Protek-R?
06-29-2007, 07:35 AM
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Protek-R?
After reading the premix thread what is our position on Protek-R? Has anyone found it to clog fuel pumps? There is some evidence that two-stroke oil can but little to no info on Protek. Anyone?
06-29-2007, 08:27 AM
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06-29-2007, 09:59 AM
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read this post:
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=440
JFYI my fuel pump had about 5,000 miles on it at the time too, so it was fairly new ..
It's possible that running in Na form you'd never see issues, but when my gas tank was below 1/4th full, and I was in boost, it could not sustain the proper amount of fuel to keep my AFR in the safe range...
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=440
JFYI my fuel pump had about 5,000 miles on it at the time too, so it was fairly new ..
It's possible that running in Na form you'd never see issues, but when my gas tank was below 1/4th full, and I was in boost, it could not sustain the proper amount of fuel to keep my AFR in the safe range...
Last edited by mysql101; 06-29-2007 at 10:02 AM.
06-29-2007, 05:23 PM
#7
it is hard to scientifically say that using pre mix WILL clog your fuel pump. My little group has looked hard at this and the best lodgic we can come up with is that premix can possibily cause problems. It seems that pre mix may cause the sediment that is present in gas to be more "sticky" and over time it clogs the fuel pump socks. We in Georgia have seen 3-4 cars that this has happened too. With resulting fuel starvation issues and we had to get new pumps. I also sent the symtomatic pump off for testing and the pump volumne flow was down approx 30%.!
I also have found that if you pre mix AND add Lucus upper lube control stuff then something oily will separate out---overnight and until you toss your car around a little it stays separated. That is not good.
I still believe this engine needs more lubrication for longevity.
However if I was boosting I would not premix with the stock fuel system--to easy to run lean and loose the engine.
I currently add only 1/4 oz per gallon, on the street and 1/2 oz on the track. I cant help myself. I guess the fuel pump will be a mantinence item like the plugs and coils.
olddragger
I also have found that if you pre mix AND add Lucus upper lube control stuff then something oily will separate out---overnight and until you toss your car around a little it stays separated. That is not good.
I still believe this engine needs more lubrication for longevity.
However if I was boosting I would not premix with the stock fuel system--to easy to run lean and loose the engine.
I currently add only 1/4 oz per gallon, on the street and 1/2 oz on the track. I cant help myself. I guess the fuel pump will be a mantinence item like the plugs and coils.
olddragger
06-29-2007, 07:13 PM
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Hard to see why would the fuel pump socks would select to pull the oil out of its mixture with gasoline... I would think the gunk found was from fuel - esp. high octane fuels, that contain more ethanol, can make more gunk in time that is not soluble in gasoline. Oil might be trapped in the gunk because you have an almost empty gas tank with some gunk at the bottom, and you add oil first, then you fill the gasoline. This way, the gunk might contain oil but not be because of the premix.
I run premix for the last (and only) 55,000 miles without issues. I stick with Shell or BP 87 and the premix is FP60 plus SAE30 SA oil (no additives, just base stock).
I run premix for the last (and only) 55,000 miles without issues. I stick with Shell or BP 87 and the premix is FP60 plus SAE30 SA oil (no additives, just base stock).
06-29-2007, 10:29 PM
#9
Its really hard to say now, I think it has something to do with Gas quality more than Premix itself.
my car can get Rotor Misfire if I use BP, even 93 (confirmed a bit earlier), everything else seems fine. maybe just the station, but the station just came online like last year so I dunno.
my car can get Rotor Misfire if I use BP, even 93 (confirmed a bit earlier), everything else seems fine. maybe just the station, but the station just came online like last year so I dunno.
06-30-2007, 07:48 AM
#13
right swoope--only use a full synthetic ,idemisu is not full synthetic --but they know what they are doing obviously.
bxp-- all i can say is that when we looked at our socks they were definitely "oily" to touch and some were almost completely clogged. The internal filter had to be affected for the reduced flow rate as the pump was tested without the sock. If you ever run a 2 cycle engine with a non specific fuel filter ---say from walmart or somewhere---the fuel filter will clog in just a little bit---not because of sediment---but because of the pre mix. The oil and gas do not combine to make a solution--rather they combine to make a mixture--a suspension if you will. (this is simplifying things I know) so "some" pre mix will adhere to the sock--its going to happen--now combine that with the sediment found in all gas ---thats our conclusion. basically what you have said also. I also agree that it would be best to actually mix the premix with some gas before it is poured into the tank. but thats an incontinence.
Now I advise people to never let this car get to 1/4 tank. 2 reasons--
1- the fuel pump switches to high speed mode all the time(we do have a 2 speed fuel pump)
2- to keep the sediment less concentrated(that may sound stupid and i admit i need more medication).
MM is finding some interesting things out about our omp---did you know we have a "minimum" stop set screw on it?
olddragger
bxp-- all i can say is that when we looked at our socks they were definitely "oily" to touch and some were almost completely clogged. The internal filter had to be affected for the reduced flow rate as the pump was tested without the sock. If you ever run a 2 cycle engine with a non specific fuel filter ---say from walmart or somewhere---the fuel filter will clog in just a little bit---not because of sediment---but because of the pre mix. The oil and gas do not combine to make a solution--rather they combine to make a mixture--a suspension if you will. (this is simplifying things I know) so "some" pre mix will adhere to the sock--its going to happen--now combine that with the sediment found in all gas ---thats our conclusion. basically what you have said also. I also agree that it would be best to actually mix the premix with some gas before it is poured into the tank. but thats an incontinence.
Now I advise people to never let this car get to 1/4 tank. 2 reasons--
1- the fuel pump switches to high speed mode all the time(we do have a 2 speed fuel pump)
2- to keep the sediment less concentrated(that may sound stupid and i admit i need more medication).
MM is finding some interesting things out about our omp---did you know we have a "minimum" stop set screw on it?
olddragger
06-30-2007, 08:48 AM
#14
right swoope--only use a full synthetic ,idemisu is not full synthetic --but they know what they are doing obviously.
bxp-- all i can say is that when we looked at our socks they were definitely "oily" to touch and some were almost completely clogged. The internal filter had to be affected for the reduced flow rate as the pump was tested without the sock. If you ever run a 2 cycle engine with a non specific fuel filter ---say from walmart or somewhere---the fuel filter will clog in just a little bit---not because of sediment---but because of the pre mix. The oil and gas do not combine to make a solution--rather they combine to make a mixture--a suspension if you will. (this is simplifying things I know) so "some" pre mix will adhere to the sock--its going to happen--now combine that with the sediment found in all gas ---thats our conclusion. basically what you have said also. I also agree that it would be best to actually mix the premix with some gas before it is poured into the tank. but thats an incontinence.
Now I advise people to never let this car get to 1/4 tank. 2 reasons--
1- the fuel pump switches to high speed mode all the time(we do have a 2 speed fuel pump)
2- to keep the sediment less concentrated(that may sound stupid and i admit i need more medication).
MM is finding some interesting things out about our omp---did you know we have a "minimum" stop set screw on it?
olddragger
bxp-- all i can say is that when we looked at our socks they were definitely "oily" to touch and some were almost completely clogged. The internal filter had to be affected for the reduced flow rate as the pump was tested without the sock. If you ever run a 2 cycle engine with a non specific fuel filter ---say from walmart or somewhere---the fuel filter will clog in just a little bit---not because of sediment---but because of the pre mix. The oil and gas do not combine to make a solution--rather they combine to make a mixture--a suspension if you will. (this is simplifying things I know) so "some" pre mix will adhere to the sock--its going to happen--now combine that with the sediment found in all gas ---thats our conclusion. basically what you have said also. I also agree that it would be best to actually mix the premix with some gas before it is poured into the tank. but thats an incontinence.
Now I advise people to never let this car get to 1/4 tank. 2 reasons--
1- the fuel pump switches to high speed mode all the time(we do have a 2 speed fuel pump)
2- to keep the sediment less concentrated(that may sound stupid and i admit i need more medication).
MM is finding some interesting things out about our omp---did you know we have a "minimum" stop set screw on it?
olddragger
06-30-2007, 10:27 AM
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Well, oil and gasoline are perfectly miscible (they are the same chemicals, just different "size" of carbon chains, and both come from the same crude but have different boiling points - due to their sizes). What I mean by oil is pure base stock. Premix is a very concentrated dispersion of innorganic detergent in oil, and that is not too happy to be in gasoline, hence to the premix they add esters or alcohols to keep it happy. The question is, do you want the premix for lubrication, cleaning, or both? I decided I need it only for lubrication, hence I use pure base stock motor oil (grade SAE30 SA non additive motor oil, $1 at Walmart and such). That one is perfectly miscible with gasoline in any amount, at any temperature... For cleaning and stabilization, I add also FP60. Also, gasoline has cleaners and other combustion helpers in it, so I should be good.
If I was to give an advice, I'd say to use things that do one job at a time, to be on the safe side. I only want to have extra oil in the engine in case my OMP is confused (by ECU, by the Mazda flash, by etc.). Cheap insurance, that's all. No need to make life more complicated ;o)
PS OR, did not know about the setting screw - anything for us to tinker with? ;o)
If I was to give an advice, I'd say to use things that do one job at a time, to be on the safe side. I only want to have extra oil in the engine in case my OMP is confused (by ECU, by the Mazda flash, by etc.). Cheap insurance, that's all. No need to make life more complicated ;o)
PS OR, did not know about the setting screw - anything for us to tinker with? ;o)
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