engine dies after fuel up
01-26-2013, 07:17 PM
#1
engine dies after fuel up
A couple times now after recent fill-ups I'll start my car and it starts but immediately dips back down and dies. A second try and the car starts fine (maybe dips slightly if at all) and continues to run. I have a '05 mt w/ 69k miles. Coils/plugs/wires are oem and have about 17k miles on them with no noticeable symptoms. It has never happened except after getting gas but not every time I fill up. I use shell v-power and 4oz of idem premix every tank and haven't had any other problems it could be related to recently either.. thanks for any insight, I searched and saw many threads with engine dying issues but none that I read were specific to fill ups.
01-30-2013, 08:32 PM
#2
any ideas, i filled up today and although it didn't die as it has 2-3 other times. It did dip down twice like it wanted to and continued to run normally. Like I mentioned before it only does this after filling up and not when I start my 8 in the morning, after work, or out doing errands.
01-30-2013, 08:39 PM
#3
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I notice my 8 take a couple milliseconds longer to start, but after that it's fine, it's only the initial start up after a fuel fill up, although mine never shut on me. I'm sure someone has some idea about your situation.
02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
#4
I checked my vin and I have the upgraded starter but even if I didn't it'd be coincedental to happen only after filling up. The only difference I can think of is I'm only turning my car off for 5 min max then restarting versus any other time would be sitting much longer
02-04-2013, 07:50 PM
#6
Have you seen a rotary mechanic?
4oz of idem premix every tank..sorry for the ignorance but what is that?
Is it possible that there could be some debris or build up within the fuel line or maybe the tank itself...when was the last time you had a fuel injection cleaning?
My other suggestion would be misfires and loss of compression (not sure of the level of severity)
4oz of idem premix every tank..sorry for the ignorance but what is that?
Is it possible that there could be some debris or build up within the fuel line or maybe the tank itself...when was the last time you had a fuel injection cleaning?
My other suggestion would be misfires and loss of compression (not sure of the level of severity)
02-06-2013, 08:35 PM
#7
No CEL, I haven't brought the issue to the local mazda dealer as of yet, I was hoping to get some feedback here first if anyone had any ideas or experienced it previous. Idem= Idemitsu rotary premix.
I don't doubt that debris or build up could be causing it but why would it only occur after filling up? I'll look into getting the injectors cleaned because I never have nor has it been recommended when getting factory scheduled maintenance. The idle doesn't even dip when I start up in the morning when the vehicle has been in the garage all night or after all day in the work lot. Is there more fuel pressure when the tank is full or something that could be aggravating an issue that otherwise wouldn't show any symptoms? I'm just throwing ideas out there because I have no clue.
I don't doubt that debris or build up could be causing it but why would it only occur after filling up? I'll look into getting the injectors cleaned because I never have nor has it been recommended when getting factory scheduled maintenance. The idle doesn't even dip when I start up in the morning when the vehicle has been in the garage all night or after all day in the work lot. Is there more fuel pressure when the tank is full or something that could be aggravating an issue that otherwise wouldn't show any symptoms? I'm just throwing ideas out there because I have no clue.
Last edited by thecarter19; 02-06-2013 at 08:36 PM. Reason: text
02-06-2013, 08:44 PM
#8
i read this on a question/answer site, does this seem plausible? Although it doesn't explain why it only happens at fill up:
Although the slow starting problem might well be the result of low compression; it also might just be that the fuel mixture during starting has now gone a little leaner than before. This often happens when vehicles get a few miles on them. It also can be caused by seasonal changes in the fuel formulations in your area.
So here's a simple test you can do yourself: Turn the ignition key to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, and wait for a full ten seconds with the key in that position. Then turn the key the rest of the way to start the motor. If the car now starts quickly; this means that, on this car, it is important to wait long enough for the fuel pressure to build up to normal before trying to start the motor. Some cars need this discipline in order to to start consistently. Other cars are not so finicky. As smog laws become stricter and stricter; car manufacturers make their fuel mixtures leaner and leaner. And gasoline refiners add more and more oxygenating compounds to the fuel they produce. This all makes starting more difficult; unless everything is just right. It often is not the result of a problem with the car; instead, it is frequently a sign of an unusually clean burning engine.
Although the slow starting problem might well be the result of low compression; it also might just be that the fuel mixture during starting has now gone a little leaner than before. This often happens when vehicles get a few miles on them. It also can be caused by seasonal changes in the fuel formulations in your area.
So here's a simple test you can do yourself: Turn the ignition key to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, and wait for a full ten seconds with the key in that position. Then turn the key the rest of the way to start the motor. If the car now starts quickly; this means that, on this car, it is important to wait long enough for the fuel pressure to build up to normal before trying to start the motor. Some cars need this discipline in order to to start consistently. Other cars are not so finicky. As smog laws become stricter and stricter; car manufacturers make their fuel mixtures leaner and leaner. And gasoline refiners add more and more oxygenating compounds to the fuel they produce. This all makes starting more difficult; unless everything is just right. It often is not the result of a problem with the car; instead, it is frequently a sign of an unusually clean burning engine.
02-08-2013, 10:17 PM
#9
well I'm gonna run it by the local mazda dealer soon and see what they think. Guess I have kind of a unique issue. Maybe time to get a compression check too since times running out on the warranty, haven't really had many problems so hopefully this is cured by a normal wear/tear item.
02-09-2013, 06:29 AM
#10
i read this on a question/answer site, does this seem plausible? Although it doesn't explain why it only happens at fill up:
Although the slow starting problem might well be the result of low compression; it also might just be that the fuel mixture during starting has now gone a little leaner than before. This often happens when vehicles get a few miles on them. It also can be caused by seasonal changes in the fuel formulations in your area.
So here's a simple test you can do yourself: Turn the ignition key to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, and wait for a full ten seconds with the key in that position. Then turn the key the rest of the way to start the motor. If the car now starts quickly; this means that, on this car, it is important to wait long enough for the fuel pressure to build up to normal before trying to start the motor. Some cars need this discipline in order to to start consistently. Other cars are not so finicky. As smog laws become stricter and stricter; car manufacturers make their fuel mixtures leaner and leaner. And gasoline refiners add more and more oxygenating compounds to the fuel they produce. This all makes starting more difficult; unless everything is just right. It often is not the result of a problem with the car; instead, it is frequently a sign of an unusually clean burning engine.
Although the slow starting problem might well be the result of low compression; it also might just be that the fuel mixture during starting has now gone a little leaner than before. This often happens when vehicles get a few miles on them. It also can be caused by seasonal changes in the fuel formulations in your area.
So here's a simple test you can do yourself: Turn the ignition key to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, and wait for a full ten seconds with the key in that position. Then turn the key the rest of the way to start the motor. If the car now starts quickly; this means that, on this car, it is important to wait long enough for the fuel pressure to build up to normal before trying to start the motor. Some cars need this discipline in order to to start consistently. Other cars are not so finicky. As smog laws become stricter and stricter; car manufacturers make their fuel mixtures leaner and leaner. And gasoline refiners add more and more oxygenating compounds to the fuel they produce. This all makes starting more difficult; unless everything is just right. It often is not the result of a problem with the car; instead, it is frequently a sign of an unusually clean burning engine.
When you turn the key to the "on" position and not start the car ....
Yes this does prime the fuel pump as in it turns on but it shouldn't stay running.
If you have fuel pressure gauge you can see the pressure build then the pump stops and the pressure slowly starts to decrease again.
I don't know by "how much" but after 10 seconds you surely have less fuel pressure in the lines then you did right after turning the key to 'on' position.
You're doing the right thing, go to the dealer and get a compression test and check catalytic
Last edited by wcs; 02-09-2013 at 06:33 AM.
02-12-2013, 08:36 AM
#12
I asked a co worker about this...now I don't know if it's different with 8's versus pistons but he suggested that the hose that runs behind your fuel tank might be loose and needs to be tightened..sorry I can't give you the actual name but it's worth checking...I will say this the same co-worker that says "It's not good to redline any car" (stupid) so we'll see how much his advice is worth. 
05-07-2013, 09:57 PM
#13
update: I did start getting an intermittent CEL. I asked the tech about possible reasons the car would die but only after filling up the tank and he had no idea and hadn't heard of it happening before. Read the code' P0171, which they said it was caused by a vacuum leak and fixed. CEL went away for a while and fill-up issue has not occurred but P0171 returned.
Mazda now stated that the diagnostic shows no reading outside of the normal range and that it might be caused by the racing beat air duct (which feeds to the stock air box). I doubt the duct would cause the CEL but they said nothing else seems to be malfunctioning. Another tech suggested maybe something came lose when I installed the duct and when I searched the forum for P0171 and vacuum leaks I realized the duct instructions never said to remove the vfad pump and assembly inside the engine bay so it was left uncapped with the hose ending near where the air duct meets the bumper. I removed the rest of assembly, capped the nipple, and had the CEL reset. I haven't done the compression check yet, I will before warranty expires and post result.
Currently have no noticeable problems or CEL but does anyone know if that hose or another vacuum leak would cause the engine to die at start up or particularly after filling up a near empty tank?
Mazda now stated that the diagnostic shows no reading outside of the normal range and that it might be caused by the racing beat air duct (which feeds to the stock air box). I doubt the duct would cause the CEL but they said nothing else seems to be malfunctioning. Another tech suggested maybe something came lose when I installed the duct and when I searched the forum for P0171 and vacuum leaks I realized the duct instructions never said to remove the vfad pump and assembly inside the engine bay so it was left uncapped with the hose ending near where the air duct meets the bumper. I removed the rest of assembly, capped the nipple, and had the CEL reset. I haven't done the compression check yet, I will before warranty expires and post result.
Currently have no noticeable problems or CEL but does anyone know if that hose or another vacuum leak would cause the engine to die at start up or particularly after filling up a near empty tank?
Last edited by thecarter19; 05-07-2013 at 09:58 PM. Reason: typo
05-08-2013, 07:05 AM
#14
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A vacuum leak can cause the car not to run, but only after filling up and no other time is odd.
This may not be your issue and this may not a possible issue for the 8, but I had a similar issue with my Magnum. I would fill it up, and it would die right after. Mine ended up being the EVAP system flooding and basically chocking out the car. My problem; along with who knows how many other LX chassis models, is that the check valve from the EVAP to the gas tank would go faulty and let the fresh tank of gas back flush in to the EVAP canister and flood the car in a round a bout way. The longer I went with it the worse it got, and the fix was a new EVAP canister system and gas tank. Dodge never did a recall for it, but did keep at the minimal of 5 in every dealership inventory; tells me they knew it was a problem. Not sure if it will help and since you are not having the issue now I am not sure if that could be yours.
This may not be your issue and this may not a possible issue for the 8, but I had a similar issue with my Magnum. I would fill it up, and it would die right after. Mine ended up being the EVAP system flooding and basically chocking out the car. My problem; along with who knows how many other LX chassis models, is that the check valve from the EVAP to the gas tank would go faulty and let the fresh tank of gas back flush in to the EVAP canister and flood the car in a round a bout way. The longer I went with it the worse it got, and the fix was a new EVAP canister system and gas tank. Dodge never did a recall for it, but did keep at the minimal of 5 in every dealership inventory; tells me they knew it was a problem. Not sure if it will help and since you are not having the issue now I am not sure if that could be yours.
05-14-2013, 08:19 PM
#15
I'm going to see if mazda has a smoke machine to do a thorough vacuum leak check next time I stop in. Maybe there is a small, intermittent leak somewhere. I will ask about EVAP system too if that's a possibility of needing replacement. Warranty runs out nov 2014 so I will certainly get a compression check before then as well. I'll post any updates as they come.
10-11-2013, 08:21 PM
#16
update: so the issue with the intermittent check engine light was due to a small crack in the stock air box accordion tubing, I learned this after replacing with AEM intake, check engine light has never returned after a few months now.
The fuel fill up issue still persists although not every time I fill up? Still not sure what could be causing, I have about 78k and would like to get this figured out.
I was thinking maybe it could it be fuel filter or fuel pump? But why only at fill up? I saw this remedy for another vehicle:
"Perhaps fuel tank vapors are not being purged properly and are allowed to flood the engine as you fill the tank. Apparently, over time the valve gets stuck open from corrosion allowing liquid fuel (from a fill-up) to enter the vapor line. This will cause the engine to run "rich" and the o2 sensor will detect unburned fuel in the exhaust causing the computer to lower the quantity of fuel to the injectors resulting in the engine miss or even an engine stall."
The fuel fill up issue still persists although not every time I fill up? Still not sure what could be causing, I have about 78k and would like to get this figured out.
I was thinking maybe it could it be fuel filter or fuel pump? But why only at fill up? I saw this remedy for another vehicle:
"Perhaps fuel tank vapors are not being purged properly and are allowed to flood the engine as you fill the tank. Apparently, over time the valve gets stuck open from corrosion allowing liquid fuel (from a fill-up) to enter the vapor line. This will cause the engine to run "rich" and the o2 sensor will detect unburned fuel in the exhaust causing the computer to lower the quantity of fuel to the injectors resulting in the engine miss or even an engine stall."
06-03-2014, 12:18 PM
#17
just an FYI in case else runs into this, engine had low compression and was replaced under warranty, also replaced the starter and fuel pump while it was in the shop so not sure what was the root cause but there are no longer any starting issues.
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