Rotary_Italia

Hi all,
Mazda just presented the 8 here in Italy with a quite big event in Rimini. The only version aviable will the 231hp version, which disappoints me a bit. I'm thinking about how mazda reduced power and thus how to restore original power. Probably they have modified the ECU's software mapping, it's the most convenient way to do such an operation because no mechanical parts are involved. If i'm right, it would be quite easy to restore the original spec power just reflashing the ECU with the USA or Japan spec software mapping. Warranty and reliability would be assured because it would be an "mod" coming by mazda and, basically, Renesis has been designed from beginning to handle 247hp power. Any european going to do it? comments?

*R_I*

wakeech

to do so, one would first need to identify ALL of the real (not guessed) differences between the car, and then the simple bit would be to import the bits and put them on.

although it's origional Mazda, i sincerely doubt Mazda of Italy would install smog-illegal parts on your car, my friend, and still cover them under warrantee... at the very least, don't expect to have a car which would pass emissions tests (if you have them) although you'd be getting the car with factory-reliable performance.

Quick_lude

That's only if you have the ability to flash the chip. Also, not all ECU's can be "reflashed", you might actuallly have to swap one which won't be cheap or available for a while until people start writing the 8 off through collisions.

RobDickinson

It will be possible.

The RX-8 has a 32 bit flashable ECU.

The reason were down to 231 PS is because of Euro 4 emmisions standards, which dont come into force until 2004/5.

Its a 'good thing' in the motor industry for mazda to be able to say the RX-8 meets Euro4 (plus they dont have to do any work in 4/5). Rotaries have been known to have poor emmisions and this shows that its not true for the 8.

On the good side for us (possibly) is the fact that the car purchased this year, doesnt have to meet Euro4 emmisions, ever.

So we can flash the ECU to a higher tune. What that is No one knows, as the europ car was stated to have 240ps before.

Whats acceptable for current euro emmisions? 240ps? 250ps? Who knows, and we dont have the 240ps option atm.

Also if its not a dealer update, it will void the warrenty. No way am I doing that on my car until its out of its warrenty (3y, 36kmiles in UK).

If the dealers offer 240/250ps for nominal charge (> £500) and keeps warrenty I'll go for it.

wakeech

...thread creep alert...

just a little tidbit for those new to the engine: the wankel was actually considered good on emissions before HC (hydro-carbon, meaning in this case, gasoline) emissions were considered a pollutant. by nature (i don't know specifically what feature of) it produces low levels of NOx, which is that wicked awful brown gas (which is quite leathal in concentrated ammounts... fume hood with the door CLAMPED shut was more than necessary in chem) that makes smog give us such pretty sunsets after we've filled the sky full of it.

rpm_pwr

The very nature of "flash" means it can be re-programmed. So in the same way you can flash in the 250PS maps, you could flash the 231 maps in just prior to servicing and or emissions testing.

-pete

Lensman

Yeah, but as has been pointed out there's a damned good reason why we expect engines to conform to emissions standards.

rpm_pwr

But surely your car would still conform to the currently enforcable emissions standard?

-pete

RobDickinson

The only thing we know is the 231ps conforms to Euro4 emmisions(or whatever).

Theres nothing saying the 250ps engine map conforms to current Euro emmisions. It may well do, it might not tho.

And there is nothing in between so far, there was supposed to be a 240ps version ere but that got lowered to 231, the 240 may pass current emmisions but not the Euro4 so it was lowered.

Nothing wrong in flashing the 250ps, and re-flashing the 231 for MOT's (first one is after 3 years of ownership). Nothing apart from the probable expense (wont be a home done job) and the occasional roadside emmisions testing thats getting more and more popular, I know 1 or 2 roads that they target near where I live.

shahpor

There is?

I, for one, am not so sure.

I would have no reservations in flashing the ECU if the only problem is increased emissions.

I don't think it is fair to blame the average motorist for pollutions when they only contribute to a fraction of it. Buses and lorries produces a hell of a lot of it, so why aren't they more heavily penalised?

My only concern would be the warranty issue, but I suspect that the dealer would be hard pressed to find any changes.

Shahpor

Lensman

Tsk, tsk! We all have to help solve the problem however small the contribution. What your saying is why should I recycle my single wine bottle when millions of them are produced? Well if we all said that.... etc... rant... tree-hugging bollocks etc...

Sputnik

This is a 2004 model, wouldn't it have to meet 2004 emission specs?

---jps

Lensman

As far as I'm aware they don't take effect for another 3 years.

shahpor

No what I am saying is that my small contribution means nothing while the bigger problem exists.

Besides, we are talking about raising the emissions slightly. It should still conform to current regulations.

Besides, if you look at the CO2 emissions, then the 8 is hardly the cleanest car out there to start with.

If you start thinking about emissions so much, then you will end up not buying certain cars because they pollute too much!

Shahpor

PS This is just my opinion, and if you feel that it is not worth upgrading the cars cause it will pollute too much, then I say go with whatever you feel is right

hairyfrog

I think the worlds going a bit mad on this pollution thing. Soon we'll all be driving pollution free cars, drinking toxin free alcohol, eating fat free food and we'll die of BOREDOM!

Give me back my bhp I say !:D

kidmarc

Rotary_Italia

In all likelihood, you will void the warranty. The modification, although with OEM settings, is to a specification that is EU emissions based. Thus it is an EU issue; not a manufacturer's issue. You have an origination of sale that covers the vehicle. If the vehicle had originated outside of the EU, then the situation is more favorable to you.

Your best option (given your assumption of the PS drop is correct) is to replace EPROMS when necessary (emissions testing). Otherwise you will have to find a way to correct the emissions after increasing the PS.

With regard to emissions and buses, it is a numbers game. There are more cars per capita in operation than buses or lorries; the numbers make up the difference.

The problem with emissions is the ruling of how to do it. The codes governing this should be open on how it's done; it should matter least how you get there as long as you do.

Peace
marcus

rpm_pwr

The 250 doesnt pass current euro emissions. The OZ-spec 241HP version does pass current euro emissions, and has passed the Euro 3 test which comes into effect here in 2005.

Here is the future emissions standards for OZ, which the RX-8 has passed:
http://www.angvc.org/emissionsstandards.htm

-pete

ChrisW

So that would mean that if we could get hold of the ECU code for Australian cars we could get 240 PS (=177KW from Mazda Australia website) and a guaranteed pass under current Euro 3 emissions rules (assuming we could confirm that the ECU is the only difference).

I wonder if its really worth it for just another 9 hp?