The Spark Plug Debacle
 

The Spark Plug Debacle

Preface: I drive a 2004 AT. The car has roughly 23k and had one previous owner. This was the first coil/plug change for this car.

Tuesday

2 pm: We begin work and the coils go in without a hitch. He next order of business is the spark plugs.

4pm: We jack the car up and remove the wheel. The workspace is tight but manageable. The front rotor plugs work fine so we move on to the rear rotor plugs. The trailing plug is stuck like a rock. No movement what so ever. We decide to warm the car up and try again, but during our drive we can hear the car misfiring (sounds like when you put a playing card on your bike spokes as a kid). We cut our ride short and get the car back in the garage.

6 pm: We decide to work on the leading plug and there are no problems with it. The trailing plug is still impossible to move, even with a breaker bar.

9 pm: We pack up for the day and decide to resume work tomorrow. The common consensus is that the plugs threads are deformed or crossed.

Later that night I recall that mazda did a de-choke procedure on my car in the summer. On the invoice, it said that they removed my plugs in the process. My thought was that while installing the plugs, someone was in a hurry and got a hold of a high torque, air compressed gun and went to town, ripping the plug and housing threads in the process.

Wednesday

I decide to call mazda and check if the plugs are part of the warranty extension (even though I knew the answer). They said no to I told them that I had a de-choke done and asked if the plugs had been removed then. Mazda said “probably not”. I told them to check the records. They checked confirming my suspicion that mazda isn’t taking me seriously. I ask if their poor workmanship will be covered under warranty and they said that I would have to bring it in too look.

My problem is this.

If I get it towed to mazda, it’s there 100%. I can’t afford their labor and any other problems (such as the possibility of a stripped motor housing because of horrible plug installation.) What are my chances of having this covered under warranty? Should I stick it out in my garage and use a different technique or should I let the “professionals” work with it?

(sorry if this seems rushed, I had a nice version typed up but then my browser decided to log me out of the forum, so I lost everything.)

The plugs should never be so tight that you need a breaker bar to remove.
If you go any further, happen to remove it, and realize that they are cross-threaded, they might blame you and say it occurred when you were taking it out.
I would let the dealer investigate THEIR mistake and fix it.

You have documentation stating that they removed the plugs.
As long as they were the last to remove them, you should be fine.
But first work with the dealer, then if needed, go above them.

that seems the most logical way. should i reinstall the 3 old plugs?

^I say yes on the re-install.

def let them take a look at it if y9ou have documentation of them taking out the plugs they should b covered under labor warranty...I don't see y u would need to put the old ones back in all u have to say if they ask is you were changing the plugs and coud not get that one out

^Parts and labor warranty are only good for 12mo/12000 miles on new parts being installed.

yeah, they know i was changing them and that i had the problem.

theres a labor warranty?

It falls under the parts warranty...all factory parts are given a 12mo/12000 miles warranty. That's how I have yet to pay to for plugs and coils since I bought my car...they don't last 12k miles, haha.

yeah but my plugs were 32k old. you should see the tips, charcoal black. my coils were all white burnt too.

I wasn't sure about the labor warranty but then again i never go to the dealer to have anything done unless in warranty!

White spots on coils don't mean anything...you have to check the ohms with a fluke meter to see if they are really bad. New coils usually have about 3 ohms resistance, anything over that they start causing minor misfires. As for the plugs, black normally indicates good plug life...mine are sometimes white as hell, running to lean I guess. But keep in mind from now on, you should probably change out plugs and coils every 15-20k miles.

the white spots is from what happens when your rotary gets all excited at 9000 rpms -- then tries to hide its "marks" under a very inconspicuous place.

hehee

Only way to know is to check resistance.

yeah as said above check resistance for coils and plugs should b a brownish black color if they are covered in black carbon you are running rich plugs should b brownish powder coated

ohhh ok. well when i installed them i felt the difference right away, so they must have been on their way out.

yeah if you have had them awhile they will slowly wear out and u will not notice till they change how coils work is after they spark they get "charged" via a magnetic field when it's time for that particular spark plug to light the voltage/current going to the coil for the magneticfield get turned off and when power drops it's called flyback voltage and produces a crazy amount of power up to 120,000 volts and that just the gap in a spark plug then the fuel lights....everytime they are charged and discharged they wear out slowly so i'm sure u would have felt a difference

it was an incredible difference. at first, i was thinking my cat might have been clogged but i wanted to try the coils/plugs first. i think i might ditch the cat anyway just to be on the safe side.

yeah they must have been bad if you though ur cat was goin i'm on my originals with 40k miles and it does not feel too bad but i'm sure that changing them soon i will feel a great differece

alright, thanks for the advise guys. i think im calling AAA tomorrow for the tow.

*crosses fingers*

Good LUck

Why does the car need to be towed?
I concur with the other recommendations not to try too hard. I stripped about half the threads out of that plug hole, and now have a new plug that's not installed correctly (the previous plug was cross threaded all the way in. Had to have been installed with an impact wrench.) Going to try to helicoil this weekend.
Of course if yours is in bad shape as mine was you'd need about an 8' breaker bar. I broke a 1/2" drive plug socket before getting a set of deep impact sockets and whacking on the thing for at least a full minute with a good impact wrench.

He already tried using a breaker bar...no worky.

No anti-seize and the plug is now welded in......

Been there, T-shirt aquired.

D

I say install the three new plugs and tell them the whole story IE the truth .

Always works out better when you do that ;)

huh I don't think there is anti seize on my plugs i pulled them about a month ago and th threads were dry! oh no hope they don't get stuck in there!

hooooo, i got to mines right in time. took me about 30mins to do all 4 plugs, including the time to jack the car up, and clean up afterwards. well when i pulled all the plugs out, the threads had a light coat of what looked like surface rust, any longer in the motor and i think they all would've seized. my trailing pair even had this weird light blue stain on the hex nut where it meets the ceramic outer part.

^well it's about time to change mine soon so i know to buy some antiseize for the threads this time....and make sure it's not accidentially lock tite ahaha .....now tha would suck

Lol, I learned about anti-seize when I had #1 plug seize on my Miata at around 100,000 miles. Never did get that sucker out. I sold the car at 150,000. It still ran ok. :lol:

yeah, i told them straight up. i told them that i was doing my own plugs and that the back rotor's trailing plug wasnt budging. i showed them that the last person to touch the plugs was mazda. i hear back later today...

Damn that sucks im about to do a full spark plug, spark plug wire, and coil change on my car. what kind of coils did you use? did you use the mazdasolution coils?? i heard allot of good stuff about em

if the plug is in fact seized and strips out the hole does anyone know if its possible to put a heli-coil in the plug hole to fix it?... done that on a few boat motors and it worked out fine, but not sure if something like that is possible on our rotor housings.

i just used the mazda OEM coils. BHR racing has an ignition upgrade that uses yukon coils. if you can foot the price, i hear it's well worth the cost.

so i just got a call from mazda. they told me that they were able to remove the plug and that there was no damage to anything else. they claimed that i "must not have been using the right tools."

they told me that they would split the labor costs with me making it $75 (i dont see how 110 divides in to 75, but hey im no mathematician.) im going to pay it because i need my car back for work tonight so oh well.

ps: i truly believe that im the only person in the history of the world who has payed 75 dollars to have one spark plug removed.

damn thats tuff man. i think so too lol

Eh, $75 is expensive for that, but look at it this way, at least the plug didn't strip threads out of the engine.
I wouldn't be surprised if they needed an impact wrench to get the plug out. Just think of how big of a bolt a spark plug resembles. A quick look-up for a grade-5 bolt of that size shows 88 ft-lbs torque rating. I'm sure removal torque could be several times higher. A breaker bar isn't going to do that for you.

LUCKY if it just strips the threads - mine broke off, leaving the plug threads in the housing!

Drilled out while blasting air INTO the other plug hole, to keep filings out of the chamber....

S

^oh that sounds like tons of fun stealth!

Where do they come up with this stuff?

Yeah, bend over service-dude. I got the right tool right here. :ky:

lolol. well anyway heres an update.

im am seriously going to kill someone.

I get a call around 10:30 saying that my car is ready. I arrange a ride and head over at about noon. I get my car and the service dickhead tells me that everything is running great. I thank him and I get my car. I start it up and it has the typical weak start but I write it off. I pull it out of the parking lot and at ever stop, I feel this deep shake/rattle from my engine. I mean, it seriously viberates the WHOLE car. This only happens when im at idle. IF it idles at around 1k its fine but every few second it drops to about 750 and I get the shake.

I finally get to my destination ( I had a few errands to run) and I park the car (this is where it gets fun). The second I throw I in to park, the car stall out. 0 RPM, CEL light the works.

…I drive an AT. I’ve never stalled ONCE. Confused, I kill the power and take care of what I needed to do. I get back in the car and it takes a good 5 seconds to turn over. The second it turns over, I feel the rattle instantly.

Ready to rip someones head off, I start driving right back to the stealership. Im trying not to stall out at red lights and what not, when I finally get to the dealership. I pull in to the parking lot and I stall out at about 10 mph. Im just gliding there, with all the salesmen looking at me. After restarting the car (another 5 second crank) I get it to the parking spot and kill it.

I walk in to the “service” center and dickhead is just staring at me. I walk up to the counter with my invoice and my key already off the keychain and put them both on the counter. I retell my story and he looks at me and delivers this gem. “You realize that changing your spark plugs isn’t going to make your car run better.”

:banghead:

There were a million things I could have said at that point. I was about to blow up. What came out was “I know sir, but it’s kind of like oil, you’ve got to change it regardless.” He asks me if I would like to leave the car again, so I said “Well I guess I don’t have a choice” and I walked out. I was seriously ready to kill everyone.

Anyway, I now await the dreaded phone call. What im asking you guys is what causes my problem? I never stalled ONCE on old coils and plugs. I bring it in to the dealer ship to get ONE plug change, and mar car stalls twice in 20 mins. Im not to car savvy, but something is not right.

Opinions are very very welcome.

prolly just the wire not put on tight

i was just over at the dealership about an hour ago and my car was sitting in the garage lot. they said that they were "still trying to figure out what was wrong with it." they told me that i would know by monday.

awesome.

+1 you can't expect a dealership mechanic to know how to push the terminals on :lol:
This is why i do all my own servicing now .

true, i feel you.

im so fed up with this car though. this is the fifth time i've had it in the shop in he year i've owned it. im starting to think that it's time to move on to something more low maintenence. preferably something with a clutch :lol2:

Wow..........just wow......care to tell us which stealership?
I drove down to Palm Beach to buy mine in 05.
Never had it serviced there though.
Have to wonder if it's taken them three-four days to figure out that a plug wire isn't on good???? I hope that's all it is.

if it was bought it 05, then it was probably palm beach mazda. they closed down a few months ago and royal palm mazda opened up. its on southern blvd. just off of 441 (sr7). everyone there is ignorant and impossible to talk to. then again, the guys at palm beach mazda werent too helpful either.

if you want a knowledgeable rotary resource in Palm Beach, Pettit Racing is located in palm beach gardens just off of beeline highway. i went down there just for the hell of it and everyone was super nice. they gave me and my buddy a tour of their garages and what not. FD's and FC's galore.

sounds exactly what happened to my car when my coils went out. you did install new coils right? maybe they switched them on you trying to get more money. they tried to charge me like $600 for it but i changed them myself in their parking lot. they didn't like me very much after that.

Mine was bought at City Place Mazda on old dixie highway..............just about right downtown....West Palm.
Haven't had a single issue with the exception of the sun visor in the first month or so. But as I said....never had it serviced there, just up here and really only for that visor.
Good luck!

Meh I'll save you a set in hell muhahahaaa!

possibly. i did the coil install before and spark plug work. i ran the car for about 10 mins. after the install and it ran great. it all went downhill when the plug change happened. after i got the car back from the stealership is when it took a turn for the worst, so i think they messed up somewhere in the process of finishing my plugs for me.

I am going to have to second the thought that one of the spark plug wires isn't completely attached. You have a misfire contributing to your rough idle. That's my guess.

lol if that is the case then its the fault of the stealership 100% because they were the last ones to touch that (as mentioned earlier).