syelenik

I am analyzing the feasibilility of using a Resesis Rotary engine in a Project Delorean. I believe crate engines are not availble and I woul dhave to find a wrecked auto. My question is if I find an engine, ECU ad harness, will this work without all of the other peripheral elctronics?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yes it should work perfectly. With a 4 port Renesis engine it should do 0-60 in under six minutes.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Depending on what ECU you get, you may or may not need those other electronics. The ECU holds lots of those data points in it. For example bypassing the immobilizer is an option, or just pull it from the wrecked donor. The ABS is on all ECUs, but killing that isn't really an issue. The TCS/DSC of non-base models could be somewhat of an issue, but also bypass-able. I also don't know what happens if there is no steering rack data (there are tables for our electrically assisted steering change in the ECU), etc...


In general though, getting a wrecked 8 and pulling all parts/wiring/electronics you need from it should provide a source for everything you need. Rear damaged is obviously better, though there is something to be said for locating an 8 that isn't wrecked, but just has a blown engine and getting the engine rebuilt. Either are equally viable options.

Obsidian

Yeah, might want to find a torquier engine to pull that stainless steel beast around.. Might leave a bit to be desired.

On a side note, I saw a delorean today!

syelenik

9krpmrx8, that doesn't answer what I asked and it won't work prefectly as you suggest. I am very aware of engine and wieight issues. It will take a lot of tweaking. I am quite aware of the low torque or an rx8. I own a 2008 40th Anniversary and I run it at the track often. Some physics makes sense here. The RX8 is a litle over 3,000 pounds and has about 230 horsepower give or take. The stock Delorean is 2,700 pounds (lighter than an RX8) and as a project car for the track would be shed of a lot of weight, a bit added for restructuring the flexible frame and putting in a custom roll cage. Seats out, AC out all interior out, lot of the fiberglass that isn't needed out, etc. So with a better front to rear weight balance and less weight and oh going from a delorean stock 130hp to 230hp in less weight than an RX8 isn't as crazy as you might suggest. There are many other engine options for a Delorean. Electric, 3 rotor Wankel, crate V6's crate, crate V8's, Alpine engine, Eagle Premier engine, etc. etc. I like the idea of our RX8 rotary because of the horsepower to engine weight and because John Delorean visioned/intended of having a Rotary in the Delorean. And its a lot of horsepower for the engine weight. But I digress from the real question of this post.

Thank you RIWWP, your thoughtful response is what I am trying to sort out. It seems that the ECU is controlling so much more than the engine. ABS, TCS, DSC, steering, etc. When you say bypassable do you mean hard wiring, programming or both?

By immobilizer, is that a "alarm", like starter bypass, engine shutdown?

Obsidian, you are right on, low torque, at the track with the RX8 in the twisties I stay in 2nd not 3rd, or 4th unless I run out of rpm. Tracking at 8,500 to 9,500 rpm scares the cars behind you when blue flames shoot out! :-) The RX8 handles so well in the curves the higher torque/horspower cars can pass on the straight and then get in our way in the turns. We blow them away there. So after a few laps the RX8 is in the game. Horsepower and torque go a long way but don't finish, well unless you are racing in a stright line! :-)

Guys thanks for responding to the thread.

bse50

Since it will be a track car why don't you consider getting an engine only and driving it with a standalone ecu?
They're pretty expensive but will make everything easier to sort out. PCM+AIM and you're good to go

syelenik

I wasn't aware of standalone ECU. Where would they be bought?

bse50

There are many distributors scattered all over the world.
You should first find a good manufacturer: Motec, link g4, adaptronic, haltech etc all make cheap and reliable units.

Make a list of what you need electronics wise and pick the right one for the job

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

NP, I've got plans written up for a Renesis Miata, and I've targeted alot of the trouble points I will likely run into for pre-solving

The immobilizer is standard Mazda anti-theft, disabling the ignition/fuel (i think, it might be disabling the starter, but I think it's spark/fuel) if it doesn't see the key fob. Some people bypass it by anchoring a key fob somewhere under the dash where the immobilizer will always see it. You can also get a set of keys paired with it, or physically disable it through wiring (though I have no idea what all is involved in that)

It pretty much depends on which module you are trying to work around what the best solution will be for you. This is the biggest reason to buy an entire 8 to do it though, because if you need a control module, you can pull the one that the ECU has been talking to for it's whole life, rather than hunting around hoping to find someone selling one, and hoping it works with your ECU right. There is alot on an 8 you won't use, but the better condition the 8 is in that you get, the more money you will make back from parting everything else out. Plus, you can get a wrecked 8 for $3,000-$5,000 USD, and it will give you the engine ($2,000-$5,000), engine components ($2,000-$4,000) transmission ($500-$1,500), ECU ($1,800), wiring harness ($1,100 or so), steering rack if needed, $2,200), etc... By far the cheapest option even if you don't part out everything not needed and just junk it. But even if you just pull those items above, you can sell the rest by-piece for $2,000-$4,000 depending on how it was wrecked, what's damaged, the age, etc... It's pretty much a no-brainer assuming you have the space and time.

Entirely viable solution, but not as simple as bse makes it out to be As you research stand-alone ECUs to control the engine, you will have to rule out basically all the low tier affordable ones, as they won't have the number of ignition (4) and injector controls (6) you need, and/or OMP control, etc... Some have rotaries in mind when they are made, somewhat, but most don't.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The way I read it, by stating "wrecked auto", you meant a wrecked automatic RX-8. You do realize there is a 4 port (lower power) version of the Renesis right? Or, by "wrecked auto" did you mean wrecked RX-8 in general?

Either way like 99% of the other Renesis swap threads started, this will never happen.

bse50

If you factor in the engine layout of the DeLorean (R\R) most of the parts of a donor rx8 would be scrapped anyway unfortunately.
That's why the standalone looks like an even cheaper solution than buying an rx8 just for the engine (rebuild it anyway...) and ecu\wiring.
Working on the immobilizer may still be cheaper than a standalone though but you would miss all the added benefits.
OMP control can be run if "simplified" (vs rpm or load mostly) with one of their accessory inputs, the injectors would be the biggest concern actually.
If he hasn't got the room to properly fit a MAF friendly intake then alpha\n or map tuning could become a necessity, too

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Excellent points to keep in mind.

syelenik

9krpmrx8, you ae quite the guy, you seems to be the knower of all things, in your mind, you have no idea the odds of whether I do this. And your comments last night were off base too. I thought this forum was a place to help each other out and for knowlegde and comraderie. You sure like to throw out the shots. Oh well. Thank you to the rest of you for your advise and information.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

syelenik,

Don't take 9k's comments as offensive, they aren't intended that way. He is just quite a realist. His first comment was just a misinterpretation, his 2nd a simple fact of the boards. There have been very few successful swaps, and none of those have been posted about ahead of time. Even my own fits in that, I've talked about it plenty, but there are too many life challenges to keep me from doing it. The pretty standard rule is that those that have the time and money to do it, don't feel a need to ask around on the forums.

Nothing offensive intended, just reality.

9k is one of the good guys, an asset to the forums, even if he comes off like a dick sometimes.

syelenik

RIWWP thanks for the thoughts. I have the time and money an a lot of knowledge, just not recent knowledge on the ECU stuff, used to be in that game but lost it. I have many engine options, the rotary would be cool because of the light engine weight to power ratio. I can get a small block V8 crate engine for a whole lot cheaper, but I am tring to get the weight out of the back of the Delorean. It is acutally pretty light, lighter than an RX8 as I said and will be lighter, but I have to get the oversteer problem of all Deloreans solved (stock 35%/65% front to rear ratio) if this will be a real track car. So I don't want more weight in the back, we need less. Buying a wrecked, manual RX8, pulling everything may be cheaper than than the standalone. It is looking as you said that a stand alone is not cheap and does require another round of technical learning on top of the suspension technical knowledge I already have for the project. Anyways thanks for the advice and reference.

syelenik

And yes I already realized that an RX8 Auto has less horspower than an RX8 manual 6 speed. But maybe I will just go randomly pick a wereck any make or model and see if it works! I am out of here. I am in so many other clubs and forums that are nice and not sarcastic or flip.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

^ Sorry

syelenik

Ok, thanks for the apologize, let's move on.

I love my Mazda RX8 and track it regularly and I am in serious research for this project. In the last day or two we have taken a turn towards a crate GM LS2. There is not much weight difference whcih is a top priority. This Project Delorean is completely down to the frame in my barn and waiting form my reseach to be finished and a decision.

GM has many engines readily available as a crate engine with packages that include harness, electronic gas pedal, etc. etc. Seems much easier and more horsepower and torque and less fiddling around. As a Project track car not street car the correction of 35%/65% weight balance is more important than looking for horsepower. This might be plan that will work given other weight reduction plans and frame stiffening.