dmp

Dmitri - have they opened the car yet? Is the Pressure-plate in pieces?

My wife's looking for my repair invoices, etc.

shaunv74

I would go in and ask to see the part, take some pictures. Then ask them what the thickness of the wear surface is and what the min spec thickness is for replacement. If your wear surface is thicker than the min spec then your clutch is not worn out and should be covered under warranty as a failure. "If it's not worn out how come it doesn't work then?"

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the responses so far guys... i've got 4 PM responses in under 3 hours... i feel like i've got the entire rx8club community up in arms :-D

The only thing I authorized so far is the $90 "diagnostic fee", so I don't believe they have tore it down yet. I will be making another phone call shortly (last time I talked to them was right before getting on the train this morning)

I am not in the VIN range for the pressure plate thing (post 5)... But I will definitely ask to see the "worn" parts. BTW, even though I am towards the end of my 50k period (which really shouldn't matter... under 50k is under 50k), I also have a 30k extended warranty

For those of you that got it covered, I remember one instance of a spring being broken, and one "exploded" clutch (disk?). What was the exact cause in the other cases?

dmp

Mine was catestrophic Clutch Disc Failure. If your clutch simply 'went out' - that's wear-and-tear and should not be covered. Make a deal with them:

They are authorized to drop the transmission (as part of the $90 'diagnostic fee' - that's REALLY the only way they can diagnose the car, anyway). If the disc is still together, they charge you the going-rate for a clutch (Should be less than $500) job, MINUS the $90 'diagnostic' fee.

If the disc is shattered like mine was, they re-imburse you the $90 Fee, and replace the disc; honoring the factory warranty. (which has been increased to 50K since the last recall)

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Just spoke to the service dept again. His exact words: "we took the covers off the trans, looked at it, and it's a worn disc. it's all carbon fiber"...

- Our clutch discs are CF? I didn't know that...
- Took the covers off? Did they drop the transmission for 90 bucks?

Anyway, I asked for an appt with a mazda regional rep, we'll see if I can get traction with the fact that I bought this car two months ago. If not, lightweight flywheel it is....

dmp

No - he's wrong. It's organic and metallic. I'd bet money nobody even MAKES a CF Clutch disc. At least not for our car. Show him the photos atop this thread and make him tell you why the hell he thinks they are CF.

There should be an inspection cover of some-sort. If the clutch were like mine, there'd be pieces falling out.

Call around and find prices of local shops to replace the clutch, parts and labor. Use that to make sure you don't get ripped off from the dealership.

MAKE SURE you get the original parts back

shaunv74

Hmmm. I don't know how to check the clutch without taking off the transmission and the pressure plate. I don't remember seeing any coverplate. Unless there is a boroscope hole and they are snaking a boroscope down into the bell housing... Yeah the clutch is not carbon fiber. Neither is the flywheel or the pressure plate or the springs on the clutch. Is he saying that your carbon fiber drive shaft is shattered?? They might have dropped the trans for $90. I'd say it's an hour's work for a good mechanic who is familiar with the car and has the right tools. You definitely want pictures and to be able to see the clutch plate itself.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again for the replies. So either he's not being level with me, or he doesn't know what he is talking about. Anyway, I will definitely get pictures (probably post them here for "approval" :-D ) once the mazda rep comes in, and get prices elsewhere.

conedodger

WHAT? First of all, what are transmission covers? Secondly, while there is an access hole where the starter snout goes, I don't see how they can diagnose a worn disc w/out taking the tranny out along with the bellhousing (maybe attached to the tranny) and unbolting and removing the pressure plate. It's the clutch disc that actually wears out and the only way to examine it is to do everything in the last sentence. I wouldn't believe a word the dealer says. They "knew" my clutch died and wanted me to pay $1300 for a clutch job just by doing a simple parking lot test. "Oh your clutch died and since it's a wear item, it will be your responsibility" BS! The real reason for my failure wasn't evident until everything was apart. Thirdly, like someone else said, the only part that's CF is the driveshaft. Go examine it, take pics, and get the details.

dmp

That is a VERY VERY good point Cone- I wasn't thinking earlier. Indeed, the clutch disc is HIDDEN behind the clutch pressure plate.

shaunv74

yep. the only way to get a good look at the clutch is to take the trans off, pull off the pressure plate, and remove the clutch disk and then see what is what. You may want to ask them to make sure they pull off all the electrical wires before taking the trans out...just to make sure they're not complete idiots.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Curious... There are electrical wires going into the transmission? Anyone know what they're for?

shaunv74

I believe they are specifically designed to make your life misreable and bust your knuckles when trying to remove them.

Actually don't know. Maybe there are sensors or computer actuated controls inside. Guessing though.

Here's a DIY on replacing your flywheel which may help with your general knowledge on what they should be doing.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-aftermarket-flywheel-34289/

XRX8X

wow! i have taken out a few trans and i am a owner of a rx8 the only wires you have are for the reverse switch to my knowledge.there is no way the clutch is made out of carbon fiber.they at the very lease should know what they are talking about !first lets understand it's your car and unless you got thousands of bucks to throw around it makes no common sense for a dealer to rip you off!mazda pretty much stands behind there cars.they have had a history of bad transmissions in the past i thought had improved.it seems like if you do not question there work they will charge you and try to get away with it.question everything and have them prove your car is not covered of take it elsewhere for a honest repair.

conedodger

Reverse switch, like XRX8X mentioned, as well as components to measure vehicle speed. An electrical sensor reads the RPM of the driveshaft or tranny output shaft (may work differently in various vehicles) and sends the signal to the speedometer, which then converts the signal to display vehicle speed. Some non-RX8 (i.e. Vette) transmissions also have a shift skip feature that's electronically controlled.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Ok, finally got through to the service manager and got an honest conversation going. They are going to pull the trans, look at it, show me the parts.

- If something snapped, they replace the whole thing under warranty
- If it's "worn", I get a $650 labor bill and provide them my own parts.

An interesting thing he said I would like some feedback on: "When the clutch disc goes, the fibers <friction material, I guess> can jam the throwout bearing" Realistic scenario? It wouldn't really explain why my problem happened so suddenly, but...

Once they pull everything off it should be pretty clear what the problem is... Thanks for everyone's help and I will keep you guys posted.

Oh, does anyone have any good pics of a "normal" and a "worn" rx8 clutch disc?

dmp

BS about the 'jam the TO bearing' part. IF the TOB went bad, or got 'jammed' it'd make a HORRIBLE sound as it scraped against the Pressure plate. I bet the clutch would still disengage and everything - but you'd have metal-on-metal sounds.

conedodger

Well, the pics I posted show a 31k mile clutch which looks pretty damn good IMO. I'd say that a well worn clutch would be similar to a worn tire; the friction material (tread) would be worn down to a point where it wouldn't be too much higher than the rivits (tire wear indicators) or the straight grooves. It's been a long time since I've seen one but that's what I seem to remember. I'd make sure that they show U your actual clutch. BTW, there's probably a listed spec that would be used to determine if replacement is warranted. I'd think it wouldn't be an arbitrary figure or thickness.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Update... Went over to the dealer today to look at the parts. Like in conedodger's case, the clutch disc springs were busted... The dealer service manager is saying that it's my fault, that this sort of thing happens when you drop the clutch at high RPM...

I say bullshit, calling mazda tomorrow morning. Any other suggestions appreciated, guys...

Attaching some pictures...

conedodger

Do I count correctly that there are three broken springs? If I remember, didn't U say that you've only had the car a few months and it has close to 50k on it? I'd bet that, unless you've been doing some big time high RPM clutch dumping, the previous owner likely caused this and U are feeling it. If everything above is accurate, then I'd say U have a case, though probably not as strong as mine (1 spring 31k miles). Since they sold U a car w/ problems, I'd tell them to fix it. If they baulk, U may have to ultimately chip in. Maybe U supply the new clutch and they pay for the labor. Clutch disk doesn't look too bad so it doesn't appear it's close to being worn out. Since our cars lack low end torque, revving them to get a good launch is something Mazda should have taken into consideration when engineering the parts. Therefore, the springs should have been designed to be stronger. Good luck!

AdRoCK3217

As far as inspecting the clutch, if the tranny's are anything like those on RX7's..


There is "inspection cover" on the rear iron, it bolts to the transmission + rear iron. Take it off, and you can see the entire clutch, or, at least, the side.

dmp

I'm REALLY going to dig hard for my paperwork - with the case number, etc...

SORRY bro.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Anyone a lawyer?

So I talked to Mazda corporate again today, and they won't budge an inch. "The district manager has declined the claim, so it's final". Without ever speaking with me or hearing my side of the story. That's fantastic....

It's great how they have the whole system set up. Everyone points their finger at someone else and you can never speak with someone who actually makes the decisions. What a racket. Extremely poor showing on the part of Mazda of Lodi, as well as Mazda NA...

Not sure if I'm better off having them fix it now and trying to get my money back later, or trying to sue them now, or what.... I want my car back :'(

XRX8X

I DO NOT LIKE THERE RESULTS AT ALL!!!i had mine replaced from throw out bearing failure and i am pretty sure a car company would OR SHOULD NOTadvertise 9000 rpm's like we dare you to try and get there then have a part that won't take the pressure and to make the deal even sweeter we will charge our customers for our f/up!!!!!!! SOMEBODY NEEDS AN HEAD CHECK AT MAZDA CORP.!!

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Ooh, it gets better: I just got a voicemail from the dealer saying they are going to charge me a storage fee if I don't make up my mind by tonight. I'm off to call some lawyers...