Efini 8

Sorry I did not post this earlier, but I hope you all can use this to properly break-in your new rotary engine. I got this information from a reputable tuner and owner of XS-Engineering.

Break-in for Rotary
- period of 1000 miles
- better if not broken in on dyno (stresses engine)
- keep in lower rpms under 4500 rpm


Oil Issues
- synthetic and mineral oil BOTH fine, as shown through many tests and tuning trials
- synthetic is reconmended
- NON-detergent oil is a MUST
- change at least every 2000 miles
- oil brand does not really matter

Big thanks to Eric at XS-Engineering for giving my friend and I a tour of the facility and giving his thoughts on rotary tuning and care.

Hercules

Too bad Mazda gives you different ideas on how to break it in, including different RPMs.

And I'll stick with dino oil for the changes... since it drinks oil as part of consumption I'd rather it burn the dino oil instead of sythetic which doesn't burn properly.

Doctorr

That's not real answers, that's real opinions.
Educated guesses at best.
And WHERE are you going to get "synthetic NON-DETERGENT" oil?
Ain't no such animal - you may find a can of non-detergent 30w dino oil in some abandoned gas station from the '60s, but it would only be rated for API service level SA or SB, and would definately damage a modern engine.
.
.
.
Jeez, where do these 'experts' come from?
.
.
doc

tribal azn2

uh every 2000 miles?

Elara

That's the same number we've been hearing for the past 6 months. It uses more oil than most. But wait and see what Mazda says on the oil changes. Maybe it'll be longer. Though I plan on getting it changed every 2k, personally.

daedelgt

No need to change it that much on the 13BREN I would think. The oil moves through less components and doesn't get as hot as it did in the 13BREW. I also heard the oil injectors were bigger??? which would also lead me to believe that contaminants won't be as big a deal.

As a guide, my FD leaks a small amount of oil from both turbos, and the oil pan gasket and it has only eaten 1qt in about 2300 miles. I know I went a bit over the 2k rule, but most of that was highway driving.

TreknMazda

According the the engine video on the RX-8 Technical CD, the Renesis is designed for "5W-20 non-synthetic oil".

RobDickinson

"Eric at XS-Engineering " knows jack.

Break in RPM limit for hi-poweer is 7k , JSG has the owners manual.

Mazda say different about the oil too.

Efini 8

haha yea, Eric told me I would get these responses from people on the internet that think they know everything about cars. I think I will take the word of a reknown import tuner then a bunch of people on the internet.

just wondering, who has REAL experience with rotary engines by taking them apart to see what oil is better? Have you tested synthetic and dino oil and compare them? There really isnt much of a difference when you see rotaries run on synthetic and rotaries on dino oil.

Doctorr

My point is that you should not take advice from a guy who on one hand says "Synthetic is recomended" then goes on to say "non-detergent only". It just blows his credibility out the window.
.
Modern high performance oils suspend deposits with detergents to get them to the filter instead of in a gooey layer in your valve covers. Synthetics are very high performance, and have LOTS of these type of additives.
.
You can't have it both ways, Ken - "good-old-boy V8 fans" often specify 'non-detergent straight 30 weight' because thats what these motors were designed around, and all that was available in 1955, but oil has moved on since then - get with the program!
.
.
.
doc

khoney

Gee, I wonder how many Renesis engines 'Eric' has run on a test stand for 100,000 miles to determine the best oil weight/breakin/change interval. Hmm... let's see... my guess would be .... ZERO!!!!

I think Mazda, the DEVELOPERS OF THE ENGINE IN QUESTION, would know a thing or two about how to break it in, what kind of oil to use, and proper change intervals.

HalleysComet

I called and asked my father on this one. He says nothing but non synthetic oil for the RX-8. His explanation was that the rotor houses that are designed to hold oil are pourous surfaces and synthetic oil won't stay in the surface like non synthetic.

Hope this helps

BTW -He owns a 3rd generation yellow RX-7 and says he uses 5W-50 non synthetic oil

commentator

I have it, if changing the oil every 2000 miles is good then 1000 must be better, no wait a minute make that 500 miles, no 250, I think the best thing to do here is change your oil daily. After all, Mazda must have wanted to make this car the biggest pain in the a---- to maintain so they could sell at least two or three hundred of them. And don't forget....use only 100% canola oil it has less animal fat and keeps that nasty plaque off the side of the housings.

Sorry I am being a bit sarcastic here but I keep remembering the test that a famous consumer magazine did on oil changes. To the best of my recollection, they took New York taxis and ran them 100,000 miles. One group they changed the oil every 3000 miles. Another group they changed every 7000 miles. At the end they tore the engines down and -------you guessed it there was no difference in wear. Now I know that New York taxis are babied and pampered cars but still I think most of us are just a bit easier on our autos than taxi drivers. If 3000 mile intervals makes you feel better then do it, if 1000 makes you feel better do it, does it really make any difference in the life of the engine. That is debatable.

Remember the best advice about taking care of any car is from the person who is backing up the warranty (owners manual) or when that is over, paying the repair bill. All the rest of this advice is worth what you pay for it, which is usually zero. Just my opinion though, to each his or her own. :D

KKMmaniac

What TreknMazda, khoney and Doctorr said!

seikx8

At this point in time, I would go with Mazda's recommendation of non-detergent oil. Their engineers would be more knowledgable than any one out there at this point. As far as synthentic go, I will have to wait a see more test & result before making any judgement on that. On the contrary, if Mazda say non-detergent only, then synthetic would be throw out the window IMO unless there is independent testing/study to back it up.

lefuton

do what you want, but honestly, you think someone who has been working on rotary engines is qualified to then just make a blanket statement about all rotary engines?

well i know a doctor who recommends everyone should eat nothing but fruit and nuts and he's been working on humans for a long time. oh yah, and he told me you would all think im an idiot for saying that

KKMmaniac

I've never seen anything legitimate about Mazda recommending a non-detergent oil. That would be the opposite of current and logical practice. (see the reasons noted by Doctorr)

Quick_lude

Change synthetic oil every 2,000km.. haha.. that's a good one. Especially since this engine will consume a little oil and you will replenish it by topping up..

norats

I tend to agree a little..2k is a bit over the top..unless your doing drag races on the weekend or something. Remember the older cars used to use 6000 miles as a change point...that's bad in the opposite direction, i agree. But, somewhere around 3k is reasonable.

Quick_lude

3K on dino oil maybe.. I'll admit, I have no idea how rotaries are on the oil.. if they "break it down" quickly or what.. but on a good group IV synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil most piston engines can go 6,000-10,000 miles.. Of course there exceptions and one should not try going for VERY extended drain intervals without oil analysis.

So what one should do is analyze the used oil at 3K miles first. See how much dirt there is in the oil, how the vicsosity is holding up, if the oil is shearing and how much of the acid neutralizing additive package is left. Then according to those results extend the drain periods accordingly. This is the best way to determine the "life of the oil" in the Renesis. Since the Renesis is a little different in design from the previous rotaries, you're starting from scratch with a blank info database.

JCC

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HalleysComet
[B]I called and asked my father on this one. He says nothing but non synthetic oil for the RX-8. His explanation was that the rotor houses that are designed to hold oil are pourous surfaces and synthetic oil won't stay in the surface like non synthetic.

This is very interesting. I know a long time ago Mazda didn't like synthetic oil after testing some different types for Le Mans racing. There were deposit problems that could stick rotors. Some tuners have found certain brands don't form deposits but conventional oil is always safe. The above info that conventional oil stays in the housing surface pores better would mean less wear too!

kidmarc

There are some discrepencies with what the original post stated about Eric's recommendations, and how they came across. It's likely that:

1. The break-in of 1,000 miles refers to the use of regular oil (non-synthetic) for break-in, or in this case non-detergent oil. Use of synthetic to break-in is argumentative by many (some say yes while others say no). If one does use synthetic, break-in miles/kilometers are longer/extended -- roughly 2-3 times longer/extended.

2. After break-in, the use of either type of oil is fine. However, Eric recommends synthetic. One would perform an oil change after break-in and use either type, synthetic or non-synthetic.

3. Oil changes at 2,000-mile intervals versus 3,000-mile intervals is a hedge against further contamination of oil. This is a judgement call by the owner. Eric's way costs more but is more preventive than waiting further. The other option is to use bypass oil filters to clean your oil as you drive -- extending your intervals if so desired.

Peace
marcus

MikeW

Ford, oops I mean Mazda specs 5w-20 for their engines only to raise their CAFE numbers.
Where the hell could you find 5w-50 non synthetic, 5w-40 started to phase out about 5 years ago, and is a pain in the but to find. Castrol makes 5w-50 synthetic, though.
Oil change intervals of 5000 miles on regular oil seam fine, and 10,000 miles on synthetic are the norm for cars already out. Honda specs 10,000 mile changes on regular for the new Accord.
3000 miles changes where around when carburetors where still in use.(How do you shut off a carbureted engine, kill the spark, and the engine still pumps air/fuel until the engine stops)
BMW says the 3.0 in the new 5 series can go up to a maximum of 19000 miles under certain conditions (highway)

Quick_lude

North American Castrol 5w50 is not a "true" synthetic but a Group III severly hydrocracked "semi-synthetic" Group IV PAO or Ester based synthetics are the only ones that should be labelled so. Brands like Mobil 1, Asmoil, Redline, Royal Purple.

I would never go above 5,000 miles on any dino oil without analysis unless it's all hwy in 20 deg Celscius temps. Here is a link to many oil analysis from real people in real driving conditions, not some owners manual.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...?ubb=forum;f=8

neit_jnf

I read somewhere that the renesis was designed with low oil consumption, 1qt per every 10,000 miles. So I think that unless we go 10k miles or more withot changing the oil it is not such a big concern checking the oil level and topping it off.