Clutch Noise when Idling. Goes away when clutch pedal pressed.
 

Not sure if this was already discussed, but please help!
When the car is idling I hear strange noise (sounds like bad bearings) coming from the clutch/transmission.
When I press the clutch all the way noise dissapears. When driving I don't hear it, but that is probably bcz of the external noise...
Next week I have to go to the dealer and need to know if it's a "well known issue"!
Please help or at least point into the right direction!
I live in Brooklyn NY, and dealer there (Giuffre Mazda) is horrible!!!
First they charge you diagnostic fee 2-3 times, keep your car at the dealership for 3 days and then say that this is your problem coused by abusal of the car!
Please help!

I have same noise -pretty sure its normal . It's the release bearing .
Not sure why it make a noise though - I thought it was clear of the pressure plate fingers at idle .
Anyone know ?

If it's squeaking, then it's the release bearing. I have a bad experienced with it when the bearing failed.

If it's the shattling noise or however you might describe it, it might related to the disk springs. I have a chance to look at the disk, I'm not sure how you called it, double springs disk? springs wrap within a string? From what I understand a sprung disk that have springs held together tight to lower the chattering when the clutch engaged. But the outter springs seemed to be loosed and are bounding/squiveling around probably during rotation. So when the clutched is enaged, the disk springs vibration would cause the noise. If you dis-engaged the clutch, the disk would come to a stop and the noise stop due to no ration on the disk. That's the only explanation I can come up with from observing the disk springs. And this is normal as claimed by Mazda.

It's none of those things. It's called gearbox rattle and it's the noise the gears make while spinning without a load on them. It depends on the design of the transmission and it's annoying but normal. When you press the clutch in, the input shaft stops turning and the noise stops. When it's in gear, there's enough load on the transmission to keep the rattle quiet.

To lessen the noise, swap out your transmission oil with something synthetic such as red line or royal purple. This will also cut down on how hot it feels by your center console. Check the DIY board for deets.

Can you please put a link for this "DIY board " please!

I have same sound too .. i just changed my clutch to a stage 3 , and it fkn still there .. i hate it!

to all you're guys replies.

are you sure??? positively sure???

so this is a clutch problem. but when changing a clutch, a throw-out bearing must be carefully inspected as well as other clearances...such as fork and etc.

a good clutch is a good clutch is a good clutch. but changing that after its gone bad isn't gonna fix the other devices used to separate the pressure plate and disc under "extreme" conditions.

so few question for you is
--do you ride the clutch a lot?
--do you hold the clutch (semi disengage/engage)
--do you SIT through traffic lights in first gear holding down disengaging the clutch waiting until your light is green?

the thing i want you to see here is that you can have a damn good clutch disc, but the sub-components bad.

i.e. your brake pads can be fine, but sitting stationary while pumping your brakes like 10 trillion times and maybe...just maybe your master cylinder piston seals will beat your pads in needing replacement. get the drift?

so in essence, change clutch disc with throw out bearing and pressure plate. just the whole pkg to save your ass. doing the shortcut is like doing the timing belt without doing cam seals, main seal, h20 pump, etc. same as example above.

erico: its not normal.

running royal purple or any clean gear oil will always be good for the tranny. do it regardless. but that is not the fix for the problem.

--(changed disc, but the noise is still there??? i fkn hate it!)--
did you have your pressure plate upgraded to a stronger one? better pressure plate along with new throw-out bearing(shift fork inspected too) may yield better results then just good disc material alone.
think of it as a 2 piston caliper(as your pressure plate) clamping down on some metalic pads(clutch disc). you're weak link is the calipers here.
than if you have say: 6 piston caliper(press plate) clamping down on just semi-metallic pads... see what i'm saying?

ok to clear this up.

if you put in the clutch and the sound goes away, it is gear rollover. it is normal. changing the oil will not change the noise...

if you put in the clutch and then it makes a noise it is the throwout bearing..

beers :beer:

So, does anyone know if the sound of the transmission in neutral is indicative of all Aisin AZ6 transmissions or just the RX-8 application?

I also do want to mention that I did change the gear oil over to Mobile 1 Synthetic gear oil and it did nothing for the sound (just like swoope pointed out) - although I didn't expect it to; I changed the gear oil to improve the smoothness of shifting.

Cheers!

i think it is more an issue with a transmission that is so close to the driver...

beers :beer:

If it goes away when you just put a little bit of pressure on the clutch pedal, then it's probably the throwout bearing. That noise has a long history going back at least to 1989 Miata (Aisin Trans). A moderate amount of noise is normal. If it sounds like you're bathing a cat, have it looked at. :)

Release bearings ("throw-out" bearings) make more noise when the clutch is depressed if they are failing.
It is the pilot bearing that makes less noise when the clutch is depressed.

The Aisin is simply noisy. Live with it.

ahh.. I've also read that some get dust inside them and the Mazda dealer squirted some lube up there to fix it.

Hey, Do you wanna meet up ?

Since you're in Bklyn, I am looking to take my transmission down to do some work, maybe we can do it together, I have all the tools already. but it sucks to work alone ...

oh btw, I've never been to Giuffre Mazda, but I've heard NOTHING BUT SHIT from that dealer, yep they give customers bullshit and charge them for no reason. Dont go there.

if your car is bone stock, I suggest you to take it to Great Neck Mazda, sure I kinda hate them too, but they dont give you too much bullshit on warranty work (for a bone stock car that is)

New Yorker(one of our forum member) recommend Wayne Mazda in NJ, he said nothing but good things about them, so you might want to give them a shot.

and No Im not Crazy!

So, if u're interested, shoot me a PM and we work the timing out.

*Sigh*

I have that noise, its getting louder so I need to get the work done on my Tranny asap.

I start having this throwout bearing noise like 5 days after the crappy shop did the Clutch swap, he probably over torque something and fuck it up.

I read this post and I would like to clear this up as there was some mis-information presented here. Diagnosing something without tearing it apart can be tricky, but there are certain things you can do to figure out what's going on, but first you need to know the basic mechanics of how something works in order to do it.

You guys actually have the whole TOB thing backwards. Throwout bearings tend to make noise when the clutch is engaged(pedal fully up) and the noise will go away when slight pressure is applied to the clutch pedal....this is because when the bearing wears out it loosens up and worn or defective bearings make noise but when slight pressure is applied to it, it forces the bearing's internals back together again the noise will diminish. When the clutch is engaged(pedal up) the throw out bearing sits in the clutch fork which is stationary and slightly rests against the fingers of the pressure plate which is rotating and can present an audibale noise in a defective bearing.

A bad pilot bearing(which is rare) will make noise when the clutch is disengaged(pedal pressed fully down)....this is because the flywheel is rotating while the input shaft is stationary. When the clutch is engaged(pedal up) the flywheel and input shaft spin together, thus there is no way for it to make noise while the clutch is engaged. Now as a side note when pilot bearings are going bad they usually make thier noise as the clutch is being engaged(while releasing or slipping the clutch) and they make a sqreaching noise almost like tires faintly squealing. It's an unmistakable noise if you ever hear it.

These are the same simple principles you can follow for determining if a wheel bearing is going bad. Driving straight you will hear the growling noise but the noise will diminish if you swerve.

It's also best to ALWAYS use the OEM bearings when replacing your clutch. For those of you who are/were skaters or rollerbladers know the difference between a quality set of bearings and a knock off set. The crappy knock offs are ALWAYS loud and rough!

^^ Nice write-up.
Bad info.

A worn TB will do what you proscribe. A bad bearing does what I pointed out.
TB seldom live long enough to wear out.

The PB will grind when you press the clutch and stop once the input shaft is stationary.
While it is loaded, it won't make noise. It only does so when it is spinning unloaded.

The racket is normal...

Had this been an actual problem, useful instructions would have followed...

You now have 30 minutes to reach minimum safe distance...Have a nice day...

I have to disagree with the statement that a throwout seldom live long enough to wear out. I replaced many throwout bearings before a clutch has even worn out and most of them are loose and junk.....some of them you can actually pull apart with your bare hands. I'm not typing this stuff up in theory. I'm typing it up on the actual mechanics of how the clutch assembly works and my experience as a technician in the field. I have yet to come accross a throwout bearing that makes more noise when the clutch is being disengaged.

It seems a lot of people on here are having problems after a clutch install. Once again I stress to ALWAYS use OEM bearings even when installing an aftermarket clutch and pressure plate. If the clutch you bought comes with bearings, toss them in the garbage where they belong.

So would a worn throw out bearing cause a very loud whine under load and through the entire RPM range? The whine disappears when the clutch pedal is pressed (disengaged) but returns when released whether it's in gear or in neutral and get progressively louder based on RPM.

no.

if the clutch is not engaged the throw out bearing is pretty much out of the loop..

beers :beer:

well not so much with the rx8..

beers :beer:

Are you experiencing this in your 8 or another vehicle? If it is in your 8 does the noise dissapear when in 5th gear? If another vehicle, what make/model and is there a certain gear the noise goes away in?

Precisely.
RX-8 = Welcome to Crazy World.

Right, when the clutch is engaged I hear the whine but when the pedal is pressed (disengaged) it goes away.

This is on the RX8 by the way.

It's hard to hear the noise at those speeds and and I can't get the RPMs up high enough in 5th without overbearing engine/wind noise. I am aware that 5th gear is straight through 1:1 so that should eliminate the gear variable.

I've just taken some video with sound from my phone (trying to download it now) but I have noticed the noise goes away when the clutch pedal reaches the disengagement point, not with slight pressure pedal pressure like mentioned before. I'll upload the video and we'll see what you all think.

I finally figured out how to extract the video from my phone and convert it... You'll have to turn the sound volume up quite a bit to hear it. The first part is the noise at idle, which I understand could be considered "gear chatter" but the noise increases in frequency and volume when I rev to 2k rpms and hold for the rest of the video. You can hear where the clutch is engaged and then disengaged (every 3-4 seconds), by the way the a/c compressor is off. Let me know what you all think.

http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/5...071117_3g2.AVI

Man that's really too distorted to tell. Maybe you could make another video with the car outside of the garage and the phone under and/or next to the car?

yeah not good. what did they replace already in the tranny?

Yeah, that was the best sound quality I could get... I guess the most I can really ask for is it normal for the transmission to make such a significant change in noise when the clutch is engaged vs. disengaged when in neutral with throttle held slightly open?

Per the work order:

QTY / PART NUMBER / DESCRIPTION

1 / R501-17-335A / OIL SEAL
1 / Y602-17-306 / BEARING.RO
3 / Y601-17-108 / STEEL BALL
1 / Y601-17-131 / OIL SEAL
1 / Y611-17-325A / COVER.BEAR
1 / Y601-17-40XA / SHIFT FORK

*edit*

Here is a much better quality video clip with perfect sound capture. My digital camera is higher quality than my stupid phone, don't know why I didn't think of it first.

http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/MVI_1266.AVI

That is the normal gear noise.

completely normal gear rollover noise that is.:)

Right. Economy of words.
I shall eschew suesqupedalism.

all that work and it will sound the same.

beers :beer:

Thank guys, even if you say the sound at idle is normal I do for sure still have a very loud whine under load. I was hoping the idle noise would give some indication as to what the problem was. Well, I guess I'll just leave it up to the Mazda rep and hope the decide to just replace the entire tranny. Thanks again.

Wow, after hearing the second clip in your edit, when the camera is set up outside of the car I can hear the wine that you're talking about.

So you already had some transmission work done?

i can see why:) im sure its just a typo and not actually a spelling error;)

Yeah, they tore it down and replaced the following parts.

QTY / PART NUMBER / DESCRIPTION

1 / R501-17-335A / OIL SEAL
1 / Y602-17-306 / BEARING.RO
3 / Y601-17-108 / STEEL BALL
1 / Y601-17-131 / OIL SEAL
1 / Y611-17-325A / COVER.BEAR
1 / Y601-17-40XA / SHIFT FORK

They were not very willing to spend a minute of time to explain what they replaced or why. They basically gave it back (after keeping it for 2 1/2 weeks) and said, "Thats the best we can do...call Mazda if you aren't satisfied". I took their advice and the dealership said they would call when they hear from the regional rep, that was 6 weeks ago and the service manager just keeps blowing me off. It's getting old at this point, therefore the reason I want as much ammunition as I can when the car does finally see the Mazda rep.

Dude, you gotta do some research and write mazda directly. You shouldn't have to wait 6 weeks to hear from the regional service manager. Sounds like they are blowing you off.

One more thing is that you should have been given a copy of the repair order which should have the technicians step by step "story" of how he diagnosed and repaired the problem. Without it the tech and dealership would never get paid by Mazda for the repair, so check that and let us know.

I take it this transmission whine started after they opened up the gear box or is that what it origionally went in for?

Damn Blackberry!
Sesquipedalism.
Whatever. It isn't funny anymore...

yes it is.

beers :beer:

Only because I STILL didn't spell it correctly!
Damn it! FAIL!

Well, good thing for "edit post", though it doesn't save me in your quote!

I'm ready to start making an issue out of this 6 week time frame but the service manager always has a good "excuse" so I've chosen to take the high road and give him the benefit of the doubt.

The work order states they installed updated shift fork and updated retainer plate and bearing. They tore down the tranny for this gear whine issue, when they gave it back it didn't change a thing however the tech claims it got better.

Your gonna eat yourself a bigfoot?

Heh...

Masticate Sasquatch?

I used to have this same problem with a little squealing noise while sitting in neutral at traffic lights, then when i engage it the noise would disappear, this only happened after mazda replaced my original clutch with another oem one, however, only 5000 miles later the clutch was completely worn down, not because of my driving habits, but because of the way the jackasses at the stealership installed it, the new clutch was under warranty and they replaced it with another new one, this one works great and is as smooth as when I first got the car, no squealing noise either, so my question is, those of you with the noise, have you recently had a new clutch installed, as improper installation of the clutch may have something to do with it, im not 100% on how a clutch works and how it is mounted, but it certainly seemed like the problem was in the install and not with the way the transmission works/operates

I have this noise with the stock clutch. I purchased an extended warranty with my car, but it doesn't cover the clutch... But yesterday i found some paperwork from the dealership saying that they cover it for 2 years(i bought it last yr), so let me see what they will do. I will post an update when I will have the info about the repair.