daisuke

My boss called my attention to this piece of news, they are probably at least 5 years out as far as production goes, but I think we can kiss the internal combustion engine goodbye. With these batts the tesla has a 2000 mile range (and is still fast as ****).

The article doesn't mention it, but the batteries would not cost much more to produce, and may in fact even cost less. (that is according to my boss who knows what he's talking about when it comes to this stuff)

http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...re-010908.html

Nubo

Yeah, it really is amazing potential. But, check out teslamotors.com, the car is now in production. The days of gasoline cars are numbered and in 40 years, kids will wonder in amazement at how we could ever put up with all the crap associated with gasoline-powered automobiles.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

"you mean didnt have instantaneous torque? how is that any fun?"

even if its cheap to produce, they will still be expensive as all hell for the next 5 years after they hit the market.

RX8-Frontier

Right...

end of the internal combustion engine?? I seriously doubt it. Not with anything that's battery powered.

Why's that?? Because the electricity to run still has to come from somewhere, and the greenies will be pissed if the internal combustion engine is replaced with more power plants...

something else is gonna' have to come along to replace the internal combustion engine. Anything that takes electricity ain't gonna' be it.

Nubo

The electric advantage is that pollution control measures can be far more effective and energy efficiency can be far greater, when applied to a large generating station as opposed to millions of individual combustion engines. Even electric plants using fossil fuels are far better choices for vehicle propulsion because of these factors. That is, producing the energy for the electric car will result in far less emmissions.

Of course, energy has to come from somewhere. The second advantage of electricity is that it can be produced with any number of sources. As alternative energy sources are developed, they can all be delivered via the electric grid. Wind, solar, geothermal, biomass, etc.. Can all be added to the grid and used to power the same vehicles. As our energy sources become greener, so do electric cars. Thus the change can happen gradually and we're not tied into any one delivery infrastructure.

RX8-Frontier

Show me the battery system that can power an 18-wheeler, and then I'll say the internal combustion engine is dead.

'Til then, long live oil!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Cool batteries indeed! I wanted a Tesla the day I saw it - just need to win the lottery.

^ My buddy drives a chip truck, and fully loaded he is at 104,000 lbs. More than 18 wheels on the ground mind - no electric battery can move that!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Thats like old old news, I saw it months ago (the same day as the press I guess)

sure it sounds good, but cost will be one thing, second thing is that with so much energy store in a box, safety could be an issue, another issue would be the technology itself, is it durable ? is it even worth while ?

Lithium-Ion will stay for at least another 10 yrs.

daisuke

I don't see why there would be a safety issue, every single time anyone ever mentions some form of new propulsion or energy storage, the alarmists always say that "it's too dangerous". Air powered cars... the compressed air tanks will explode. Hydrogen... even worse, not only under pressure but flammable too. Fuel cells... same argument. They will find a way to make the batteries safe, you can count on that.

Is it worthwhile??? I won't even bother to retort on that one.

Even the tesla with it's 200 mile range is still only a commuter car since it can't take road trips, we're too used to the conveniece of filling up in 3 minutes with gas, so having to charge for hours before continuing a 600 mile trip is completely unacceptable. The great thing about this is that now the car has more endurance than the driver, and that's the one thing that suddenly makes full electric cars viable.

I actually think that 18 wheelers could run on batteries. I mean look at WWII submarines, the diesel electric system was built into them and the later war boats could run at 5 knots underwater for 3 days without having to recharge, and that was 60 years ago. The amount of regenerative breaking you could get out of 18 wheels when going down a grade would be truly massive since you have to go so slow anyway. Might have to be a hybrid system, but damn

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i want the stock!
OD

dillsrotary

Alot of mislead opinions here on battery power. Energy is energy, batteries power alot of foreign built sub's (chinese are all electric, diesel is just the charging source.) Outside of the the larger air vehicles nearly all u.s. military UAV's are battery powered, all ocean unmanned vehicles are battery powered, nearly all land unmanned vehicles are battery powered. Every elevator you enter has plenty of power. Major government buildings have battery backups that can power the entire building for 30 mins (Thats ALOT more power than you think it is.) The next generation aircraft carrier will launch via electromagnetic force from charged batteries. The next gen destroyer will fired projectiles via electromagnetic force via charged batteries. The further refinement of nano carbon tube tech within lithium batteries will only further their development.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I am serious about wanting stock!
OD

Razz1

Sorry OD I already bought up the remaining shares.

Nubo

I had some reservations initially. They have a whitepaper on just the battery safety issue, and have passed all safety crash tests. The batteries are grouped, bladed and isolated physically and electrically to prevent failure of any individual cell from cascading. And we all know that gasoline is a tremendously concentrated energy source, flammable, and explosive.

No doubt, but don't discount the utility of a 200 mile range. It covers the VAST majority of car travel. Doesn't replace everything, but sure could replace a significant percentage of cars on the road with no hassle. But yeah, I'd think 500 miles or so would represent the magic point to where it would be fully accepted as being viable for longer trips. That's a full day of driving, recharge at the hotel, and on your way the next day. I mean, I drove 2400 miles nonstop when I was young and stupid but I could have lived without it, really.

Engineering-wise, fitting batteries to something that large is actually an easier problem than a passenger car because space is not at such a premium, or weight. It's just a matter of scale. At the moment lithium packs are out of the question for that application due to economics but it's certainly not impossible to do.

Keep in mind this technology is in its infancy. Gasoline cars really sucked 100 years ago. In fact, electrics outsold gasoline cars until about 1913. 100 years of engineering made quite a difference for gasoline cars! Now that battery tech is moving forward, that same kind of worldwide evolution and improvement will hopefully take place for electrics.

Beltaine

It really doesn't matter what the "next" energy source to power our vehicles is.

If it's Ethanol, the price of corn skyrockets, and we're paying out the *** for ethanol.

If it's plug in electric, the power companies jack up the price per kw/h and we pay out the *** for electricity.

If it's hydrogen, used french fry oil, melted down Xbox's, grass clippings, or compressed air; it will be done in such a way that the price of this "cheap new fuel" skyrockets and we're all back in the same boat we're in now.

HiTMaNN

We don't know until we try.... I think a lot of these companies are doing it because of the impact it will have the environment if we take a lot of stress off of gas sales it will help save the environment. Plus they will make the big bucks if there idea ends up working out.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

the problem really isnt the price, its the limited supply of oil we have.

sunlight and wind, we have plenty of that.

oh, and of course battery powered 18 wheelers could exist. its just silly to not think so. energy is energy, and motors are motors. we dont put r/c car motors in the rx8, just like we dont put electric fan motors in a truck.

RX8-Frontier

Sure, they *could* exist. But a trucker doesn't want to have half his load in batteries to run the dyam thing. They make money from hauling CARGO... Until they make batteries that are light enough (there aren't any, yet) to not take up their CARGO space, then it's completely unrealistic. Regardless of how much power they can put out, or for how long. Sorry; ain't happenin.

Nubo

More accurately, they make money by getting paid more to haul cargo than it costs them to haul it.

At some point along the cost curve, diesel becomes so expensive that any cargo load represents a loss. At some point along the cost curve, battery electric becomes cheap enough so that a load, even at some reduced carrying capacity, becomes profitable. With current Tesla type capacity, the battery pack represents about 1/3 of the gross weight. That does leave room for cargo, just as it leaves room for a car and passengers in the roadster. Lighter is better, of course. and 25,000 lb of lithium batteries is not realistic cost-wise. But if the nanowire tech pans out, that reduces to an equivalent 2500 lb. That's chickenshit for a vehicle with 80,000 lb gross weight.

We agree it isn't feasible today. The future is very much open.

SilentSpring

Your forgetting that if it runs on electric they won't need the anvil in the front. Those motors aren't light, and can weigh more then 4,000 lbs, depending on the model. Thats a lot of Li batteries.

Georgia8er

One thing I didn't see in this article is anything about recharge time and max output of the battery. If it holds twice the amount of energy that is fine, but what if it takes twice as long (or longer) to charge it? Then if it can't output enough amperage for an electric car it is a moot point.

the technology looks very useful, though. And I'm not saying it isn't feasible, just that I'd like to know more about the operational limits of it.

Razz1

If you want to take the stress off gas prices you put a tax so high on SUV's and gas gusslers that people won't buy them.

What the hell is the use of an SUV?

They all drive them to work alone and that more than 80% of their usage.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

gah, i see ford f-350 super mega heavy duties run around making grocery runs. huge rims and street tires.

what is the point of that? they can barely maneuver in a parking lot. im sure they are the reason for the multiple dents in my car.

daisuke

I hate those things, I always feel like the dualies are going to clip me as I drive by.

SUVs are a sin really, just a way of saying "look I have a small dick and need to lift my not-truck 20 inches to make up for it", at least our ***** enlargers can take a corner... and go fast... and have a unique engine... and look sweet... Hell even F-350s have a useful purpose if you're going to work them (diesel engine only please). It's not like ANY escalade owner is going to take his Semi Useful Vehicle off-road, god forbid he might scratch up the pearl white paint and his chromed 22 inch spinner rims with half inch profile tires . Toyota Land Cruiser? Range Rover? Lada Niva? NOW I'm listening

New2u

Most of problems with batteries to power cars really is the fact that a 200 mile range really isn't much. Factor in if one of those batteries fails, you have the others trying to make up for said power loss and actually shitting on that 200 miles. The new battery system that was designed really could help that, i mean if someone was like well this car can go 2k miles before it needs to be plugged in... BAM! that's ******* nice. But for a price tag of 100k for a car that can only go 200 miles, **** that.

Now if they created a car that not only could get lets give it a moderate 1000 miles before it would need to be juiced up again (that being mileage from the new batteries that are being developed), but also put micro solar panels on it somewhere to help it from needing to be plugged in all the time. Well now that's a somewhat decent idea.

Is the combustion engine going to go away anytime soon? that's a hard one. I would say not within the next 10-20 years. But you never know, technology is changing faster and faster every year. It's almost to the point where something comes out and maybe not even 3 months later it's already be outdated by a better more proficient product.

I don't think ethanol will ever become a full way of dealing with anything. The problem behind that is that if we use corn to make ethanol we have less to feed the livestock. If it takes more to feed the livestock, who do you think will see the price increase...? we will in the markets. It's already started doing that, that's why they have experts that are trying to get us away from that. It's not only NOT a viable solution, it's hurting us economically in the process. (My take on the whole ethanol thing)

I do believe hydrogen will be the next big thing, ya know once they get to the point where they can transport it and store it efficiently. So far the majority of places that have hydrogen powered cars are.. airports, because they can produce it on site and they don't have to transport it anywhere. And from what i understand from those tests, those transit vehicles get pretty decent milage.