G8rboy

pic of the filter with red oil...

G8rboy

pic of red oil pooled in bottom of airbox...

G8rboy

pic of intake tube and throttle/intake manifold opening... notice the pooled oil in the tube, yet there's not a sign of oil the manifold opening-- it's clean & dry to the touch (and to the white paper towel I rubbed on it).

Omicron

Hmmm. Wonder if there'll be a TSB coming out on this soon...

KKMmaniac

Doctorr and others:

This oil in the airbox thing scares me a bit as well. I won't be replacing my air cleaner element for another couple months, (after sucking up the winter salt it's probably a good idea) but maybe there is a correlation between dealer or factory oil overfill and oily airbox/element. I'll let ya'all know what i find.

G8rboy, the element is probably supposed to be coated with oil as supplied, I know my Subarus elements were. I don't know why it would pool up in the airbox though. It appears the element has a spot where the oil is pretty thick.


Since my engine was (I thought) so heinously overfilled when I got the car, I'm expecting there may be a mess in there.

KKMmaniac

I tried doing a search for "PCV" and "check valve" and didn't find anything. Is it possible power needs to be applied to one of the solenoids or something before vacuum will pass through that hose? I don't see any evidence of a mechanical PCV valve on the engine anywhere.

Gyro

KKM...did you get a chance to look inside your airbox?

Gyro

Maybe thats the whole problem

oi812

I was the one that started this post and I still haven't gotten my car to a dealer yet. It's an hour away and difficult to get away from work. Service is open on Saturday, but get this they don't have any "factory trained" technicians on Saturdays so there is no way I'll bring it in on a weekend.

I checked the air box yesterday and it had about 1/2 as much oil mostly in the accordion boot again. It also had about 1/2 as many miles since I last cleaned it so it seems to be a fairly constant "flow". The first time the oil did have a red tint, this time it's more brown like the dip stick oil color. I think the oil must be getting in there when the car is idling or stopped since the throttle body and butterfly are dry (basically every thing up stream from the boot). If it was happening at high rpm, I would think the oil would be all over the throttle body and it's not, it seems to be just running down hill towards the air box. If there is no PCV valve, or it's malfunctioning, that may explain the condensation on the dip stick too. I wonder if the two problems are related?

On a side note, I removed the two screens in the intake tube the first time I found the oil. I was thinking they may be a flow restriction. The only thing I noticed was the rough idle while they were out, I put them back in yesterday, and the idle is smoother now. Fuel MPG on three tank full was exactly the same with and without too. Seems to me the screens are "flow straightners" for the sensor.

zoom44

exactly the help the airflow so that the MAF doesn't get false readings.

CERAMICSEAL

I hate to scare anyone but my observations so far with this are not pleasing. As usual I could be totally wrong.
I have observed no pcv valve either (don't think it needs it and I don't think they've used one in years.)
The ventilaton I've noticed so far is at the filler neck only (not at the hose indicated earlier). This also goes directly to the air intake hose.
Here's the bad part: a simple conclusion is that some are experiencing excessive crankcase pressure, most likely caused by blowby. In other words, combustion pressure may be getting by side seals, the new extra seal (I've forgotten what it's being called) and by the oil seals: forceing oil up the ventillation system.
Seem a little far fetched? I've seen some interesting things related to the side seal clearances being used on the renesis.
Another culprit could be the flatness or lack thereof of the flat housings. Often they are not flat even brand new.
I do hope I'm wrong.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, you are wrong.
As noted, there is a check valve (that is what a PCV valve is, BTW) in the other vent hose connected to the intake bellows.
Try it out, you will see what I mean.
This valve has failed on several cars and a combination of crankcase pressure and intake vacuum pulls oil into the intake.

I wouldn't post stuff like this if I hadn't tested it for myself...

Mr M

CERAMICSEAL, 'Cutoff seal' is the name you are looking for.
This problem has me stumped...
Red oil? What? On an M/T? There is no red oil in a M/T. Weird...

G8rboy

Yep- bright red, and very light weight. I went down in my basement and looked at some old aerosol K&N spray-on filter oil I had leftover from my Miata, and it's the same color and 'feel'. My filter is also pink, like it was lightly coated in the stuff. Made me wonder if on their long journey to the states if they were over-oiled, it could have collected to the front of the filter since it's at a tilt.

I'm going to clean up the airbox and the accordian tube today, and keep my eye on it every few days. I tried calling a few dealers yesterday, but most service departments were either closed, or their 'RX-8 guy' didn't work on saturdays. I'll try again tomorrow and see if I can talk with someone who has looked at several of these things, and can tell me if they're pre-oiled from the factory (and what they would look like if I tried to buy a new one from parts dept).

G8rboy

I just cleaned up the mess in the airbox, under the airbox, and in the tube... below is a pic of the paper towel I used to clean up the accordian tube- a very distinctive red. Smelling it also clues me off- there's not a hint of used motor oil to it (no gassy smell).

One of my concerns of this issue is the MAF sensor- if that gets coated it can't do it's job well- so I just pulled it and checked it out, and it's dry- not a hint of the mystery oil on it, which was a relief. This stuff is heavy enough to stay in along the bottom of the tube. I rotated my filter 180degrees so the sucking will occur at the clean end of the filter... hopefully any oil entering from the motor side would stain this spot, so I'll keep an eye on it.

jerrymac

purchased Jan 04, 2004 dry as a bone

G8rboy

Thanks for checking... are we talking about the filter, the intake tube, or both? Also, out of curiousity, what's your build date?

TitaniumRX8MD

Check mine also and it was also dry.

G8rboy

Update-

I talked on the phone with a couple of service guys today at the local dealerships, and neither had heard of this yet (either why there's oil in the airbox, or where in the vehicle red oil would come from). One thought it might be failed ventilation/PCV issue, but when I described the color/smell of it, he said couldn't be that, then. Both also said the filter element comes dry, not oiled... so I'm still stumped.

I figured I would kill two birds with one stone and get my airbag wiring harness replaced at the same time I show them this 'issue', so I'm scheduled for a week from today. I saved my soaked paper towels in a baggy so they can try to figure out what it is, although there's still enough in the filter as well I'm sure. I'll post any info as I get it...

brothervoodoo

Hello all, I checked mine after reading through this thread and want to give an update. I have sub 3000 VIN vehicle received in late July. Took a close look at the air filter, bottom of the bin and holder, all pieces are dry as a bone. My filter color was white on one side and pink on the other.

my10ae

I removed my K&N intake today to find oil inside the tubing. Nothing saturated, but there was a nice thin film of oil lined on the inside.(MAF dry) Put back to oem till the CF heat shield is release from VR. Gonna make an appt. to get this looked at at the dealer. Who ever gets this fix done first, please post up on what the fix was.

Thanks...

good'ol63

Actually, Ceramic is correct in one area and mistaken in another:
the hose that Maniac points out goes to a block that provides an air supply to the oil metering nozzles. The line off the filler tube appears to be the only crankcase vent. Where he's wrong is the 3rd gen has a pcv valve.
Hopefully his guess as to the cause of this will also be wrong.

Habeeb

I've been mistaken about if there is positive or negative vacuum to that hose going to the oil injection nozzles... or is it just an air supply to offset the *pull* of the seal passing by the nozzle. Damn, I need a life if that is on my mind...

CERAMICSEAL

Thanks 63. I've been wrong once or twice in life.:D

Habeeb

Well Ceramicseal, what where you thinking when you got that tatoo of a rotor on your forehead, I could understand a little rotor on your ankle, inconspicious, but a full pic of the R9 rotor.. come on now.. although the color they used for the *third oil seal* does match your eyes.