Whom should I believe? or Whose noumena is more real?
Zoom44: I just restarted this discussion i guess
BRealistic: I am going to see what Mazda does and since the car is leased I might just leave it alone. Although I am leaning to a highflow cat. As to which one, I have no idea yet. Hope you get unblocked soon the forum is dying without u.
BRealistic: I am going to see what Mazda does and since the car is leased I might just leave it alone. Although I am leaning to a highflow cat. As to which one, I have no idea yet. Hope you get unblocked soon the forum is dying without u.
Rotary til I die
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Chris,
Your exam must be in debate 101 (straw argument) I think your missing the point. Both can be right a 2hp and an 8 hp gain from the same part. How can both be right - like they've tried to explain in numerous post, RB with their test car showed only a 2 hp gain on their dyno on the day they tested it. SR and RP both tested different cars on different days on differing dynos.
The main difference and worth looking into is the cat design itself from all the companies. The pipe diameter, catalytic brick used, etc. Maybe RB used a design or brick that barely flowed better than stock but SR and RP tried something else and it worked. Random technologies makes alot of aftermarket hi-flow cats, maybe they've tested one and see what they made as well.
BTW, RX tuner isn't a big enough magazine to test 10 different car in 1 spot for verification of any type of dyno comparison, hell it's only 2 guys putting it out. As for SCC, dream on and for the same reasons. They might do it for a civic or something cheap and mass produced like they did for their exhaust and header comparisons, but again it was on 1 car, not 10 so they could eliminate any car to car variance to a minimum since it's just 1 car.
Tim
Your exam must be in debate 101 (straw argument)
I think your missing the point. Both can be right a 2hp and an 8 hp gain from the same part. How can both be right - like they've tried to explain in numerous post, RB with their test car showed only a 2 hp gain on their dyno on the day they tested it. SR and RP both tested different cars on different days on differing dynos. The main difference and worth looking into is the cat design itself from all the companies. The pipe diameter, catalytic brick used, etc. Maybe RB used a design or brick that barely flowed better than stock but SR and RP tried something else and it worked. Random technologies makes alot of aftermarket hi-flow cats, maybe they've tested one and see what they made as well.
BTW, RX tuner isn't a big enough magazine to test 10 different car in 1 spot for verification of any type of dyno comparison, hell it's only 2 guys putting it out. As for SCC, dream on and for the same reasons. They might do it for a civic or something cheap and mass produced like they did for their exhaust and header comparisons, but again it was on 1 car, not 10 so they could eliminate any car to car variance to a minimum since it's just 1 car.
Tim
Last edited by Tim Benton; Dec 16, 2005 at 12:28 AM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
Originally Posted by Chris_Bangle
Rotarygod:
You have not read my previous post and have not responded to my questions, instead you have chosen to single out one concept and concentrate on it: this is classic example of a straw argument. Frankly I have nothing to add to my previous post, thanks for the help overall.
Overall however, I am going to wait and see how Mazda is going to squeeze our more HP out of the car (Car and Driver 10best link below)... And then decide to the mod that I am going to do.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10363
You have not read my previous post and have not responded to my questions, instead you have chosen to single out one concept and concentrate on it: this is classic example of a straw argument. Frankly I have nothing to add to my previous post, thanks for the help overall.
Overall however, I am going to wait and see how Mazda is going to squeeze our more HP out of the car (Car and Driver 10best link below)... And then decide to the mod that I am going to do.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10363
Now for some real world testimony on at least part of the issue/question at hand....
I have measured consistent changes in performance to the tune of .3s when I switch from using the stock catpipe to using my Bonez 3" cat-less midpipe. With current hp/weight ratios that indicates about a 10-15 hp gain. My guess is that the cat itself poses a bigger restriction than the factory pipe size when compared to the cat-less pipe. That is also without any PCM mods as I still use the factory PCM. Of course, the CEL comes on when I use my cat-less pipe(which is all the time) but that is another thread altogether.
Bespoke Ventures' Ben Schaffer recently wrote an article for Modified Magazine where, in part, he discussed how in Japan performance media exhaust output is listed right alongside hp and torque figures. Apparently, Japanese tuners are just as proud of the performance of their catalysts as they are their engines. With this he also mentioned that Japanese race teams are mandated by their sanctioning bodies to use high-performance cats on their race cars and that these cats cost in the neighborhood of $2,000 each but will flow enough to easily support 700+ h.p.
Should I contact Ben about importing these $2,000 cats for the RX-8?
CRH
I have measured consistent changes in performance to the tune of .3s when I switch from using the stock catpipe to using my Bonez 3" cat-less midpipe. With current hp/weight ratios that indicates about a 10-15 hp gain. My guess is that the cat itself poses a bigger restriction than the factory pipe size when compared to the cat-less pipe. That is also without any PCM mods as I still use the factory PCM. Of course, the CEL comes on when I use my cat-less pipe(which is all the time) but that is another thread altogether.
Bespoke Ventures' Ben Schaffer recently wrote an article for Modified Magazine where, in part, he discussed how in Japan performance media exhaust output is listed right alongside hp and torque figures. Apparently, Japanese tuners are just as proud of the performance of their catalysts as they are their engines. With this he also mentioned that Japanese race teams are mandated by their sanctioning bodies to use high-performance cats on their race cars and that these cats cost in the neighborhood of $2,000 each but will flow enough to easily support 700+ h.p.
Should I contact Ben about importing these $2,000 cats for the RX-8?
CRH
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
From: Visalia, CA
I personally think that Racing Beat's numbers did come from somewhere, but those numbers are also pretty old now.
The TurboXS testing has already shown Racing Beat's numbers to be off as far as their max hp gains, and they did it with member of the forum.
I've bought around $1k of parts from Racing Beat and have been very happy with them. Like everyone else's numbers, they are just best guess from the test they performed. I feel the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Racing Beat seems publishes VERY conservative numbers, while most other seems to post overly optimistic numbers.
The TurboXS testing has already shown Racing Beat's numbers to be off as far as their max hp gains, and they did it with member of the forum.
I've bought around $1k of parts from Racing Beat and have been very happy with them. Like everyone else's numbers, they are just best guess from the test they performed. I feel the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Racing Beat seems publishes VERY conservative numbers, while most other seems to post overly optimistic numbers.
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