paradigm

Here's the part that failed. It's a bearing retainer.

paradigm

Another pic...

paradigm

Here's the back side.

Omicron

Interesting. Covered under warranty, I assume? And what exactly happened? Were you stranded, or did the tranny just start making funny coffee-grinder noises?

paradigm

I wasn't stranded. This happened at moroso about a week ago. Clutch drop @ 6500rpms with 30psi of tire pressure wasn't enough to break 'em loose. HORRIBLE wheel hop. I made it down the track but when I went to go pull away from the timeslip booth 1st gear was gone. It would just grind and not go anywhere. Reverse was gone too, and the 2nd gear synchros were shot. I guess what happened was the wheel hop caused this retainer to fail, which caused some bearings to be displaced, which then allowed the synchros/gears to move freely on the shaft.

The dealership I took it to is covering it. I took it in last friday, and my new tranny should be here today. I may have the car back by tomorrow.

Here's a picture of our gears, just for the hell of it

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I have numerous complaints on record at my dealer re: noisy tranny when out of gear and clutch pedal released. Did your trans happen to exhibit this symptom prior to the failure? Thx.

Charles

legokcen

ok, no more high rpm clutch drops for me anymore.

RX8Sooner

Mine's in the shop right now for tranny work. Went to the track last weekend and second gear was not wanting to engage (5 out of 8 runs took 2 or more time to hit second). Took it to MAZDA on Monday and they said that nothing was wrong (claimed I did not know how to drive it, btw had since Nov and have missed 2 gears on a Daily Driver), had me come out to drive it with them. It scratched on me once (9100, was trying to drive it hard) but they again claimed I just missed. They had me convinced something was wrong with me, so I went to drive it home and no sooner had I left then it was scratching almost everytime again. I'm checking my shifting technique, thinking maybe I am just that bad (been driving a stick for 8 years, but maybe being a tight short shift). Next thing I know I can not hardly shift. It became physical work to shift in all gears and even lateral movement in neutral. I took it back, telling them I wasn't crazy and MAZDA is looking at it now. They at least agree something is wrong now. The National MAZDA service has taken an interest in my car to see what is wrong so they are dismantling the entire tranny, and THEN are just going to replace it. So I am out of commision for a week and a half. Driving a Nissan Altima as a "comparable" rental, yeah right.

I will update when MAZDA tells me what they find, should have cracked it all open today.

Anyone else had similar problems? I know I was reading somewhere on here about someone racing and having trouble getting to 4th. Let me know.

Thanks

RX8Sooner

AlexCisneros

rjacobs

WOW, that is all I can say. That is some crazy *** damage. What would make a bearing retainer fail like that? Bearings are not supposed to move if I am not mistaken.

neit_jnf

So is the 5th gear (1:1) a direct link from the engine to the driveshaft ?

pgtr

Great pics! I'd GUESS that bearing is the one right at teh input shaft behind the bell housing? The clutch is supposed to be the weak link - guess it didnt' work out that way. I'm no longer interested in modding engines but for those of you that are ... may want to sit up and take notice...?

---

2nd gear is always the toughest one on synchros it seems because it's a straigth throw for the driver and torque is still being heavily multiplied... I don't know what to say at 9K rpm - that's a tall order for a synchro to perform consistently and cleanly over and over... (see my comments below re oil)

---

If you are hearing noise idlingin neutral verify if it raises w/ engine RPM. Listen to it w/ a stethescope might help. Could be gear wine. Could be wear in a bearing or bushing on the idler shaft...? Might check another Rx8 and compare. Maybe something as simple as they didnt' properly install noise insulation. WHo knows! (see my comments below about oil)

---

Hopefully this won't be too confusing... there is no 'direct link' per se - look at the photos... there is a primary and idler shaft w/ gears - 1 pair of gear at a time is engaged by a synchro ring which 'couples' the 2 shafts. THe ratio is determined by one gear being smaller and the other larger or in the case of 5th 2 gears of the same size. You can sorta make ou the synchros that engage and disengage. The gears themselves are always fully meshed at all times...

---

I'm not much of an oil bigot as far as religious changes or esoteric synthetics go. However...

In a 'new' gear/diffy box - I do like the idea of a very early oil change to get rid of the 'silty' metal powder buildup that always occurs early on and is normal.

I also like synthetics in this one case.

Finally for transmissions (unless we are talking about one of the Viper or Corvette synchromesh units or a unit calling for ATF or something proprietary) I prefer GL-4 only lubes. GL-5s are 'OK' but by definition their EP additives do not always make for good smooth shifting and can sometimes attack yellow metals of synchros over a very long period of time.

For a rear end a GL5 or GL4/5 combo is OK. But NEVER NEVER NEVER put a pure GL4 in teh rear - it will ruin a hypoid gear in short order!

To summarize...
MT: GL4 or GL5 or Gl4/5'combo' (4 is preferred)
Diffy: GL5 or GL4/5 combo - note any need for LSD additives. Never a GL4 only.


Tons of good lubes for rear ends around and most come w/ the LSD additive already in 'em. In the old days the separate GM positrac additive was great but anymore the built in additives are just fine in my experience.

Finding a good MT lube is a tough chore however!

Anyway even if you have to change the box lubes at your own expense - I think that's a good idea very early on and then after that simply follow the standard service interval...

When you change - be sure and always open the fill plug FIRST. Be sure and thoroughly clean the magnet of any gray 'power' metal - dont' fret some is normal here.

My best guess would be to change it at around 3K or 5K miles... Also make sure you thoroughly warm up the boxes by driving the car...

paradigm

That sounds like the typical throwout bearing noise that seems to be common with our cars. My car was doing this, but I'm almost positive it had nothing to do with this failure.



I'm still at a loss to explain why this piece failed. I'm used to hearing about wheel hop destroying rear ends, power plant frames, and U-joints......but why did this retainer fail instead?

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

Simple...these trannies just aren't that strong.....

BeattyRX-8

Im not sure what it is, but i am hearing a noise coming from my tranny. Atleast it sounds like it is coming from there. Anyway it almost sounds like a chain is being driven, Omicron said a coffee grinding noise maybe. Im not too thrilled to be hearing that noise because i have never heard it before form any other car. Could this be the same problem? Should i get it checked or just not worry about it?

crf3629

There are numerous reports of noise from the tranny while in neutral with the clutch out. This noise is typically attributed to the throw out bearing. My recollection from working on cars in the late 50's with my dad (he was a mechanic) was that the throw out bearing only had a load on it when the clutch was depressed. Can someone please explain why we should be getting this noise when the clutch is released.

I did a quick experiment the other day by putting the tranny in neutral and slowly releasing the clutch. The noise started at approximately the point where I would normally feel the clutch engaging. The load on the throw out bearing should be greatest when the clutch pedal is fully depressed, yet I don't hear the noise there. This leads me to believe the noise I hear is in the tranny.

9-K Rever

I have been getting this "ICE IN A BLENDER" Sound when I put it in reverse...Mazda said they would have to dismantal the trany to find the problme. They admited they have never cracked opean a RX8 tranny before at my dealer. So, I have been putting off letting them do the work.

The car drives fine in every other gear so I am not too pressed right now. I just don't want my car out of commision for weeks on end.

But, I will put it int so they can check it out.

9-K Rever

RX8by

I have the noise when the car is in neutral and the clutch out. It's not the throw out bearing. In the 60's we would get a noise when the clutch was depressed sign the bearing was worn and failing. I believe it is a gear noise on the engine grear shaft or a loose bearing vibrating probably normal.

thew

My new 8 does this.. and my old 7 did it as well.. you are right it is throw out barring nosie.. Its normal.. just annoying..

Try to stop driving around in Neutral. :P

crf3629

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time understanding how this noise can be caused by the throw out bearing. The throw out bearing does not know the difference between the transmission being in neutral and any other gear. Therefore, if the noise were from the throw our bearing it should occur anytime the clutch pedal is out, no matter what gear the transmission is in.

Has anyone actually eliminated this noise by replacing a throw out bearing, without doing anything to the transmission?

thew

nope when your foot is on the clutch the throw out barring is engaged against the pressure plate. While it is pushed up against the Pressure Plate the barring spins with the flywheel. This is the sound you hear. When your foot is off the clutch the TB should not really be touching the PP at all. Also the 8 Tranmissin is kinda nosiy so you hear some sounds that are comming from the trannie.

9-K Rever

I don't know why..but the throw out bearing noise doesn't bother me...Yeah, I hear it..but it doesn't drive me nutz like most owners. It doesnt' even bother me. But, what does is the "Ice in Blender" noise in reverse....when you start getting that..thats when you know something is wrong.

thew

yes.. its fine.. nothing to worry about .. As I said.. my old 7 and now my new 8 do it.. its normal. Just think of it as purring

9-K Rever

Purring..thats a good one!