Blown Motor
12-06-2005, 05:10 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Go48
Your engine was dying at 44K miles so Mazda is responsible, under their warranty, to replace it. If you're willing to shell out at least $1,500 for your part of the replacement, go for it. Personally, I would hold their feet to the fire until they came through with an engine replacement at their cost. THE ENGINE DIED WHILE IT WAS UNDER A FULL WARRANTY.
beers
12-07-2005, 12:04 PM
#27
Originally Posted by VOODOO8
Following in the traditions of its predecessors, my RX-8 has suffered premature engine failure due to lost compression. Car is dealer maintatined, oil changes at better than factory recommended intervals, no modifications. Engine started to fade in the 45K-48K miles range. Having been an RX-7 owner, I had my suspicions. Dealer, however, said there was no issue.
Condition remained and now at 58K the compression has dropped to the point (dealer nows confirms) that I am encountering starting problems. I had hoped that the redesign of the Renesis would eliminate this issue, unfortunately my hopes now appear to have been in vain.
Initial discussions with dealer and area Mazda area rep did not fare well regarding warranty coverage, looks like I'll have a battle on my hands.
Anyone else share on similar issues?
Condition remained and now at 58K the compression has dropped to the point (dealer nows confirms) that I am encountering starting problems. I had hoped that the redesign of the Renesis would eliminate this issue, unfortunately my hopes now appear to have been in vain.
Initial discussions with dealer and area Mazda area rep did not fare well regarding warranty coverage, looks like I'll have a battle on my hands.
Anyone else share on similar issues?
12-07-2005, 01:16 PM
#28
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
Blown Motor
My initial indication that there was a problem was Purely Performance related under normal driving conditions, and obviously a "soft" factor relative to identifying an issue exists and then getting support from the dealer for the problem (or now debating warranty coverage for same). I "felt" the change in performance in acceleration and general driveability. Without having established metrics of baseline performance, (for instance compression figures early in the life of the motor, dyno numbers, or similar) it comes down to the perceptions of the individual owner/driver and the ability to pick up on an issue like this under normal driving conditions. There was no definitive warning of the issue via registering a CEL event or similar, and hence I did not get much attention from the dealer when I first reported the problem. They had no definitive break/fix event to tie my complaint to.
It was only when the vehicle would not start, and the dealer could not attribute the condition to flooding or other, that a break/fix issue was evoked and further diagnostics took place. That is the basis of my claim for warranty coverage for this motor replacement. This motor obviously took a while to fail, the warning systems on the car provided no way for the owner to be made aware of same, I did notify the dealer of the condition toward the end of the warranty period but dianosis of the root cause was not preformed then, subsequent break/fix event shortly after exceeding maximum warranty mileage confirmed retrospectively my earlier noted issue and hence my right to coverage under warranty for thie required motor replacement.
It was only when the vehicle would not start, and the dealer could not attribute the condition to flooding or other, that a break/fix issue was evoked and further diagnostics took place. That is the basis of my claim for warranty coverage for this motor replacement. This motor obviously took a while to fail, the warning systems on the car provided no way for the owner to be made aware of same, I did notify the dealer of the condition toward the end of the warranty period but dianosis of the root cause was not preformed then, subsequent break/fix event shortly after exceeding maximum warranty mileage confirmed retrospectively my earlier noted issue and hence my right to coverage under warranty for thie required motor replacement.
12-07-2005, 01:23 PM
#29
I'm sorry, but there is no way i would settle for a 50/50 replacement on an engine it 58k miles. Mazda will have a PR nightmare if this gets out, contact your local news department and see if they can help.
If i dont get 150k out of this motor i'll never buy a mazda again.
If i dont get 150k out of this motor i'll never buy a mazda again.
12-07-2005, 02:15 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't pay them a dime, 50/50 means you will pay more than 4000 euro's for it.
I just came back from my dealership where they showed me another rx8, it's also a 4port like mine and it got 66000 km and the engine has to be replaced because the oil system failed. It's was used as a daily driver by an older man, so it was in excellend condition and not in anyway tuned. They had to measure the compressing and send the results over to mazda, result is they send a new engine, oil system, cat and collector and they have to send the engine back without taking a look inside. Total cost will be around 10000 euro's.So I am also getting really worried about these renesis engines.
I just came back from my dealership where they showed me another rx8, it's also a 4port like mine and it got 66000 km and the engine has to be replaced because the oil system failed. It's was used as a daily driver by an older man, so it was in excellend condition and not in anyway tuned. They had to measure the compressing and send the results over to mazda, result is they send a new engine, oil system, cat and collector and they have to send the engine back without taking a look inside. Total cost will be around 10000 euro's.So I am also getting really worried about these renesis engines.
12-07-2005, 02:38 PM
#31
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Virginia/Maryland
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're not the only one who's nervous about the reliability. I'll rebuild if myne blows because I have so much invested already, with the hopes that building it to more precise specs will make it last longer the second time, but I definitely would not buy another Mazda. But, as of now, I am happy with Mazda, and would buy another in the future. The 8 is a great car and I like that Mazda takes risks, such as the rotary engine. I also like their enthusiast driven nature. Hopefully these engines are just flukes, I know all companies have some duds here and there. But it does seem to be alot of them.
Last edited by rkostolni; 12-08-2005 at 05:18 PM.
12-09-2005, 10:36 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have 19236 miles on my 04 and my service dept just told me that the compression isnt holding and im going to need a new motor.............. now this is two times after the car wouldnt start (from engine flooding) and then them forgetting to hookup a cable when they replaced my starter.
Im very pissed off at this point because ive done what im supposed to do with the service end on this car
Im very pissed off at this point because ive done what im supposed to do with the service end on this car
12-27-2005, 08:06 PM
#33
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
Blown Motor
Update for those who have been following / assisting on this thread:
Dealer completed replacing the original equipment motor with a factory remanufactured unit today. As part of the service I had the tech pull compression readings on the replacement motor. The compression readings on the reman. motor were actually LOWER than the readings on my original equipment motor!!! Service folks then used an older tester used previously in pre-Renesis days and pulled readings in kgf-cm2 (old meter was based on the metric system) that still were under the factory norms in the Service Manual.
Dealer advised that the test equipment they were forced to acquire to do compression tests on the Renesis had been discontinued by Mazda due to problems with same and they were awaiting delivery of a new unit which was to replace the old unit as of 01/01/2006.
For those out there with access to dealer service information, can anybody confirm this switch out of dealer compression test equipment being mandated by Mazda? I'm wondering now if the readings the dealer pulled on my original motor that were well below factory specs (but still better than the remanufactured motor) were actually erroneous and that maybe the original motor was not that bad after all.
Dealer completed replacing the original equipment motor with a factory remanufactured unit today. As part of the service I had the tech pull compression readings on the replacement motor. The compression readings on the reman. motor were actually LOWER than the readings on my original equipment motor!!! Service folks then used an older tester used previously in pre-Renesis days and pulled readings in kgf-cm2 (old meter was based on the metric system) that still were under the factory norms in the Service Manual.
Dealer advised that the test equipment they were forced to acquire to do compression tests on the Renesis had been discontinued by Mazda due to problems with same and they were awaiting delivery of a new unit which was to replace the old unit as of 01/01/2006.
For those out there with access to dealer service information, can anybody confirm this switch out of dealer compression test equipment being mandated by Mazda? I'm wondering now if the readings the dealer pulled on my original motor that were well below factory specs (but still better than the remanufactured motor) were actually erroneous and that maybe the original motor was not that bad after all.
12-27-2005, 09:02 PM
#35
Registered User
The old electronic compression tester,used on 2/3rd gen RX-7s works on the RX-8,or the WDS with a special transducer may be used.See Manual,pp01-10-7.
Rebuilt engines should have come with a compression test certificate ,at least the RX-7 rebuilds did.The compression shoul be above the minimum specification,but the conditions of the test are critical,eg a test conducted with a cold engine is useless for comparison with the values quoted in the manual.The test RPM must be specified,and the graph provided in the manual consulted to evaluate the result.If your tech does not do all these things,the results are useless.
On some new and rebuilt engines,the compression improves with use,it may take 5000mile or more before the peak compression is reached.
Rebuilt engines should have come with a compression test certificate ,at least the RX-7 rebuilds did.The compression shoul be above the minimum specification,but the conditions of the test are critical,eg a test conducted with a cold engine is useless for comparison with the values quoted in the manual.The test RPM must be specified,and the graph provided in the manual consulted to evaluate the result.If your tech does not do all these things,the results are useless.
On some new and rebuilt engines,the compression improves with use,it may take 5000mile or more before the peak compression is reached.
12-27-2005, 10:02 PM
#36
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
Two Rotors:
Thanks for the reply, rebuilt Renesis came with no certificate that was provided to me. Tech did confirm that the tests (both on the original motor and the rebuilt unit) were performed on the motor after warm up to standard operating temperature. You can see the compression test results on the original engine posted by me earlier in this thread.
I appreciate your comment about a break-in period possibly pushing the numbers up on the reman engine, but this unit was WEAKER than the factory engine it was installed to replace by a good margin, and the original equipment motor was well off factory spec itself. Have you seen compression numbers increase on the order of 25-35% when comparing initial install baseline readings to those taken at 5K miles?
Thanks for the reply, rebuilt Renesis came with no certificate that was provided to me. Tech did confirm that the tests (both on the original motor and the rebuilt unit) were performed on the motor after warm up to standard operating temperature. You can see the compression test results on the original engine posted by me earlier in this thread.
I appreciate your comment about a break-in period possibly pushing the numbers up on the reman engine, but this unit was WEAKER than the factory engine it was installed to replace by a good margin, and the original equipment motor was well off factory spec itself. Have you seen compression numbers increase on the order of 25-35% when comparing initial install baseline readings to those taken at 5K miles?
12-28-2005, 08:17 AM
#37
Registered User
In short,I have not seen that much improvement.It is interesting that at our dealership we have only changed one engine so far and that was almost a year ago on a low mileage engine.We used a factory new engine. My view is that 5w20 oil is too thin,I have used 10w 40 since I got it,but I only have 13k miles on it.
12-28-2005, 08:40 AM
#38
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
Back to my question from yesterday; any info on the comment I got from the dealer regarding a factory mandated switch on the Renesis compression testing gear with an 01/01/2006 cut in date (or thereabouts)? Any experiences to share on the relaibility of the initial compression test rig for the Renesis (that the factory also apparently mandated) versus the past model used on previous RX-7s?
12-28-2005, 09:03 AM
#39
.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motorcity
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VOODOO8, this is a very scary situation you present. The scariest part is that you have provided lots of information to back your claim......and I believe you. There have been plenty of folks on this forum who've complained about the Renesis and stated they had blown motors without providing any details. You have provided lots of details and anyone reading this thread should be concerned......especially those that purchased their 8 like me. Please keep us all informed of everything that occurs with your car. Thanks
12-28-2005, 09:34 AM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by VOODOO8
[snip]The compression readings on the reman. motor were actually LOWER than the readings on my original equipment motor!!![snip]
Dealer advised that the test equipment they were forced to acquire to do compression tests on the Renesis had been discontinued by Mazda due to problems with same and they were awaiting delivery of a new unit which was to replace the old unit as of 01/01/2006.
[snip]I'm wondering now if the readings the dealer pulled on my original motor that were well below factory specs (but still better than the remanufactured motor) were actually erroneous and that maybe the original motor was not that bad after all.
Dealer advised that the test equipment they were forced to acquire to do compression tests on the Renesis had been discontinued by Mazda due to problems with same and they were awaiting delivery of a new unit which was to replace the old unit as of 01/01/2006.
[snip]I'm wondering now if the readings the dealer pulled on my original motor that were well below factory specs (but still better than the remanufactured motor) were actually erroneous and that maybe the original motor was not that bad after all.
12-28-2005, 12:01 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's an old thread that caught my attention a while back.. it sounds relevant to the issues addressed on this thread.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...lity+side+seal
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...lity+side+seal
12-28-2005, 12:40 PM
#42
lurking
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EDIT: Several pages later, it seems RB cleared up a few things, and i quote
Thanks for finding that demob05. It's a great read.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
I am with 86 on the fact that it shouldn't make a difference whether or not the engine is under boost when it comes to side seal issues. I don't see why it would be or how it could be. Again this is just what came out of the mouth of a RB employee.
Thanks for finding that demob05. It's a great read.
Last edited by Sephiroth; 12-28-2005 at 02:13 PM.
12-28-2005, 02:42 PM
#43
Registered User
There have been no directions from Mazda to use only the WDS system for compression checks.(at least here in Canada)Normally they would send revisions to the Workshop Manual and this has not been done.The only advantage to the WDS system is that you get a printed report with the data on it---it could be that some district official wants copies of this report.
Have you had a new high torque starter installed?I would be surprised if your man achieved 270 rpm without it.
Have you had a new high torque starter installed?I would be surprised if your man achieved 270 rpm without it.
12-28-2005, 04:03 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: So. King Co.
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
voodoo, the symptoms you described earlier are eerily similar to what i've been experiencing since last wednesday evening. i initially attributed it to a bad batch of premium chevron, but she still doesn't feel 100% under acceleration, espescially in the mid-high range where the 8 thrives. add to that a blinking cel this monday morning during acceleration following a 5-3 downshift (misfire?), and i'm just a little concerned. i called my service dept. yesterday and will be bringing her in tomorrow morning to check the cel. how long would it take to do the compression test at the dealership?
12-28-2005, 05:12 PM
#45
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
A couple of hours and a couple hundred bucks should do it. The compression chart provided by MadDog earlier in this thread is the key to deciphering the results. Also being sure that the tech is confident in the compression tester he/she is using and the validity of the output data wouldn't hurt either.
As stated earlier in this thread, and in others, establishing a compression test baseline to then monitor future findings to seems to be a safe and worthwhile investment for all rotorheads to be pursuing with the Renesis (based upon my experiences anyway). Even if you get good readings (which I hope you do!), it is not a waste of time & money IMHO.
As stated earlier in this thread, and in others, establishing a compression test baseline to then monitor future findings to seems to be a safe and worthwhile investment for all rotorheads to be pursuing with the Renesis (based upon my experiences anyway). Even if you get good readings (which I hope you do!), it is not a waste of time & money IMHO.
12-28-2005, 05:21 PM
#46
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
BTW - the conversions I looked up regarding pressure readings are as follows:
1 kPa (kilopascal) = 0.010197162 kgf-cm2 (kilogram-force / square centimeter.
1 kgf-cm2 = 14.223343334 psi (pounds / square inch [absolute]).
1 kPa (kilopascal) = 0.010197162 kgf-cm2 (kilogram-force / square centimeter.
1 kgf-cm2 = 14.223343334 psi (pounds / square inch [absolute]).
12-28-2005, 07:17 PM
#47
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Originally Posted by bascho
VOODOO8, this is a very scary situation you present. The scariest part is that you have provided lots of information to back your claim......and I believe you. There have been plenty of folks on this forum who've complained about the Renesis and stated they had blown motors without providing any details. You have provided lots of details and anyone reading this thread should be concerned......especially those that purchased their 8 like me. Please keep us all informed of everything that occurs with your car. Thanks
12-29-2005, 12:31 AM
#48
Go Texas Longhorns!
while i certainly feel for anyone who has had engine issues that required a replacement, especially when its just dumb f*cking luck, before people start feaking out for no reason, remember, the previous NA rotaries were very reliable historically with many pushing 200K miles.
Mazda tested the **** out of these engines before fielding them, they had too, they had to make sure that the preception of the rotary being unreliable would not come back again. That, and Ford likely held a gun to their head as it was a huge money issue.
All engines have issues and some small % of them fail. We hear about more of them here because so many people use forums to discussion problems.
everyone relax and return to your regularly scheduled forum viewing.
Mazda tested the **** out of these engines before fielding them, they had too, they had to make sure that the preception of the rotary being unreliable would not come back again. That, and Ford likely held a gun to their head as it was a huge money issue.
All engines have issues and some small % of them fail. We hear about more of them here because so many people use forums to discussion problems.
everyone relax and return to your regularly scheduled forum viewing.
12-29-2005, 09:32 AM
#49
Hermitage Holdout
Thread Starter
Interesting opinion brillo. Given that there are very few RX-8's that have mileage on them that equal or exceed mine, I would appreciate your providing some facts that back up your postulate that my vehicle is a statistical outlier and I'm am blessed with dumb f*cking luck.
Whether others that read this thread choose to pay attention to the information, or to trust in the beneficence of the Mazda/Ford conglomerate, that is there privlege. I would rather have access to these forms of broad based community information sharing that we have available to us today than to return to the pre-Internet age when a consumer with a problem had no readily available way to communicate with others, share information, and gain a broader perspective.
Whether others that read this thread choose to pay attention to the information, or to trust in the beneficence of the Mazda/Ford conglomerate, that is there privlege. I would rather have access to these forms of broad based community information sharing that we have available to us today than to return to the pre-Internet age when a consumer with a problem had no readily available way to communicate with others, share information, and gain a broader perspective.
12-29-2005, 10:08 AM
#50
Registered User
Voodoo8, I think brillo was saying that there are 100,000+ 8's out there and then a very small percentage of those are on this board and then another even smaller percentage of board members have had an engine replaced. I really do hope yours gets fixed correctly, but the engine replacement is not a huge problem in the grand scheme of the 8 and really isn't even a big problem. Happens everyday to other new cars. Brillo, correct me if I am wrong in what I thought you were saying.
Good Luck, keep us informed.
Good Luck, keep us informed.