Rotary Titus

so is what RP said apply to ALL synthetics? or JUST RP? I can't find any dealers of RP near me

Gomez

nothing to do with deposits.....all to do about oil seal o'ring longevity.

Racers don't care about longevity, longevity to a racer is measured in hours. If you measure longevity in years, use a mineral oil.

Gomez.

Gomez

Here's why.....Page 1....

Gomez

...and page 2....

rotarygod

That's a complete steaming pile of bs that Mazda printed up. NO synthetic currently on the market will have any adverse effects on the older rotaries seals. That sounds like a lame excuse to justify the confusion. They also seem to be hoping that the current rotary owners will not have any previous experience so they can get away with saying these stupid things. Their statement may have applied to the early synthetic oils but definitely nothing currently. I have used synthetics for years with no adverse effects.

It's funny how no one believes Mazda when they state horsepower numbers for the car, yet people quote them for other things. It's all or nothing. Believe them or don't. I personally know for a fact that the engine will be fine with synthetics. I've done it. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily any better, just that they will work and cause no harm.

If an oil has a rating on it and the vehicle manufacturer has stated that oils with this rating are suitable for their vehicle, it doesn't matter what type of oil it is. Mazda recommends synthetics in europe. As much as I hate to say it, there is nothing special about the U.S. that would make oils or cars here any different.

Gord96BRG

Your average everyday synthetic oil is just fine for the Renesis - use Castrol Syntec 5W30, or Mobil1 5W30, no problem. If you can find synthetic 5W20, use that! Make sure it's API SL, though.

Regards,
Gordon

Rotary Titus

cool I can only find 0W20 form mobil1 but it says "forumulated for 5w20 applications" so I'm putting some in tonight
will let you guys know if it blows up :D

LOL this is great, from knowing about cars till now I've NEVER guessed owning an RX8 would let me into these privileged discussions :D I mean, HOW MANY ppl can tell you they can have so much to talk about their cars just with the type of oil (never mind what brand) :p

Gomez

I'm new at this Mazda game, this is my first rotary....For what reason would Mazda have a bias against synthetics?

Mazdaspeed market a synthetic that they used at LeMans in their racers to great success.

You, I assume have owned a number of rotaries, and have had no problem with synthetics......How many cars though? Ten....Twenty?

Your mates have owned another hundred?

Mazda have produced hundred's of thousands of these things....

The data that they have collected over 30 odd years of rotary production should allow them to make the claim that a synthetic is no good for long term applications....O.K for a racecar that needs extreme protection in a high stress, high temp, short term environment. They get rebuilt each race.

So why believe Mazda have it in for synthetic oils, they sell the stuff themselves in a Mazdaspeed tin!

Gomez.

fietguy

Dear Rotary God, could you please explain why the letter by Mazda is a steaming pile of BS? You seem to only explain that you personally have had no problems with synthetic, this is hardly confirmation to suggest synthetic is best for the 8 -
please elaborate why synthetic will not harm the apex seals.

rotarygod

Their paperwork suggests that synthetics are not compatible with the older rotaries. I know this to be untrue. Maybe if you go back to the '70's but not with the RX-7's. I have used synthetics in my past rotaries with no problems. I have also rebuilt my own engines and found no adverse internal effects. The rebuilds were not due to dead engines but rather from a porting standpoint. Their paperwork actually suggests that synthetics will work fine with the RX-8 and there is no reason why it shouldn't.

While I have used synthetics in the past, I actually prefer good oil dino oil. This is solely based on price. As far as synthetics go I am a fan of Royal Purple and Amsoil. I also know better than to believe the hype about 3000 mile oil changes.

Personally I don't care who uses what in their own cars. It really doesn't matter to me. Synthetics work just fine. Why wouldn't they? The do not eat rubber seals.

So many RX-8 people use terms like "it doesn't say that in the manual" and other excuses. The manual also doesn't say to replace your intake with a K&N. It doesn't say to replace your exhaust system or ecu either. You guys don't believe them at all when it comes to the car's rated output of 238hp and get mad at them about gas mileage. People constantly complain about dealerships not using the recommended oils. After all of this why in the hell does anyone believe what they say when it comes to synthetics? There have been many independent tests done over the years. There are also many rotary owners that use synthetics.

So many people don't believe the words of the people that have done it and found it to work yet they believe the people that they accuse of lying to them about other aspects of the car (Mazda?). The problem is obvious to me. Where's the issue?

Personally I don't really care what others think. Synthetics work fine in the rotary. Myself and many others have done it with no issues. Don't you honestly think that there would be a large number of people that would post negative info about synthetics in rotaries if there were problems? It would be all over the internet but it isn't.

Just to shoot down the remark about me only knowing because I must have owned hundreds of rotaries and that Mazda should know better, here's a little info for you. Yes, they do know their car better than anyone but the Renesis is capable of much better fuel mileage, much more power, and still retaining the ability to pass all U.S. emissions standards. Shouldn't the people that designed and built the thing already know this and shouldn't they have already done it on the production car? Is there a possible reason why they are constantly giving us new ecu maps if the original one is the best it can be? Remember they should know the best. Don't they know why their car floods easier than others? If they are so high and mighty, wouldn't the all knowing powers that be have provided us with the most reliable vehicle around? You still believe everything they say? I'll leave it at that.

bureau13

When I was trying to decide if I should use synthetics in my FD, I asked around on the RX7 forum and various other places. Lots of people will pipe up and repeat all the hearsay. I found only ONE person who had ANY direct personal experience that had even a remote chance of being associated with the oil, and that was back in the early '70s. More surprising was the large number of people who admitted to using the synthetic stuff...in many cases for years and years, some haveing torn down engines for comparison purposes, etc. They didn't jump in every time the topic came up because (and I'm starting to get this feeling myself) it was too annoying to hear the same unsubstantiated BS given as reasons for not using it. So, they kept using it, quite happily, and stopped paying attention to the threads discussing it.

The only thing that might make me not want to use it when I get an RX-8 is that I'm not sure the benefits are substantial enough to outweigh the cost differences. For the FD, turbos put a huge stress on the oil, but for a normally-aspirated car...the benefits would seem to be less.

jds

Gord96BRG

Also worth noting - that Memo is NOT from Mazda Corporation, it was published by Mazda Australia, one of their regional companies. It's no different than Mazda North America or Mazda Europe offering different opinions...

Regards,
Gordon

Gomez

Hang on, read it again.......it clearly references MC in the memo.....in fact it says Mazda Aust is importing Mazda Corp Rotary Oil....that memo is drafted on advice supplied by MC.

Gomez.

Gomez

Didn't the RX-7 have a decal under the hood advising against the use of synthetics, even the late series????

Lead me to these independent tests, I'd like a read......and I still have yet to hear a reason why you all believe Mazda have a vendetta against synthetic oils.....as I said before, they even market and sell the stuff for racing applications!!!!!!

Yours in anticipation, Gomez.

kbull

Perhaps it's not a vendetta against synthetics. Maybe one car out of a thousand has failed over a ten year period due to synthetic oil, and Mazda feels that that warrants them putting the statement about synthetics in the manual. If that's the case, I'd say synthetics are fine, but I'm still going to obey the manual, more out of habit than anything else.

rotarygod, I assume you rebuilt an RX-7 engine after using synthetics? I understand that you found no incriminating evidence against the use of synthetics, but out of curiosity, how long did you drive the car? A 200k mile rotary run on synthetic would seem to justify that synthetics work fine, IMHO.

BaronVonBigmeat

Probably at least one of two things is at work regarding their "vendetta":

1) The dealers want to sell oil changes. From what I understand, this sort of minor thing is the service departments' "bread and butter". Synthetic = fewer changes = less cash. In Europe apparently, people are already used to 6,000 mile oil changes.

2) The RX-8 uses about...1/2 a quart every 1000 miles (?). So with a 3.7 quart capacity, it only takes 6,000 miles (or less?) to get dangerously low on oil. Mazda may be covering their butts against people who buy a quart of synthetic and think they can go 6,000 - 12,000 between oil changes because it says so on the bottle.

Gord--would you happen to have a copy of the European service manual scanned, where they specifically say synth. is ok? My dealer didn't give me any trouble last time but if they ever do, I'd like to have that in my glovebox. :D

Gomez

Hmmmm, Mazda set their service intervals....they could have specified synthetic and a 4500mi period and milked it for heaps!
A bigger margin on a more expensive oil.....

On point 2, their out if someone tries that on is in the Owners manual....the copy of the U.S manual I have states changes at 7500mi for schedule 1 , and 5000mi for schedule 2 (which I reckon most U.S drivers would be operating to.....)

Also, your manual recommends a check of the oil level each tankfull.....(ours says each week).........

I realise you sometimes can't protect people from themselves, though!!!

Gomez.

davefzr

Did he ever post the results? I didnt see a thread on them...

1stRX8

Ooops, I forgot.

The RP vs. mineral dyno indicated a few hp increase on my car. The oil was changed on the dyno so we did non disturb the setup.

I have been using RP since David donated a few oil changes to me for the dyno and RX-8 time. The dyno data is on my home PC. I will try to remember to post it. My CZ unit was not doing so well that day and it distracted me from the original purpose of testing the RP product.

T-Ren

Always used syn and just put some Royal Purple in.

i don't buy a blanket statement that some thing is not good without some details as to why. and mazda have not provided any documentation anywhere as to WHY syn should not be used in the 13b.

As RG stated syn oils meet the same specs as DINO and that's what matters, but they also have a better performace range. hence the benefits.

many manufacturers recommend syn from a factory fill, especially on hotter running engines like the sti and evo.

BTW, i also put a drop in K&N tonight as well

Tony Orlando

For those interested, I just passed 17K miles on the RP, and then engine hasn't destroyed itself yet.

zoom44

oh but it could go at ANY MINUTE!!

Gomez

Yeah, they have....and I posted it earlier in this thread.

bureau13

OK then, let's put it this way: Mazda has provided numerous bits of evidence which directly or indirectly indicate their opinions both pro and con with respect to synthetic oil and rotaries. They're the John Kerry of the automotive world! :D

jds

PS: Since I know someone will ask...there was the article provided by Gomez on the con side, and the fact that they actually recommend synthetic in rotaries in some parts of the world on the other. There have been other contradictory statements and actions as well but you'll have to do your own search to find them.

Gomez

Hahaha, but hey, JK is a war hero....lay off him!