.

Carbon-fouled plugs can be cleaned with a special sand-blaster-like dodad, but it's easier and better to just replace carbon-fouled plugs. And remember, when the dealer replaces the plugs because of a flooding problem that is covered by the warranty, Mazda reimburses them for the costs--or at least a substantial portion of the costs.

Off hand, I don't know which thread to direct you to. It's too bad that the search function on the forum does not allow a boolean search so that you can find the specific threads of interest.

 

Thanks.

What is the recommended service interval for the spark plugs? Or is that what we are collectivly figuring out right now?

 

That depends on your driving conditions to a great extent. Short trips, mostly low revs, stop and go driving, will undoubtedly result in a more rapid accumulation of carbon on the plugs from unburned fuel and oil, particularly oil. The owners manual may have a recommended interval, but that would only be a starting point to be modulated by your particular driving conditions.

It seems to me that with an engine like the Renesis that is designed to consume oil, the plug replacement interval would be more frequent than for an engine that is not intended to consume oil. With todays electronic ignition systems, plug replacement intervals in more conventional engines can be 60K miles or even more. With the Renesis, I would think 20K might be a good starting point.