RenesisPower

But where does it say in the manual to not use synthetic ?

Could it be in the RX-7 manual(not RX-8) or are you just making this up?

Gyro

Do you guys want were Mazda states..."only non synthetic oil"....specific to the RX8?......Because I have it.

syntrix

Show it because at purchase, it was not stated in the owners manual.

Actually your post of anything won't matter legally, because they ONLY spec WEIGHT and an SL api of oil in the manual and ALL docs I received with purchase.

I ran dino at my oil changes, and will continue to. I just want Mazda North American Operations to officially notify me that I can NEVER run Synth oil in my RX8

Until then, the general public has the option of synthetic at independent oil change places (I personally do my own changes). How can they deny a warranty for using a proper weight SL api oil that's independently done?

Gyro

OK......give me a minute to scan and post

bureau13

RX7FD3,

This "rotary 101" **** is killing me. With all the talk about how you've been building these things for years, blah blah blah, and then to trot out that completely nonsensical statement about the automatic and fuel injection....you must have gained all that "valuable experience" working for a Mazda dealer! :D

I can't think of any other way to reconcile those two things.

jds

RenesisPower

I think syntrix is right on.

Since Mazda does not state in the manual to specifically not use synthetic, an owner can and the warranty should cover it if a problem occurs becuase of the use synthetic.

I think we all see the advantages of synthetic oils but are looking for clarification from Mazda.

islandsoon

Gyro...

Where does it say that? I can't find it in my manual. Please post the page.
Thanks,
Tom

syntrix

Thanks Ren

I have years of dealing with Manu's and independent dealers on issues like these.

Even if someone posts something on the forum from MNAO, then it is the responsibility of MNAO to send notification to each and every owner of an RX8.

Like I said, I'm running dino, and will continue to run it for a long time.

BUT, until I see something in writing from MNAO, other people could be at risk.

They do offer synth at jiffy lube, don't they? Would suck if people went independent for their oil changes (it's their right to do so), and were denied warranty because they chose the best oil change money could buy. As long as the synth specs were the same in the owners manual!

bureau13

OK, let's be fair here. It is only an ongoing debate because there are still a few idiots like me who hate the disinformation more than painful mess that ensues every time the thing breaks out again. Most of the RX-7 folks who have switched to synthetic just chuckle and say whatever and ignore the thread. I know of plenty of guys driving FDs who have used synthetic for years with no ill effects. Conversely, in nearly every single case I know of where someone spouts off about how its "killing motors" it never actually happened to them. Either a friend of a friend's motor died and it was due to synthetic, or their motor died and they're blaming synthetic because its an easy target (we all know how death-resistant the FD motors are :-(

jds

syntrix

I still have this posted somewhere from a night or two ago.

Check page 8-9 of the owners manual, and then read through the whole section.

NO mention of synthetic oils that meet the SL spec.

My motivation is looking for verification AND notification from Mazda

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I was getting my oil changed at the dealership and arguing the same points on this thread to the maintenance techs. One of them went in the bay and brought out what looked like a copy of the tech highlights manual in a binder and pointed out a sentence that stated something like "Mazda does not recomend the use of sythetic oil in the rx-8." That was it. No why, no "do not use or or your valves will stick", or even anything mentioned about voided warranty issues if sythetic oil is used. As argued here, if it was that important, why wasn't it mentioned in the owners manual? An oversight?

I've read the explanation, I've also read the counterpoints to that explanation. What I want to see is some evidence or stories of rotary engines in recent history (past 10 years with the newer synthetic oils-API SL rating) where their failure or problems can be directly related to synthetic oil use. And I mean directly related: As in "we pulled the engine apart to find ash or goo that led to engine failure that could only be related to synthetic oil use, here is the pictures and evidence".

syntrix

bureau13:

I think you want the same info as me. No speculation, no prior history, no guessing, no just saying "mazda says so".

Bring on the facts and the documentation!

I've provided source references in the owners manual, AND went over all documentation presented to me at the time of purchasing.

Next thing you know, we'll all get something in the mail from mazda saying "don't use synthetics".

But what about those that have before notification?

RX7FD3

I worked at Bob Moore MAZDa, and believe me, they dont know **** about rotaries! The techs went to a training class of a couple of weeks...like that is gonna help you learn everything about rotaries.

You are pretty new to this, so you shouldnt even comment! any RX-7 guy will tell you that MAZDA dealers is the last place to take an RX-7. I can assure you this from plenty of personal experience were mazda replaces engines for things that can be fixed easily.

Malloy MAZDA in VA which is well known for selling reman engines actually told me from Jim Dotty's own words " We dont know what is wrong with your car, it starts but it doesnt want to go above 35MPH"

The only reason that was taken there was because of the warranty. I laughed so hard when i turned the key 3 times and pumped on the gas to reset the computer and to get it out of limp mode...the car worked like a champed and they didnt know what to say! I just told the manager, I will never bring my car there ever again!
I can go on all night about stores like this...Any RX-7 owner will tell you the same thing, specially 3d gen RX-7s go on thier forums and stories are all over the place, i see them here..mazda changing engines for simple things

Wether you wanna believe me is up to you and for any newbi that thinks that knows everything, personally, im just trying to help those few who will be smart to take advise and for those like you who are stubborn, i personally dont care!

Its too early for you guys to see what problems you will have, and when you guys have blown engines, people like you end up blaming the RX-8 and not the stupidity of not listening to those who know by experience.

RX7FD3

Those who listen will enjoy their cars, those who dont will just see what happens later.

Gyro

OK......I'm just posting what Mazda sent me. I have no opinion on the matter. Yes I realize its not in the Manual. Here you go..

This was in a pamphlet called "Drivers Guide".

syntrix

But the point is, the dealer can rant and say everything they want.

You have the right to get your car serviced at other places than the dealer.

The information presented to us all does not state that synthetic api SL oil in 5w-20 is NOT to be used.

If Mazda did not want synth to be used, where is my documentation saying that I can not use a particular synthetic that meets the specs in the owners manual?

If they said, "here's the pics and evidence", surely a judge would look at the only presented evidence to the consumer and rule in favor of them (without other issues or problems).

Now here's a new point:

what if you went into the dealer for service and they educated you on using only dino. Then they have your vin, and you have officially been notified


this thread is fun

syntrix

Hmm, where did you get this driver's guide?

I can't find it in anything the dealer gave me!

RX7FD3

Busted arent ya!

Here is a copy of a letter sent to a forum member directly from mazda in case you missed to read the beggining of this thread. You can email them if you like and you will get the same answer

__________________________________________________
_
Hello Glen,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.

In regards to your inquiry, Mazda does not suggest synthetic oil use for the RX-8. The reason for this is that the Rotary engines must burn oil in the combustion chambers. Because synthetic oil burns at a high temperature it may not fully burn in the combustion chambers causing seals to stick.
__________________________________________________
_

DrMike

Okay guys lets stop for just one second on the oil issue.

Number 1
The only specification is the SL desiganation via API service ratings Or ILSAC rated oils. This includes synthic oils and synthetic blends. NO WHERE in my owners manual (under maintainence 8-9) Does it even mention synthics.

Number 2
Aren't there some motorcrossers out there? I have been mixing synthetic oil in my 2 stroke for years. As do most motorcrossers especially pros. Synthetic don' t only burn but burn cleaner than regular dyno oils in that they leave LESS residue do to lack of impuritys. Ever had to clean a power valve on a 2-stroke. Well i have and in just 20 to 30 hours of riding its so gummed up with residue you could practically rebuff it clean almost on any ride no matter how lean your running your jets.

Synthetic burn like a champ, just as good if not better than organics. If you don't want to use them, then don't its not gonna hurt a thing. However there is no scientific or real world experience with oil burning engines than even remotely rules out synthetics. Are synthetics better? Probably --but the difference may not be that great. Certainly not any worse than organics.

Course that's just my opinion. I am not a profesional mechanic, but i have done my share of topends and auto overhauls growing up. For what its worth, guys you can go either way without any worry.

syntrix

NOT BUSTED!

How did Mazda get a hold of me?

How can we verify where the email came from?

Once again, I'm only going to run dino in my car. Until Mazda sends me direct info on this, I'm not going to believe it!

Who/where in Mazda did that come from and are they going to do a circular campain to notify all owners?

THAT"S MY POINT!

RenesisPower

Gyro,

The text looks familiar but I never got anything like this from Mazda.

If this is from Mazda then you have the "missing document". Please tell us where you got this from. Thanks.

Gyro

There is a section all about the "cold start" issue. This is a new mini guide aimed at informing the new owner that the Renesis is a unique engine that sometimes needs special consideration.

It hits on the Cold start thing

the fact that it has no spare tire

it shows a small graphic of how a rotary works. I just got it in the mail along with a Mazdaspeed brochure. My guess is that it is in response to the influx of warrany work stemming from flooding issues. It will be included in the new cars.

Gyro

this little brochure has a part number

9999-92-RX8D2-04

RenesisPower

Gyro,

Now we are getting somewhere. This is a good thing if Mazda is sending it to all existing owners and including it in all new cars. This will remove all ficticious info that is around.

One thing we need to remember is the Renesis is different from the RX-7 engine, they are both rotary engines but the Renesis is vastly redesigned and much improved. So, I typically ignore data when someone claims it works in the RX-7, no offense intended.

Gyro, how many pages is this and can you post the whole thing?
Thanks again!

syntrix

I do not have this document in all the docs that I received.

The only thing close to it is the owners manual supplement that mentions lemon laws in a nice way and does not mention lemon laws specifically.

So who else has that document?

Was it a dealer oversight? Was it really included?

Looks like a doc, but not an owners manual supplement. And I surely never received it at purchase or later [I just went out and checked, and IF i had it, then I would surely back this up!!!!!!]