tore down another 12A
11-05-2009, 07:20 AM
#28
RX-Heaven
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
ok, i went out and took a few pics ths morning. i've been busy working and rebuilding the diff on my 80 LS and i got lazy with taking these pics. here are some of the pics of the parts that were hot tanked and cleaned:
bad housing and rotor:
bad housing and rotor:
11-05-2009, 07:22 AM
#29
11-05-2009, 12:20 PM
#33
RX-Heaven
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
the engine came out of this car: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=822222
11-05-2009, 07:49 PM
#35
Super Moderator
Rear Stationary Gear Bearing (0820-10-502B) looks worn, but certainly not as bad as the RENESIS Rear Bearings at a third of the mileage that this 12A has done..
Rotor Bearings (1011-11-111) again slightly worn, but are in good condition from what I can see from the pics..
Would be great if you could show a few of the Eccentric Shaft Journals also, considering the bearings I would guess the e-shaft is in great condition and very reusable.
Thanks mate!
Rotor Bearings (1011-11-111) again slightly worn, but are in good condition from what I can see from the pics..
Would be great if you could show a few of the Eccentric Shaft Journals also, considering the bearings I would guess the e-shaft is in great condition and very reusable.
Thanks mate!
11-05-2009, 08:33 PM
#36
Yeah this 12A looks really good to some Renesis's ive seen around here that have been torn done. The failure of the Renesis was it didnt have a??? ugh i just blanked... a 3rd oil injector??? whats it called? damn. I believe it was because the 04-08 Renesis's didnt have a 3rd oil injector somewhere that all the RX's before had, they took it out of the Renesis for some reason, Ash am i correct? heh
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
11-05-2009, 10:36 PM
#38
RX-Heaven
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
ok, here are some pics of the eccentric shaft and the front iron and stationary gear. none of these parts were hot tanked as of yet. the e-shaft was not hot tanked because i didnt want to take any chances of it rusting (will coat with light amount of oil after hot tanking). this is a very nice e-shaft and it, like the front iron, were only wiped down.
11-06-2009, 12:30 AM
#39
Super Moderator
Wow, that e-shaft is in perfect shape for the amount of miles, well that is how they should be, going back in the dark ages I think I sold one e-shaft off and on over 15 years (and I would wholesale about $6000 rotary parts a month with parts one sixth of the price they are now), beautifully machined, good pics if the OIL Jets that spray the rotors/gears with Oil, also the oil weeper (supplier) hole for the rotor bearings, remember the RENESIS uses the exact same jets and holes as they did 35 years ago.
Thanks
Thanks
11-06-2009, 12:35 AM
#40
Yeah this 12A looks really good to some Renesis's ive seen around here that have been torn done. The failure of the Renesis was it didnt have a??? ugh i just blanked... a 3rd oil injector??? whats it called? damn. I believe it was because the 04-08 Renesis's didnt have a 3rd oil injector somewhere that all the RX's before had, they took it out of the Renesis for some reason, Ash am i correct? heh
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
the 3rd oil injector people talking about is for the new E-MOP. "dripping" oil at the center of the apex.
the S1 has 2 injectors, one on each side, feeding the side seals.
the result was the center not getting any love ... I mean lube, no lube = unusual/uneven wear.
11-06-2009, 01:07 AM
#42
Super Moderator
Yeah this 12A looks really good to some Renesis's ive seen around here that have been torn done. The failure of the Renesis was it didnt have a??? ugh i just blanked... a 3rd oil injector??? whats it called? damn. I believe it was because the 04-08 Renesis's didnt have a 3rd oil injector somewhere that all the RX's before had, they took it out of the Renesis for some reason, Ash am i correct? heh
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
At anyrate the engine looks good for having that many miles on it
Yep...
Look, don't get me wrong the RENESIS 1 with the 2 outer angled Oil Weepers to Lube the Corner Seals and Apex Seal ends is a great and New Idea, Mazda thought in their wisdom that the Oil would gradually make it's way into the middle of the Apex Seal...WRONG...there was never enough oil and it did not make it to the middle even with the higher MOP outputs in recent ECU Flashes.
Every other Rotary from 1985 (when Mazda invented the Direct Oil Weepers) there was always a Middle Oil Weeper Direct in each middle Rotor Housing and another two for each Center Intake Inlet Port, so a total of 4 for the FC RX-7.
The FD RX-7 Only had the two Middle Direct Injector Weeper Nozzles (exact same Part as the FC), NO intake oil Nozzles, so really the FD was the most 'inferior' of the lot. ( It's MOP did supply a lot of oil to the middle nozzle though)
With the S2 RX-8 Mazda went back to the Middle Direct Weeper and kept the two outer Angled Nozzles used in the S1 along with a new high pressure Oil Pump circuit feeding the two EMOP's into 6 Nozzle Weepers, we see Mazda's best attempt at lubricating the Apex and Corner Seals ever.... my only concern is we are seeing less actual oil use in S2's, is Mazda maybe being TOO miserly with the Oil?, part of the reason why I pre-mix even with my S2. For insurance!
All other rotaries before 1985 had a MOP with Twin OIL Tubes which would dribble oil directly into the intake just below the 4 barrel carburettor base plate.
So, it has been a long and Very painful and Costly exercise for Mazda, IMO I think they have finally put to an end pre-mature Apex Seal wear, but we are seeing too many RENESIS Side Seal failures, IMO because the Side Seal is too loose , moving up and down wearing through the side seal spring making it a two piece rather than a one piece...with catastrophic results...
I have heard Mazda have strengthened all side seal springs in 2010 RX-8's.
Last edited by ASH8; 11-06-2009 at 01:18 AM.
11-06-2009, 02:21 PM
#45
One thing to keep in mind: Mazda has steadily improved the plating of the rotor housings over the years. The additional treatments Mazda has added has allowed the housings to retain their oil film better, requiring less oil through the OMP. That's one of the reasons why they felt they could rely on one OMP injector per housing/rotor in the FD.
The fuel injected 13B's until 92 had oil injectors in the LIM.
The fuel injected 13B's until 92 had oil injectors in the LIM.
11-06-2009, 03:13 PM
#46
One thing to keep in mind: Mazda has steadily improved the plating of the rotor housings over the years. The additional treatments Mazda has added has allowed the housings to retain their oil film better, requiring less oil through the OMP. That's one of the reasons why they felt they could rely on one OMP injector per housing/rotor in the FD.
The fuel injected 13B's until 92 had oil injectors in the LIM.
The fuel injected 13B's until 92 had oil injectors in the LIM.
11-06-2009, 04:11 PM
#47
Paul.
11-09-2009, 12:17 PM
#48
I've actually heard of an original with 180k miles. There are so many reasons for spotty reliability and engine life on those. Heat is one major factors and a less than optimum cooling sytem IMO. A really well treated one with the first cat removed and pre-mix could live a decent life (Including turbos) although most probably expired by 100k.
Paul.
Paul.
100K is pretty impressive for FD, Damn, Im itching for one now ... grrr Paul look what u did to me !
11-11-2009, 08:42 AM
#50
RX-Heaven
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
here are some pics of my rotary powered cars and pics of the engines. good for comparison purposes and for those that aren't familiar with other rotaries.
my 1980 LS 12A:
my 1985 GS (with 13B):
85 GSL (12A) sold the car last year:
my 1988 10th Anniversary:
my 05 RX-8:
my 1980 LS 12A:
my 1985 GS (with 13B):
85 GSL (12A) sold the car last year:
my 1988 10th Anniversary:
my 05 RX-8: