rorr

New member here and already starting trouble....

I was asking a question in the RX-8 forum over at Edmunds.com and one of the more knowledgable/informative members refered me to you guys:

I'm exploring the idea of building a Lotus 7. Typically, these are powered by 1.6l - 2.0l Fords. A manufacturer here in Texas tho is building Lotus 7's using the drivetrain from Honda S2000's. I started thinking about 240 odd hp in a 1250lb 'car' and started salivating. But to be a bit different, I started wondering about using the motor/tranny from the RX-8 instead. I figured that if anything else, the availability would be better (cheaper?) for these components based purely on production numbers.

Which leads to my question: What are the external dimensions of the Renesis (sans AC) and 6sp tranny? Also, what is the total weight of these units? I know the S2000 uses an aluminum block/heads and is supposed to be very compact and light for a 4-banger but I've no idea how it compares to the Renesis.

Thoughts? Raspberries?

magixpuma

I have no tech aspects to add rather than this would be AWESOME capital AWESOME
Hope it all works out and u stay on this forum,

LittleJohn

Except with an elise...
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the celica engine is physically larger and heavier than the renisis, but the renesis is way more powerful.
Only thing is that the renesis is way more thirsty to.... so you'd need a much larger fuel tank to get some decent mileage....
Imagine 177 to 200kw driving a 700kg car (roughly)

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I posted this in general auto. on the same thing. As nice as the Renesis would be in a car like that (or the Elise, which is what I was thinking), I think there would be alot more fabrication to make a rotary fit vs. a 4 cyl. Man, an Elise with a Hytech modified K20 engine (worth around 250-260 HP at the wheels)------droool

ezrider55

I would suggest a search on engine weight or dimentions as I remember a thread talking about both.

Rotarian_SC

According to the threads I've seen the Renesis is smaller. Good luck on the project.

bassik277

There was a member on here, (I cant remember his user name offhand) who has a renesis motor in good condition for sale if you are interested. Try a search for it.

KKMmaniac

Sorry rorr:

I can't give you any specifics, but the Renesis is pretty much the same size and shape as the peripheral exhaust port 13B. (unless the different exhaust manifold shape and location create interference with the frame tubing) I know the Rotus 7 replica commonly used rotaries, as well as the Toyota 1600 DOHC (1st gen. MR2) motor, so I'd think it would be very likely it would fit.

I've often wanted to put a 12A or 13B in a Lotus Europa, but of course, (especially around here) finding one is pretty unlikely. and then locating a source for an engine-to-transaxle adapting plate might be difficult.

If you can, find an RX8 (or maybe a Mazda-Star pro racer?) and do some careful measuring and inspection It sounds like a really cool project you wish to undertake. Good luck!

policyvote

Many people have put a 13b in a Seven copy. See last year's Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car Challenge. This one dude built an extremely lightwieght Seven copy and put a 13b in it. He called it a "Laminar Concepts SRX-7". I have to think that the Renesis would work equally well, though obviously FI would not be an option.

Peace
policy

rorr

Thanks guys. I had seen a couple of the posts regarding the Elise but since that car is set up to take a tansverse engine and transaxle, I would imagine a Renesis transplant would not be a straightforward afair.

I'll try the search for engine weight/dimensions and see what pops up. At this time, I'm more interested in the overall weight for both the motor and tranny and comparing those figures to the Honda drivetrain. The front of Lotus 7 is simple enough and both of these motors are small enough that fitting them shouldn't be a problem (though I'm curious about tranny width at the bell housing since will effect the tunnel width and foot room).

PHANTOR

I would think that the renesis is designed to fit farther back and lower in the car, therefore you would need to custom the length of drive train and do some serious mods to the front of the lotus to get it mounted in a decent position.

Just a thought though, like the other guy mentioned on this forum a rsx types K2o japan spec motor with a few mods would be pushing well over 250 horsepower. with at least 210 pounds of torque. Not to mention prospects of FI. That would be a monster set up.

Then again, I know of a company that is currently in the works of Finishing the tuning on a supercharger for the Renesis motor. These will be up for sale soon. And I am thinking it will at least break 400 horsepower.

Good luck though, I am giddy just thinking about it.

Drive it like you stole it.

bureau13

I used to see a guy at Moroso with an Austin Healey replica powered by a turbo 13B from a TII. Very cool.

jds

jgellsworth

who is making the supercharger? Are there any details posted yet?

PoorCollegeKid

The 2ZZGE is around 50lbs lighter than the physically smaller Renesis.

PHANTOR

I do not know if they want me lettin anyone who is puttin it out or any other details yet. Anyways, I think they will be releasing all info in 2-4 weeks anyways.

rorr

Excellent! Now we're getting somewhere....

Assuming you are correct, (and I found the physical dims and wt for the Toyota mill in that link), that puts the weight for the Renesis at about 300#'s (115kg x 2.2lb/kg + 50lbs). Is this correct? And just what ARE the actual Renesis engine dimensions?

Maybe if I just picked up the phone and called the a service writer at my local helpful Mazda dealer, they would yank a motor/tranny and.......nah.

PoorCollegeKid

According to what I've found, the Renesis weighs in at 303lbs. The only problem with putting a Renesis in a car that requires a transversely mounted engine is having to find or fabricate a transversely mounted transmission that will match up to the engine. There are examples of rotary powered Elises, however, so someone has found a way to do this; it just depends on how much money, time, and effort you want to spend on a swap. The aforementioned Lotus 7 uses a FR configuration, however, so this will not be a problem. With that car, it's more a matter of finding a way to mount the engine in the engine bay, but if an F20C and its transmission can fit in the car, I see no reason why a 13B-MSP wouldn't fit. Again, it all comes down to how much money, time, and effort you want to spend on the car.

JeRKy 8 Owner

The Lotus isfinally arriving in the US startingat 40k. I heardtheyhave a stock 0-60 of 5 sec and weigh lessthan a ton. I wouldntchange a thing on that car

rorr

PoorCollegeKid -

Thanks for the info. I'm not real sure how the topic drifted to the Elise. but swapping a Renesis into the Elise is definitely NOT what I was contemplating. I'm simply planning a Lotus 7 build and trying to determine whether I wanted to base the drivetrain around the S2000 or RX-8. To that end, and because my goal is minimum curb weight, I've been trying to determine the weight of the respective motors and transmissions.

Now, assuming the F20C isn't some insane lightweight weighing around 250, I'll probably be going with the 13B.

wakeech

uh, i think you're definitely on crack. says nothing there about external dimensions, or the specifications of that mass. mazda's 1.6L is lighter than that Toyota 1.8L by a long way, and it's only barely lighter than the 13BMSP in dressed form.

the 13B IS smaller than your 2ZZ, and way the hell smaller than an F20C. as to the transmission sizes and their weights, i cannot say, but combined i'll bet the farm the 13BMSP and tranny is lighter than the Honda stuff.

wakeech

how about a search next time???

classic thread: https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/rotary-loses-vs-ohv-piston-engine-3390/

rorr

wakeech -

First, the link posted by poorcollegekid DOES list the pertinent specs for the Toyota 2ZZGE engine (LxWxH = 652mm x 608mm x 657mm). It also lists the weight at 115kg (=approx. 250 lbs.) Unless my math education deceives me, this places it approximately 50lbs lighter than the 13B-MSP which is listed at 303 lbs.

Second, thank you for the link. My initial precursory search didn't turn up that thread. And I did see in that thread a comparison to the 13B-MSP and the Honda F20C with the 13B at 303 lbs and the F20C at 326 lbs.

I keep seeing reference to size on the 13B as "way the hell smaller". Terrific. Any guesses as to actual dimensions?

nucleus

You can save additional weight by going with aluminum side and center housings from Racing beat. I'm attaching the drawings you need.

PoorCollegeKid

Quote taken from that link:

Displacement (cc) 1795
Bore x Stroke (mm) 82 x 85
Compression 11.5
Valve Train DOHC 4 Chain Driven VVTL-i
Aspiration natural
Cylinder Block Aluminum w/MMC liner
Bore Pitch (mm) 87.5
Bore wall (mm) 5.5
Valve Dia. (mm) Int 34 Exh 29
Max Power 135kw/7600rpm
Max Torque 180Nm/6800rpm
Size (LxWxH) (mm) 652 x 608 x 659
Dry weight 115kg

I'm not the one on crack here. All you have to do is scroll down.

I know about the older thread and I've referenced it several times in the past. However, that thread does not have any information on the external dimensions of the 2ZZGE, so I used the link to provide LittleJohn with more information on the Toyota/Yamaha engine than he would have easily found in any thread on this board.

05rx8mazda

iTrader: (4)

So i take it thise never happened hahaa