Car dies 3 seconds after ignition (pos MAF)
Hey all,
2006 Shinka with 76000 miles. I took a trip this weekend and drove my 8 perfectly for the 120+ mile trip and topped off the oil before I left. She ran great for the trip and I went around town today with some family and I had no problems at all when we were driving, but when I went to start her to take everyone home it would die after about 3 seconds and then try and come back by itself. When I say "come back" I mean it would seem to stall and then start back up for half a second then die. I know its not flooded because I tried a de-flood and it instantly went to high rev after i came off the gas slowly. This has happened to me before and the MAF sensor was to blame and all I needed to do was blow on it or spray it with MAF cleaner and the system would work. This time around I did get an OBDII code of P0113 for "air intake temperature". I was very confused by this because it was only 80 F outside today and not that humid. When I checked the live data for my IAT sensor it was coming back at 38 C No leaks under the car and no fluids dripping anywhere. fuel pump is priming and sending fuel to the engine because the engine is starting and running for about 3 seconds and a few times even stalls and then comes back for a second. I honestly believe that I need to just go buy some MAF cleaner because my can is at home. :banghead: Any ideas would be much appreciated and I am happy to provide any more information if needed. |
Originally Posted by ShowHBK
(Post 4605285)
Hey all,
2006 Shinka with 76000 miles. I took a trip this weekend and drove my 8 perfectly for the 120+ mile trip and topped off the oil before I left. She ran great for the trip and I went around town today with some family and I had no problems at all when we were driving, but when I went to start her to take everyone home it would die after about 3 seconds and then try and come back by itself. When I say "come back" I mean it would seem to stall and then start back up for half a second then die. I know its not flooded because I tried a de-flood and it instantly went to high rev after i came off the gas slowly. This has happened to me before and the MAF sensor was to blame and all I needed to do was blow on it or spray it with MAF cleaner and the system would work. This time around I did get an OBDII code of P0113 for "air intake temperature". I was very confused by this because it was only 80 F outside today and not that humid. When I checked the live data for my IAT sensor it was coming back at 38 C No leaks under the car and no fluids dripping anywhere. fuel pump is priming and sending fuel to the engine because the engine is starting and running for about 3 seconds and a few times even stalls and then comes back for a second. I honestly believe that I need to just go buy some MAF cleaner because my can is at home. :banghead: Any ideas would be much appreciated and I am happy to provide any more information if needed. Check the battery connectors to make sure the battery cables aren't loose. If you've got a good connection, clear the computer using the break pedal and try to start it afterwards. (Put the car in accessory and hit the pedal 20x within 8 seconds, watch for the oil pressure sweep). Nothing wrong with cleaning the MAF sensor. |
Thanks!
BOOM! She works now. Cleaned the MAF sensor and disconnected the negative side of the battery to get it to run. I took her around the block with no problems but my traction control light is on and it looked like it just wanted me to turn the wheel all the way left and right to reset my turning radius? Not sure but it's off now.
Thanks for the help and advice :-) |
Sorry to open up this issue again but I was able to get the car home last night with no problems... she made the trip back home after I cleaned the MAF sensor and disconnected and reconnected the battery. When I woke up this morning I attempted to go get some food when after ignition I noticed that my crank was about two seconds longer than it should have been and the car would not idle and just die, but then after three seconds it would come right back and start itself (with my foot on the clutch still) then die again, then start itself, then it finally died.
I attempted to clean the MAF sensor again spraying the sensor, the hole, and the plug itself but the car still will not idle. It will instead crank fine but then die still after three seconds. Oil Levels are fine, Fuel pump is priming, engine is not making any noise, no OBDII errors or CEL on, I tried pumping the break 20 times as well. after researching on this site for a little while and some advice from a friend I am beginning to think i have a bad E-shaft sensor or it may be loose? any ideas?:banghead: |
Make sure the battery connections are on nice and tight and there is no corrosion on the cable ends. Pull the ESS sensor if you suspect it may be a problem and simply clean it off and replace. Do the reset again and see how she runs. That's all that comes to mind at the moment.
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Originally Posted by kevinande
(Post 4605676)
Make sure the battery connections are on nice and tight and there is no corrosion on the cable ends. Pull the ESS sensor if you suspect it may be a problem and simply clean it off and replace. Do the reset again and see how she runs. That's all that comes to mind at the moment.
Could i also get a confirmation on the location of ESS sensor? I found this Youtube Video but I just would like a confirmation on if this video is correct on the location. :Eyecrazy: |
If you look at the crank pulley from the front of the car, it is just below that on the right hand side close to the bottom. It is easily accessed from underneath the car. 1 bolt and an electrical connector is all there is to disconnect.
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Originally Posted by kevinande
(Post 4605804)
If you look at the crank pulley from the front of the car, it is just below that on the right hand side close to the bottom. It is easily accessed from underneath the car. 1 bolt and an electrical connector is all there is to disconnect.
so I went out today and jacked her up and found the ESS sensor and was shocked to see it was the only thing that was clean under my car. I wiped it off as best i could but could not get it loose or off because the screw is rusted shut and I unfortunately do not have a crows foot to get it off. I cleaned the MAF sensor again, but I neglected to mention something about my MAF sensor in a previous post... The 2 screws holding my MAF sensor on are not originals and the orange/black rubber ring around my MAF is missing. The screw holes are 99.9% stripped and only the top screw is holding the sensor on (but just barley). The car will once again, start but the crank is very short and if I give it gas at any point or time it will instantly die. My money is on the fact that I now believe 1 of 2 things. 1. The Sensor is letting in to much air into the engine due to the leak at the sensor hole or 2. the sensor is fried/broken due to not being attached properly. any ideas? I'm thinking of just buying a new MAF sensor and seeing if that fixes the problem. |
*UPDATE*
Found the source of the problem. It was the MAF sensor for sure. I was working on the car today and decided to unplug the sensor and run the car but it would just do the same things, so I plugged it back in and had a friend hold it down and BOOM! she runs fine....there was a noticeable bit of oil dripping a little out of the tail pipe after i got it to run... but now that I know its the sensor I have a source of the problem. thanks anyone who has replied in this thread... your advice helps out a lot :) |
Ok,
Update us please. My bet is still on coils and plugs |
Originally Posted by wcs
(Post 4606818)
Ok,
Update us please. My bet is still on coils and plugs |
ciols and plugs next. if ess was clean, somebody was trying to get it to run.
check the $100 thread in my sig for some other ideas, like grounds. also, make sure the ecu gets to learn after the changes. start it and let it idle until the idle comes down to 800 and is smooth. Posted From RX8Club.com Android App |
*UPDATE*
Worked on the car a little more today and she was driving fine over the past few days to be honest. but we are back to the same problem with the car shutting down after about three seconds or so. I got a new O-ring for the MAF sensor and new screws that were a little shorter and a little wider and now the MAF sensor is on the car and is rock solid and clean. My friend and I noticed something odd though near the back end of the intake system when starting the car up. We could hear an audible sucking in of air somewhere behind the upper intake manifold but could not pinpoint where at was. Now, this is where things get a little weird. He sprayed the entire intake manifold with starter fluid while i cranked the engine to see if there was a leak and no joke the car started to run but had a VERY weird crank. The car ran fine then idled for about 5 or six minutes with me giving the engine a few good spins up to about 4-5K and no problems at all until I took it to about 6k and then the engine shut itself off with a little backfire out the back. Now I feel like i have to take apart the entire UIM to see if there is a leak anyplace. or get another compression test done on the engine, but I already had the engine tested when a got the car a year ago, so i feel like that cant be the problem. any ideas? |
7 Attachment(s)
*UPDATE*
So I got down and dirty and did some more work today. Here are some images I took while working under the hood. Also Attached to this is my Live ODB2 Data for two different key cycle starts back to back. I checked the intake, cleaned the MAF, checked for VAC leaks and everything is on solid. I checked the coils and there are no silver spots or stars under them to show any signs of wear on them. (NOTE! please omit the fact that a screw is missing in one of the shots on the front coil. I put it back on after the photo was taken.) I checked my Oil and its 100% full on the dipstick. I am clueless at this point as to what is causing the problem. The car still cranks really fast and I now get a flashing CEL after the car stalls. is there anyone out there who could read my OBD2 data and maybe see whats going wrong here? I was under the impression that a flashing CEL was for misfires but the engine is not misfiring from what I can hear and tell. Any and all help with this information would be much appreciated and I am willing to send beer at this point to anyone who can figure out what is wrong... I am trying to avoid going to the stealership. P.S. I have seen that CEL code before in the data and the temperature here today was 89 F but the air around the car was much lower then that. Attachment 287851 Attachment 287852 Attachment 287853 Attachment 287854 Attachment 287855 Attachment 287856 |
What were the numbers for the compression test last year? Does it stall only at idle?
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Unplug the MAF and see if it will run. If your IAT threw a code and is giving you incorrect values you need to replace the MAF as they are together in the same sensor. Cleaning a broken one wont fix it ;)
If you have a buddy with an 8 swap his in to try it before you get another one |
Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 4608358)
Unplug the MAF and see if it will run. If your IAT threw a code and is giving you incorrect values you need to replace the MAF as they are together in the same sensor. Cleaning a broken one wont fix it ;)
If you have a buddy with an 8 swap his in to try it before you get another one I don't have the compression numbers from when I had it tested unfortunately and it will stall about 2-3 seconds after ignition AND when I try to give it gas. The only thing I have not checked is the fuel pump at this point but, the car is priming and pumping from what the OBD2 data shows. |
There isn't any OBD11 data that will give you fuel pressure or anything like it.
If you don't know if you have fuel or ignition for sure that is a good place to start You can jump the fuel pump in the fusebox...there is a 2 pin connector that turns it on |
Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 4608401)
There isn't any OBD11 data that will give you fuel pressure or anything like it.
If you don't know if you have fuel or ignition for sure that is a good place to start You can jump the fuel pump in the fusebox...there is a 2 pin connector that turns it on my bad |
*UPDATE*
so to bring everything full circle here I have compiled a list of things that I have done to the car up to this point and I still have no clue as to what is going on. This is the TL;DR version of this entire thread. Car dies three seconds after ignition: Crank is fine, fuel pump primes (because the car IS in fact running for that three seconds). One thing to note here is that the crank normally takes about two seconds and then the engine starts, but now it only takes about 1 or less and boom the engine starts. Things that have been checked or done. 1. MAF inspected and cleaned (known issues before hand) 2. MAF screwed down properly and does not wiggle 3. MAF taken out of a 09 MX-5 and tested but problem still persists 4. dismantled the UIM and air intake to check for leaks (see pics above) 5. Inspected all the coils and plugs (no silver stars on the bottom or issues) 6. Spark plugs inspected ( no problems) 7. OBDII reader throws up code P0113 for "air intake temperature" sometimes (but not all the time) 8. CEL comes on now on occasion and will flash a few times after the car shuts off (no audible misfires can be heard from engine) 9. Tried running the car off the key and not the Advanced key 10. Check the Oil (its fine, but I do need an Oil change (3000 miles)) 11. check the battery, both + and -, and cleaned them 12. no fluids leaking anywhere 13. Fuel pump seems to be working ( can hear it prime, and the engine runs) 14. OBDII data has been posted to this thread and (after research) can tell that it shows nothing wrong with the car while it is running. 15. Break pumped 20 times to reset ECU have not been able to find an other Youtube video or thread that deals with my problem. I will post A video tomorrow of the car having the issue. The flashing CEL troubles me, and after doing research it means a misfire. My own accounts contradict this because there are no misfires occurring during ignition, crank, or during the three seconds of live engine time that I can hear. My work continues on this issue and I am willing to provide anything from pics to videos if someone else may have a clue. |
Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 4608358)
Unplug the MAF and see if it will run. If your IAT threw a code and is giving you incorrect values you need to replace the MAF as they are together in the same sensor. Cleaning a broken one wont fix it ;)
If you have a buddy with an 8 swap his in to try it before you get another one to op, check your wiring harness and the plug, cuz car dies almost instantly when it does not sense the MAF (or when its having connection issue) |
can be a throttle body problem too. my dad's car just had the same problem. it does not want to idle.
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Originally Posted by jasonrxeight
(Post 4609641)
can be a throttle body problem too. my dad's car just had the same problem. it does not want to idle.
Originally Posted by nycgps
(Post 4609548)
to op, check your wiring harness and the plug, cuz car dies almost instantly when it does not sense the MAF (or when its having connection issue)
In your opinion what would be the best why to go about cleaning the throttle body? because I went out to my local auto parts store and they had a two pack of throttle body cleaner and MAF cleaner so I went ahead and got that, but the bottle of throttle body cleaner says "do not use on rotary engines" The tip about the MAF sounds weird to me. I believe you 100% about what you are saying, but I called the local Mazda dealership the other day and they told me that the car "should" idle without the MAF plugged in and I have never heard of such a thing. Was that guy just lying though his teeth to me? |
It will idle without the MAF...and for that matter it will run above idle as well
Does it quit suddenly...or sorta starve itself till it dies? |
Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 4609705)
It will idle without the MAF...and for that matter it will run above idle as well
Does it quit suddenly...or sorta starve itself till it dies? Starts up, runs for 3 seconds, then quits suddenly. No beeps, no engine knocking, no misfires. I'm working on it right now... ill post a video if it keeps doing it. |
Well... the oil filter is stuck on the car and I tapped a hole through it with a screwdriver and can't get it to budge.
Please stand by >_< |
1 Attachment(s)
*UPDATE*
After a long fought battle with the oil filter... I finally won. I had no choice but to poke some holes through and twist with my screwdriver. Attachment 287845 So, after the oil change and ever plug, fuse, and circuit checked the car still is doing what it was doing. For everyone's viewing pleasure I have posted a video of what happens when the car turns on. Keep watching near the end and the check engine light is now flashing 7-8 times after the second turn over. I did disconnect the battery when I was doing all my work, is the CEL flashing from that? or am I not hearing the misfires? In all honesty I feel like both cranks and starts were smooth and sounded fine. |
Originally Posted by ShowHBK
(Post 4609799)
*UPDATE*
After a long fought battle with the oil filter... I finally won. I had no choice but to poke some holes through and twist with my screwdriver. https://i.imgur.com/8C3XVh9.jpg So, after the oil change and ever plug, fuse, and circuit checked the car still is doing what it was doing. For everyone's viewing pleasure I have posted a video of what happens when the car turns on. Keep watching near the end and the check engine light is now flashing 7-8 times after the second turn over. I did disconnect the battery when I was doing all my work, is the CEL flashing from that? or am I not hearing the misfires? In all honesty I feel like both cranks and starts were smooth and sounded fine. |
Originally Posted by azimvsn
(Post 4610607)
If I were you would follow that oring missing from maf sensor. Check throtel body or somewhere there. It is moving arround and playing with ur air control system.
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Whats the update ?
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Swampdonkey
(Post 4612654)
Whats the update ?
Attachment 287830 The reason for my decline to fix the problem was that they quoted me at $700+ and wanted to re-wire my entire car claiming that it was MY fault that the wire was heat damaged and the original botched repair was going to void all my warranties on the car. I had to explain to them that I was the second owner of the car and that the original owner must have done it. The funny thing was, the car was able to start and drive magically so I paid them for the diagnosis and drove off. I know a guy who works in car electronics for a living so he helped me patch the wire and we wrapped it in electrical tape and put a shrink wrap on it for good measure. Looking at my OBDII data I think the fuel pump might be to blame or the idle fuel pump not kicking in. I took my battery down to my local auto parts store and had it tested and the charge was good and strong, as was the voltage. I also think having the battery out of the car for so long might have turned my ECU into a potato because the CEL still flashes 8 times after it stalls. I looked online to several different places and they all say that I would need Mazda to reset my ECU. Does anyone know if this part is true? I will keep everyone posted with what I learn... I pray one day that she will run again... I miss that 10k RPM sound so much =( |
Well I pulled my ECU out to take it to dealership later to find out they need the whole car lol. I'm 45 minutes away from my local dealership :( so I'm checking everything possible before I haul my car on a trailer.
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Originally Posted by Swampdonkey
(Post 4612733)
Well I pulled my ECU out to take it to dealership later to find out they need the whole car lol. I'm 45 minutes away from my local dealership :( so I'm checking everything possible before I haul my car on a trailer.
There is a lot of good information in this thread and the only things that I have not done is Test the main fuel pump, do a compression test, or check under all my tape to see if that wire burned out again. I simply do not have the tools to do a compression test and I am unable to find information leading to diagnosing my fuel pump. Tomorrow I am going to check that wire because I feel like it is the easiest thing to check. Are you having the same problem as I am? what have you tried? |
Pretty much exactly the same problems besides melting wires. I've cleaned the ESS, MAF, plugs. Tried the deflooding method, checked all fuses and relays. I keep my battery fully charged when I try starting it. The car will just keep spinning and spinng without cranking.
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It's the fuel pump wiring again. Sounds like you have a very intermittent problem. I'd just bypass the resistor permanently and keep on trucking. It's mostly there for cabin noise anyway.
If you doubt then just jump the fuel pump relay (the big pins on it) and the car will fire right up again. The missfire code is happening when it runs out of fuel. The ECU doesn't care the cause it just cares about the crank speed. So no fuel, no fire. Not really a surprise The order of events is: Turn key on-> fuel pump to full current using the fuel relay to pressurize the system After a few seconds -> turns the fuel pump off. Probably a feature to prevent spilling gas on the ground after a crash. When cranking -> Goes to full current again. When you stop cranking -> goes to low current through the resistor. If the resistor/wiring is fried, then instead of dropping to low current the fuel pump turns off and you are just running on residual fuel pressure until it's gone. You will get the same symptoms on a healthy 8 if you just disconnect the fuel pump resistor. There are a few threads on it relating to air pump delete. Again, just bypass the resistor and enjoy having a working car. |
Originally Posted by Harlan
(Post 4612830)
It's the fuel pump wiring again. Sounds like you have a very intermittent problem. I'd just bypass the resistor permanently and keep on trucking. It's mostly there for cabin noise anyway.
If you doubt then just jump the fuel pump relay (the big pins on it) and the car will fire right up again. The missfire code is happening when it runs out of fuel. The ECU doesn't care the cause it just cares about the crank speed. So no fuel, no fire. Not really a surprise The order of events is: Turn key on-> fuel pump to full current using the fuel relay to pressurize the system After a few seconds -> turns the fuel pump off. Probably a feature to prevent spilling gas on the ground after a crash. When cranking -> Goes to full current again. When you stop cranking -> goes to low current through the resistor. If the resistor/wiring is fried, then instead of dropping to low current the fuel pump turns off and you are just running on residual fuel pressure until it's gone. You will get the same symptoms on a healthy 8 if you just disconnect the fuel pump resistor. There are a few threads on it relating to air pump delete. Again, just bypass the resistor and enjoy having a working car. Thanks for the info, ill give it a go tomorrow morning... what is the best method for jumping the relay? |
There is a 2 pin jumper in the fuse box.... that turns on the fuel pump for testing. ... use that. You can jump it with some wire or even a Large flat head screwdriver
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Problem solved!
Problem Solved! (Temporarily)
SHE RUNS!!! After ripping off all the tape I had put on the Low fuel pressure resistor I found that the wire was all burnt and had holes in it that were surrounded by burn marks. While waiting for a buddy to bring me some spare wire I decided to try and start her up without the tape on the wire and would you believe it, she started right up and idled for a whole 25 min while I waited. We patched up some new wiring on the resistor and drove her around for about 15 min on the roads and she felt great! I believe this is only a temporary fix because I truly believe the wire is just going to burn out again due to an existing wiring issue with the car from the previous owner. But yes! it was the resistor wiring again! Big thanks to everyone who helped =D |
Something is very wrong here. Either the stock wiring was patched with wire that was two small a gauge or something is causing the stock wire to burn up. Please take some pictures of the wires that are burnt up and any places that don't look stock. It would really suck to have a fire in the engine bay.
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Originally Posted by Harlan
(Post 4613121)
Something is very wrong here. Either the stock wiring was patched with wire that was two small a gauge or something is causing the stock wire to burn up. Please take some pictures of the wires that are burnt up and any places that don't look stock. It would really suck to have a fire in the engine bay.
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