Using engine in plane
11-20-2014, 06:54 PM
#1
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Using engine in plane
Hi I'm Matt from Canada. I'm going to build a plane and use the rotary engine for the powerplant (13b-msp). Learning a lot about rotary's here and on the rx7 club.
Last edited by MolsonB; 11-20-2014 at 11:28 PM. Reason: added engine type
11-20-2014, 07:06 PM
#3
You gonna eat that?
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Are you talking about a Renesis rotary?
If so, be sure you read the new owner stickies.
I love my RX8, but I don't think I'd want to fly in a plane that had a Renny.
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sinkas (01-05-2020)
11-20-2014, 08:44 PM
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One of the reasons the rotary engine was used in aviation applications is you can lose a rotor and it will still have enough power to fly and land the plane safely.
I agree with ^ I would not use a Renny.
I would use a 12a or 13b from a Rx7 you will save yourself an electronic nightmare.
The carbed 12a would probably be the easiest depending on how much horsepower you need.
I had a 81 rx7 that had over 300k on the original engine, so from that standpoint I think the older engines are more reliable than the Renesis.
Bottom line it all depends on how well you maintain it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
I agree with ^ I would not use a Renny.
I would use a 12a or 13b from a Rx7 you will save yourself an electronic nightmare.
The carbed 12a would probably be the easiest depending on how much horsepower you need.
I had a 81 rx7 that had over 300k on the original engine, so from that standpoint I think the older engines are more reliable than the Renesis.
Bottom line it all depends on how well you maintain it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
11-20-2014, 09:46 PM
#9
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Opss I forgot to say what engine. Yes a 2008 13b-msp engine.
I've already ordered the overhaul kit from Rotary Aviation. There isn't too much info on their website now that Tracy is retired.
My game plan so far is...
Get the iron plates lapped and re-nitriding by Chips Motorsports. Also p-port the intake with a side throttle. The rotor housings have a chip in them right by the exhaust ports (both of them, same spot) and I'll have to find new ones. (Rotor housing chipped near exhaust (13b-msp) - RX7Club.com)
I'm only looking for a max of 200-250hp @ 7500rpm. Cruise will be around 6500rpm. The side exhaust ports should work in our advantage because we can throw a massive amount of air at the engine body to cool it down. I'd rather let the engine block soak some of the heat up with the sideport then put a 10ft long exhaust pipe on to try and deal with the hot exhaust. So the aviation world has some trade-offs vs a car.
The only mod I can see if get the higher oil pressure regulator, maybe the re-medy water pump? The fuel injectors and spark are in the works and will be run from a simple basic microprocessor. Not sure how that all works just get, but others are in the works about it.
The airplane will be a Team Tango 2 xr. I'm pretty excited for this adventure, my head is overloaded with so much research and questions.
I've already ordered the overhaul kit from Rotary Aviation. There isn't too much info on their website now that Tracy is retired.
My game plan so far is...
Get the iron plates lapped and re-nitriding by Chips Motorsports. Also p-port the intake with a side throttle. The rotor housings have a chip in them right by the exhaust ports (both of them, same spot) and I'll have to find new ones. (Rotor housing chipped near exhaust (13b-msp) - RX7Club.com)
I'm only looking for a max of 200-250hp @ 7500rpm. Cruise will be around 6500rpm. The side exhaust ports should work in our advantage because we can throw a massive amount of air at the engine body to cool it down. I'd rather let the engine block soak some of the heat up with the sideport then put a 10ft long exhaust pipe on to try and deal with the hot exhaust. So the aviation world has some trade-offs vs a car.
The only mod I can see if get the higher oil pressure regulator, maybe the re-medy water pump? The fuel injectors and spark are in the works and will be run from a simple basic microprocessor. Not sure how that all works just get, but others are in the works about it.
The airplane will be a Team Tango 2 xr. I'm pretty excited for this adventure, my head is overloaded with so much research and questions.
Last edited by MolsonB; 11-21-2014 at 01:16 PM.
11-21-2014, 07:38 PM
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These engines are balanced to run up to 10,000RPM without damage (and under load from the road/transmission etc,) so they should run at 7500 all day without batting an eye.
Your biggest hurdles will be
Electrical/ECU
Heat management (radiator capacity vs weight) you still need enough thermal capacity to keep temps in check during engine start, taxi and climbout but a massive radiator will add a crap-ton of water weight.
Your biggest hurdles will be
Electrical/ECU
Heat management (radiator capacity vs weight) you still need enough thermal capacity to keep temps in check during engine start, taxi and climbout but a massive radiator will add a crap-ton of water weight.
11-21-2014, 07:56 PM
#12
It's balanced to well above 10k rpm. I once read somewhere that with the stock port configuration at ~13k RPM the resonance inside the housings causes destruction, rather than rotor/housing collisions.
He's building his own plane, I'm sure he knows how to handle those things better than any of us. I don't think allot of the people here know how ideal something like our engine is for aircraft. They do great at constant load/high rpm, and they weigh hundreds of pounds less than the equivalent N/A engine.
I'd also consider going boosted, depending on your altitudes
He's building his own plane, I'm sure he knows how to handle those things better than any of us. I don't think allot of the people here know how ideal something like our engine is for aircraft. They do great at constant load/high rpm, and they weigh hundreds of pounds less than the equivalent N/A engine.
I'd also consider going boosted, depending on your altitudes
11-21-2014, 08:19 PM
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I would not say 'he know how to handle xxxxxxx'... lol. I'm just a simple guy that is taking his love for cars and branching out to planes. I'm by no means an expert and learning a lot from these sites every night. We (the aviation community) have it easier with cooling as we can focus a large amount of cold/fresh air with the right cowl design over the rad and engine.
For this plane, I'll already have more HP then allowed, no need for turbo. BUT maybe in a few years when I do a 4 seater, I'll need more HP with a turbo.
The oil jets mod, is Atkins the only place to get them?
69-11 Rx7 & Rx8 Competition Eccentric Shaft Oil...
For this plane, I'll already have more HP then allowed, no need for turbo. BUT maybe in a few years when I do a 4 seater, I'll need more HP with a turbo.
The oil jets mod, is Atkins the only place to get them?
69-11 Rx7 & Rx8 Competition Eccentric Shaft Oil...
11-21-2014, 08:55 PM
#14
Driving my unreliable rx8
You have that but at altitude the air is thinner and will carry away less btus for the same flow rate. But then again it should never be blocked and can be run behind the prop. You also have a lot more power since you don't have drivetrain losses
11-22-2014, 07:28 AM
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I feel the trade off nulls each other out. I'm sure someone smart can break out the math and prove me wrong down to the perfect equation.
Yes thinner air (density) to transfer heat and thinner air to enter engine combustion and thinner air for lift of wings but that also means less air hitting the plane causing drag on airframe.
A. need less hp to maintain same speed, less heat and gas burning
B. keep same hp but will now travel faster through the thin air gathering more thin air to cool
That's always been my understanding. Now I'm only talking about 10,000ft where there's still oxygen. I don't/can't fly where I need o2 bottle.
Yes thinner air (density) to transfer heat and thinner air to enter engine combustion and thinner air for lift of wings but that also means less air hitting the plane causing drag on airframe.
A. need less hp to maintain same speed, less heat and gas burning
B. keep same hp but will now travel faster through the thin air gathering more thin air to cool
That's always been my understanding. Now I'm only talking about 10,000ft where there's still oxygen. I don't/can't fly where I need o2 bottle.
12-01-2014, 12:10 AM
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I'm not sure on the ECU yet... There is Tracy Crook product out there if you can find used. I believe some others are in the works now with a simple microprocessor. I still have a few months before I get to that point...
With the Weber Jet Kit, what's the point of Atkins Rotary plugs?69-11 Rx7 & Rx8 Competition High Flow Eccentric...
Can't you just buy the Weber carbs and push them in using the stock plugs?
Also, Atkins vs Mazmart for the oil pressure regulator upgrade? Only difference is $15? Same part?
With the Weber Jet Kit, what's the point of Atkins Rotary plugs?69-11 Rx7 & Rx8 Competition High Flow Eccentric...
Can't you just buy the Weber carbs and push them in using the stock plugs?
Also, Atkins vs Mazmart for the oil pressure regulator upgrade? Only difference is $15? Same part?
01-04-2015, 10:14 PM
#18
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Aviation Engine
I finally passed the month waiting period and can finally post in here. I'll be using a 2008 13B-MSP rotary in a plane I'll starting to build tomorrow.
*Things that are done*
-Side housings have been re-nitrated by Chips Motorsports (They look great)
-Rotary Aviation overhaul kit with RA Super Seals.
-New stock rotor housings (p-port mod, see below)
*Things I'll buy*
-Stock FD oil pressure regulator
-Eccentric shaft oil jets
*Things to talk about*
1. Water jackets mod. I will have a ton of air to cool the engine down, will mold the shroud to flow air right into the rad.
2. P-Port
Some aviation people are having success welding to the chrome
Join5
Or
Press fit a sleeve in with o-rings like most of you have done for your racing engines? Some coolant will leak at start-up, then stop once everything warms up and metal expands.
3. Max rpm will be 7500 with cruise around 6500. I'll want to slow down the alternator. Will I also slow down the water pump for cavitation or keep the same speed and buy Re-medy highflow pump? Again, keeping my RPM's max in mind. Stick with stock water pump, stock pully
-Matt
*Things that are done*
-Side housings have been re-nitrated by Chips Motorsports (They look great)
-Rotary Aviation overhaul kit with RA Super Seals.
-New stock rotor housings (p-port mod, see below)
*Things I'll buy*
-Stock FD oil pressure regulator
-Eccentric shaft oil jets
*Things to talk about*
1. Water jackets mod. I will have a ton of air to cool the engine down, will mold the shroud to flow air right into the rad.
2. P-Port
Some aviation people are having success welding to the chrome
Join5
Or
Press fit a sleeve in with o-rings like most of you have done for your racing engines? Some coolant will leak at start-up, then stop once everything warms up and metal expands.
3. Max rpm will be 7500 with cruise around 6500. I'll want to slow down the alternator. Will I also slow down the water pump for cavitation or keep the same speed and buy Re-medy highflow pump? Again, keeping my RPM's max in mind. Stick with stock water pump, stock pully
-Matt
Last edited by MolsonB; 01-05-2015 at 08:59 PM.
01-05-2015, 02:24 PM
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No idea where this thread should really belong though. I think the Lounge is the only area of the forum that isn't car-specific. I guess i'll move it to Tech for now, since most of the discussion is probably going to be tech related to the engine.
No idea where this thread should really belong though. I think the Lounge is the only area of the forum that isn't car-specific. I guess i'll move it to Tech for now, since most of the discussion is probably going to be tech related to the engine.
01-05-2015, 03:32 PM
#22
The REmedy pump is NOT high flow, it just has far smaller vapor regions and more predictable cavitation when it shows up. The OEM pump with the stock pulley is perfect for your RPM range, especially considering that you won't be accelerating very quickly or often.
Cavitation and flow won't be issues, don't slow it down or change pumps.
Cavitation and flow won't be issues, don't slow it down or change pumps.
01-05-2015, 08:58 PM
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I really didn't know where to put the posts either. It didn't belong in the 'newbie' forum, but that was the only place I could put it by being a 'newbie' until the month restriction was lifted. This will mostly be about the engine build, but of course I'll update with pics once the plane takes shape.
Already on Paul's newsletter.
Thanks Legot, that is good news about the stock water pump. Since my RPM's will be normal range, I was thinking OEM would be fine but wanted to make sure with the aftermarket world.
What about the alternator? My first take on it, would be the need to slow down the alt. Constant 6500rpm wouldn't be to nice from the heat generated for no real charging reasons. Any companies make larger pully's to slow it down?
Already on Paul's newsletter.
Thanks Legot, that is good news about the stock water pump. Since my RPM's will be normal range, I was thinking OEM would be fine but wanted to make sure with the aftermarket world.
What about the alternator? My first take on it, would be the need to slow down the alt. Constant 6500rpm wouldn't be to nice from the heat generated for no real charging reasons. Any companies make larger pully's to slow it down?
