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-   -   Clutch Issue - Please help (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/clutch-issue-please-help-182608/)

Charles R. Hill 09-18-2009 08:34 PM


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3232187)
The radiator issue is just another example of this.

You were the big man, everyone else were idiots. All the other businesses are idiots. All your customers are idiots.

You are the only one with a "radiator" issue, here. The reason I made the tranny cooler bigger is because if BHR is going to be the ONLY company in the world to offer a bolt-in performance radiator for the A/T application, why WOULDN'T I make the tranny cooler bigger? The entire goal of integrated trans coolers is to keep the fluid temps the same as engine coolant temps. A larger cooler offers a greater opportunity for this and there is no downside to having it larger. I also do not market either M/T or A/T radiators as something every RX-8 owners needs and I advise people on a case-by-case basis. The same cannot be said of vendors who have different marketing strategies and philosophies.

I think your memory is clouded. I have loads of respect for fellow vendors who have done things the way I believe they should be done. I have criticism for those whom I believe do not. I also express my opinions as I see things and if it rubs people the wrong way I make no apologies for it. However, my criticisms are never along personal lines as I do not intimately know everybody from this forum. I only know what I think about the products they offer. At the very least, when someone asks my opinion I give them the forthright truth about what I think, how I feel, and what I believe to be important.

If all of this was lost on those whom I met 2 years ago, there isn't much I can do about that. What I can tell you is that there are many people who will still invite me in their homes, trust me with their families, and trust me with their money.

I can do no better than I have and if this doesn't meet your muster, I cannot help you with that.

Charles R. Hill 09-18-2009 08:35 PM


Originally Posted by dannobre (Post 3232190)
Damn....Is it a full moon or something...threads like this are popping up all over the last couple of days ;)

Been a boring summer but Fall is here. Probably some string-pulling going on, too.

Charles R. Hill 09-18-2009 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3232192)
And you want people to pay you? :lol::lol:

Not only do they WANT to, they actually do and are happy with, and proud of, the results. Bummer that you cannot do the same, hunh?

mac11 09-18-2009 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
You are the only one with a "radiator" issue, here.

I was told a couple of your homeboys with your radiation had a secondary radiator installed, olddragger style. Maybe I'm mistaken. Either way our coolant temps here suck for the conditions. Big time.


Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
The reason I made the tranny cooler bigger is because if BHR is going to be the ONLY company in the world to offer a bolt-in performance radiator for the A/T application, why WOULDN'T I make the tranny cooler bigger?

And I keep telling you....because the trans cooler DID NOT NEED TO BE BIGGER! There was never a point in which the trans temps got hot enough to need to be worried about. And because you spent area on the trans cooler, that was area that was taken away from the coolant heat exchanger. And the coolant NEEDS MORE!




Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
The entire goal of integrated trans coolers is to keep the fluid temps the same as engine coolant temps.

Well, thats fantastic. Because the trans temps were 10-20*F COOLER than the coolant temps on the stock radiator. So why you would want to raise the temps of the trans fluid is beyond me. And how you expected a larger cooler would accomplish this is even more troubling.



Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
A larger cooler offers a greater opportunity for this and there is no downside to having it larger.

The downside is that you sacrificed capacity on the coolant side. And that is where there is an issue.



Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
I also do not market either M/T or A/T radiators as something every RX-8 owners needs and I advise people on a case-by-case basis. The same cannot be said of vendors who have different marketing strategies and philosophies.

ok, great. so what? what does this have to do with?



Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232215)
I think your memory is clouded. I have loads of respect for fellow vendors who have done things the way I believe they should be done. I have criticism for those whom I believe do not.

And who are you to say how things should be done?:lol2: Who are you to tell someone with decades of rotary and fabrication experience they don't know what they are doing, but you do? :lol::lol:


I have better things to do on a Friday night. If some people chose to spend their money with you, that's wonderful. But there are plenty out there who see right through. Have a nice night, Ray.

Charles R. Hill 09-18-2009 08:49 PM

You're wrong on a lot of stuff here, Kyle, but I need to go do another turbo kit installation right now so I will see you around the forum. Catch me after SSXII and maybe I will have more time to play cat-and-mouse with you.

mac11 09-18-2009 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232219)
Not only do they WANT to, they actually do and are happy with, and proud of, the results. Bummer that you cannot do the same, hunh?

I can't expect you to know how funny this is. But, it's funny. I'll let you in on the joke one day.

Mazurfer 09-18-2009 08:49 PM

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Charles R. Hill 09-18-2009 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3232239)
I can't expect you to know how funny this is. But, it's funny. I'll let you in on the joke one day.

I look forward to it.

mdw1000 09-18-2009 09:49 PM

I can confirm that mac11 is intimiately involved in a car with a BHR product and correct about his points about the radiator, as it is my car he is refering to. I would prefer if it had more area for coolant and less area for the trans cooler. My trans temps were well under control, but my coolant temps are where the problems lie. I chose to keep the radiator because I did not get it installed until several months after I purchased it and felt it would be unfair to try to return it at that point, the coolant temps weren't any worse than before, and I figured the potential extra airflow capacity might come in handy at some point with some additional modifications.

By extra airflow capacity, I mean that the radiator is visually easier to see through than the stock radiator. I assume that means it should flow better.

mdw1000 09-18-2009 10:40 PM

I can also confirm hearing some BHR people criticize other vendors when they paid visits to our state. I wasn't present for all the conversations you guys are discussing, but I did hear some of them. But as Ray says it is no secret that he has criticized other vendors, so I assume he doesn't have a problem with me confirming that. My personal preference is that vendors focus on the positives of their own products rather than their perceived negatives of others. When I hear from a vendor, I want to hear the postivites and negatives of their product, not all the others out there. But I also admit that that kind of marketing works well for some people. Just ask any politician that has won an election :)

mac11 09-19-2009 12:38 AM


Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3231848)
One is free to ask any of our customers what it is like to do business with us.


Originally Posted by mdw1000 (Post 3232303)
I can confirm that mac11 is intimiately involved in a car with a BHR product and correct about his points about the radiator, as it is my car he is refering to. I would prefer if it had more area for coolant and less area for the trans cooler. My trans temps were well under control, but my coolant temps are where the problems lie. I chose to keep the radiator because I did not get it installed until several months after I purchased it and felt it would be unfair to try to return it at that point, the coolant temps weren't any worse than before, and I figured the potential extra airflow capacity might come in handy at some point with some additional modifications.

By extra airflow capacity, I mean that the radiator is visually easier to see through than the stock radiator. I assume that means it should flow better.



Hey, Mark, what is it like to do business with BHR? Did your radiator perform as advertised?


And where did flashwing's post go? I had some comments about that. Weird. Completely deleted.



Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill (Post 3232237)
You're wrong on a lot of stuff here, Kyle, but I need to go do another turbo kit installation right now so I will see you around the forum. Catch me after SSXII and maybe I will have more time to play cat-and-mouse with you.


And feel free to point out, in detail, what I am wrong about. I would love to see it. Just remember there were a lot of other people in that garage, that shop and at dinner that night and choose your words accordingly.

But, Ray, I do have to say. I am impressed. Someone else designs and packages something from the ground up in their shop, from scratch parts on the floor. And once they figure out how everything goes together, does all the finish work, creates all the parts. Somehow.......somehow.....you manage to bolt it all together. That must be exhausting. I mean, clearly, it is harder for you to bolt a Pettit kit on, with all the parts clearly labeled and packaged individually than it was for Cam to calculate the proper blower size, figure out the placement, fabricate an air to water i/c from scratch and then have it cast and produced on large scale, make an eccentric shaft pulley that properly lined up with the s/c pulley in 2 planes, etc, etc etc. I just don't know how you find time in the day.

It's a really good thing Cam has you watching his back and fixing all the mistakes he made on his setup. Oh me, oh my, what would the s/c guys do without cog pulleys?

mdw1000 09-19-2009 11:25 AM

Coolant temps were still gettting way too hot at track days even with the addition of the radiator.

mdw1000 09-19-2009 01:26 PM

I should also say for those that don't know, mac11 is one of the most honest and generous guys I've ever met. Yes, he can be brutally honest :), but you always know where you stand with him. And he has gone out of his way to help me more times than I can count.

Flashwing 09-19-2009 02:03 PM


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3232533)
And where did flashwing's post go? I had some comments about that. Weird. Completely deleted.

See below.


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3232233)
I have better things to do on a Friday night.


mac11 09-20-2009 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Flashwing (Post 3233127)
See below.

That doesn't make any sense. You took the time to type out a nice long post. Then you took the time to go back and delete the whole thing.

Krazed_Rx8 09-20-2009 05:30 PM

Wow.. Forgot this was a thread regarding clutch issues :lol2:

Flashwing 09-20-2009 11:41 PM


Originally Posted by mac11 (Post 3234426)
That doesn't make any sense. You took the time to type out a nice long post. Then you took the time to go back and delete the whole thing.

Why thank you! I thought the post was nice as well.

Mazurfer 09-22-2009 06:17 PM

No shit!
Take it elsewhere.......all the poor guy wanted was to know was WTF was up with his clutch.

RX8racing05 09-22-2009 09:23 PM

Yea thanks...The parts you guys posted on the first page look good but still not sure what the exact problem is. If that is the problem, then I obviously have some good links to replace that part, but no answers to the actual issue itself.

Jon316G 09-22-2009 09:26 PM

I had to go back and read through your 1st post again because I completely forgot what your issue was.
Did you check the clutch pedal assembly for cracks/fractures like I mentioned in the 2nd post?

RX8racing05 09-22-2009 10:08 PM

I looked at it but saw no obvious breaks or cracks. I am obviously not professional and do not know the 8 like the back of my hand, but I didn't see anything obvious.

Jon316G 09-22-2009 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by RX8racing05 (Post 3239180)
I am obviously not professional and do not know the 8 like the back of my hand, but I didn't see anything obvious.

It really sounds like something with the pedal assembly.
You don't need to have extensive RX8 knowledge to look for abnormalities like cracks and fractures.
If you need to, remove the pedal assembly and look for the same visual cracks as I posted in the 2nd post.
You might be able to just remove the nut on the upper-left corner and see if there is a crack.
I say the upper-left corner because that is where the known fracture point is.

RX8racing05 09-22-2009 10:24 PM

Ok thanks, I will look, like I said the initial look didn't turn anything up. I will get back out there in the morning and try looking again. Do you have a recomendation between just replacing the clutch breaket and replacing the entire pedal with bracket?

Jon316G 09-22-2009 10:30 PM

I recommend getting the pedal assembly "reinforced", I went with welding it.
Here is a link where we discussed this:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ht=clutch+snap
Its a little long to read through, but people have posted pics on their brackets welded or some went with a bracket.
I recommend skimming through this to get an idea on what occurs and how to prevent it.

syntheticdarkness 09-22-2009 10:50 PM

This could also help out https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-clutch-pedal-bracket-removal-fix-170387/.


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