How can we fix this problem if our VDI is not opening like you said?

take it to the dealer and have them dignose WHY it isnt. then have them clean/replace/repair whatever to make it work

you knowi just took a look at my graph froma few weeks ago at apple blossom festival. i didnt really look at it before because of the problem with the rpm pickup makes the lines all jaggedy and hard to read. but now reconsidering it- its quite clear that between 7k and 7.5k rpm the power dropsand is just dea level from then on- it looks like perhaps mine did not open either :eek: i need to get them to send me the raw data and then replot it with the viewer software....

As promised here's the dyno graphs from this weekend. This is w/ p flash and mods in my sig. As I had said from seeing the data from WDS, some trims were present and they work.

Enjoy!

Charlie Shatzen
Mazcare Inc

The 5 runs in between were from testing the Amemiya header that has since been removed.

I'd like to see you dyno the Feed Equal Length Runner Header instead :rolleyes:

Nice HP :)

I thought the A/C cuts out at 65% throttle for no more then 20 seconds. From what I read in the owners book it has nothing to do with the RPM.

Amemiya made 2hp/2lbft through stock cat, I'll gladly dyno the Feed header for you if you send it to me! How bout that for a sense of humor?

LOL - that was a good one :D How did it sound though? I'm looking for a deeper exhaust note...

I thought it was for a mere 5 seconds when the throttle reached 65% from the drive by wire system.

Almost no noticeable change in tone, I was really surprised too.

If you have anyway to monitor it see if the time is really 5 seconds.

Yes, I had the various acronyms confused as dannobre stated. Sorry.

CRH

Took my 8 to the dealership today to fix a small oil pan leak and wanted the latest and greatest flash.
Can someone please tell me what flash I have?
Invoice states the following:

File Name: SW-N3K7ED000
PCM Calibration Part Number: N3K7-18-881D

Thanks!

Looks like "N", I get my car back from the dealer today for a laundry list of things. I will provide my input about the new flash after I confirm that I have it.


edit-no it is not N the letter after the E is the flash level. this number above is wrong. zoom44

I am taking mine in tomorrow, most likely they will flash me too. My 8 seems to be lean and mean as it is comparing it to some conversations i have seen on here but no hard proof to back that up. Will the N flash change that or am I paranoid. I am quite happy with the car like it is and certaintly do not want to lose power cause then I will just be insane! Thanks for any advice, *I am willing to refuse the flash and just lose the warranty, turbo is coming soon for me anyways.

Chris

If you are planning to get a turbo soon you might want to hold off on the flash. I am currently installing the Greddy turbo on my 8 which has the N flash but I will have to have the emanage retuned as it is preset to work with M. Not a huge deal, but you'll have to find a tuner or pay a shop.

I really liked the N compared to the M, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make after the turbo is on. I think it will still change some things at least, such as the flow of the oil metering pump.

there has been some talk about how this P flash affects the A/C. Well I did something interesting today. I just removed the A/C fuse from the box and my idle went from a little rough to smooooth! And no i never had the A/C turned on. Heck didnt even have the fan turned on. Seemed to have a tad bit for pep also. Hmmmm maybe this P flash has something.
Olddragger

I picked up my car from the dealer today after warranty work and the P flash. Strangely enough, I feel that my car is slightly more responsive in the low to midrange, and the typical rattle I heard at 6000-6250 (3rd intake port, right?) is now happening at 7000??

I know that there is one more valve that opens at 7250, but I never heard it before. And I always heard the 6250, but now nothing. Ideas?

After reading through this thread, it seems that there is some confusion about this A/C thing. If I understand correctly, the P flash changes the A/C shutoff from 5500rpm to 7000rpm. At 5500 rpm, this might explain the complaint about weak A/C if you tend to rev relatively high often enough...so changing to 7000 would keep the compressor running to keep the flow of cold air, but does this change the WOT shutoff? So, the quote above from rxeightr is actually correct, in that this change in the shutoff (although not specific in his quote) will in fact help the A/C cycling problem of A?C output going from cold to hot.

Also, Charles....your in Detroit right? Where do you go to get your car dynoed? I live in Ann Arbor. I was thinking about all of these Mods that people are installing, and I have to wonder if the reflashes have a detrimental effect on performance from said Mods. The REVi Intake R&D may have been performed on a car with say M flash, when my car is then relfashed to N or P, is it going to be the same, better, or worse...I guess there is no way to tell until you have it done. I will assume that having an intake is better than no intake in most instances, but will the increase you might have on "M", which the intake was designed around, produce the same output or better on "N".

I would like to get a solid baseline for an 04 8, all stock with P flash and compare to anyone that dynoed their car before mods on an older flash.

Charles, PM me if you would so I can setup a dyno run at a good place.

Thanks

my dealer would not flash my car to n nor would he even do p. They say they cant recreate my problems with bad cooling, and lack of power.....

What can i do

Here's what I did today; I switched my 5W20 out for 20W50, both from Quaker State. The 20W50 eliminated the noise above 7K rpm's but the power drop-off was still there, and then some(from the thicker oil I presume). I used to run steady 13.7's before the trouble, then 14.0's with the power drop over 7K. Tonight I ran a measly 14.4. The run was slower from start to finish so I am sure the oil viscosity was causing the G-Tech measured 15 h.p. loss. The greater point is that the engine runs much quieter, all around, with the thicker oil in it. I don't plan on keeping the 20W50 in the pan but now I see there is a direct relationship between the noise above 7K and the lubrication system. Just as Mazda stated in their MSP04 list of concerns. Next comes the use of pre-mix in the tank while swapping back to the use of 5W20. If the pre-mix shows improvement of the measurable variety, then I will make some passes with the nitrous in use, as well. If both conditions show gains while using pre-mix, then my conclusion will be that there is a metering oil pump problem with my engine that is not showing a CEL.

In the meantime, I will visit my mechanic and see if he will consider switching me back to the m flash. I will also attempt to contact Mazda for a little conversation on the matter as I have an idea for them.

Here's a question I thought of tonight; Is Mazda's behavior regarding this latest "loss of power" issue mirroring their behavior when it was first discovered that the U.S. versions of the RX-8 didn't actually have 255 h.p.? When they had to down rate the h.p. to 238 they made various offers to placate their customers, including a buy-back offer. Why are they not being equally pro-active and seriously following up on these concerns of ours? I guess I'll find out over the next few weeks.

I am thinking that if we could somehow overlay the low to midrange driveability of the N/P maps with the top-end power of the M maps we could have the best of both worlds and one helluva ride.

BTW, my mechanic told me that the P flash was to also address the "throttle hesitation" issue by altering the injector duty cycle, somehow. To that extent, they got it right. Very crisp response and my exhaust note crackles like it is supposed to.

CRH

How and where is the MOP? How much would it cost to install?

Perhaps Charles needs to buy one from RB.

I was just on the RB website and I am thinking along the same lines as you, Razz. If the MOP mod is for boosted engines perhaps I have hit the sealing limits of the factory MOP piston settings with my mods and, especially, the nitrous. The weird thing is that I knew nothing of the MOP's functions until I began reading Mazda's MSP04 bulletin so they have some knowledge of this matter, too. The thing is that there are people who don't have mods on their cars who are also experincing the problem. I would hate to needlessly spend $275 to fix something that Mazda cures with a PCM remapping.

The MOP is located on the passenger side of the engine and is somewhat hidden by the thermostat housing. To remove it requires removal of the battery and tray.

CRH

My mechanic is replacing the MOP on cars that come in with a CEL. I'll get the code tonight when I go see him. It is basically the same fix that RB has done. It is a larger bored out cylinder and piston to pump more oil under high loads.

Maybe we should start a thread about the MOP and the 7K loss - so we can leave the P-Flash thread un-polluted.. Just a thought as I type away... :rolleyes:

Does Mazda need to lift the hood to flash the PCM, or do they use the port in the passenger compartment?

I don't want to void my warranty by having the REVi, so if they don't need to look under the hood, so much the better.

Thanks.

I have a load of mods on my car and my dealer has never hassled me about them. The issue of warranty voidance has been discussed much in the past and the Magnusson-Moss Act clarifies things.

In order to re-flash the PCM the tech will use the OBDII port under the steering wheel. Either way, you'll be fine.

Nem, to the extent that you suggest the power loss and P flash issues should remain exclusive it also seems to me that they may be related in some way. It is becoming a firmer belief of mine that Mazda engineers are attempting to placate a number of different types of RX-8 enthusiasts. First, we have the true noobs who have no idea of the history the rotary and the fact that we must be cautious of flooding issues, among other things. Then we have the mild enthusiasts who prefer performance but still complain about fuel economy. Then we have people, like myself, who are pushing the limits of the Renesis and discovering the inherent weaknesses that crop up at certain levels of power. That MOP replacement you mention is exactly why I am cautious about spending $275 on the Racing Beat mod when I may get it for free from my dealer/Mazda. I can only hope that Mazda shows themselves to be open to input and advice from the different levels of enthusiasts out here and we can all work together to fully exploit the performance potential of the RX-8 while still satisfying certain federal regs.

CRH

that number is not a RX8 number. ask them to clarify

I noticed the numbers are the same as per Mazda Service Bulletin No. 01/007/05 issued 2/2/2005 except the "C" has been changed to "D" in both the file name and part number.
Does this mean I have the "P" flash?
I own an '05 M/T RX-8.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...07-05-1432.pdf

Does anyone have the TSB number for the P-Flash? If you have it in the .pdf format that would be great. I cant find it on the Rosenthal Mazda page that is sticky'd. OR if you know where the TSB can be found online that might work also. It always helps if i have the TSB's that i am going in for and the work i want done. Thanks!

I'm still confused about how (or if) the dealer shows the flash version on the invoice, as I recently requested "the most recent PCM calibration" when I had my car in, and when I picked up the car, I was told they did reflash it. (the dealer seemed to have no reservations about updating my car)

The invoice shows a N3H6-18-881A (6-sp. trans.) which I think is the number listed on the Feb. 2005 TSB. (01-008/05 "Engine No Start, Lack of Power...") I haven't really noticed a difference in the performance of the car, at least a difference I can really be certain about.

ok need help
 

im curious i need someone with navi and the p flash. i think i found a way to find out what flash u have by going through a back door on the naviagation,

first you have to go into set up menu.
2nd go to version and makesure it tells what version you are running.
now go The back door. which is Up-up-up- down-down-down-up up .
after you do this it should take you to screen you have not seen before.
Once you ar ein the scene go to software and click on teh button to enter. once you enter go all teh way left to teh last option and click on it. it should say what ecu flash you have.

It says main ecu M

mine says-

main cpu (m) ver. 04.06.2002.9
_________________________________
main cpu (F) ver u9.95 2003

not sure this will help....

also while i was in there, i hit cold start, and it restarted the nav unit and then when it rebooted it now thinks im in chicago!! how do i get it to realize im in arizona? hope it notices on its own...

When the ticket is invoiced and filed with the warranty dept. the dealer uses a "part number main cause". You may find this silly but the people that pay the claims really don't care what level the car is on so the dealer uses the same PCM part number every time. If you really want to know what flash level you are on you would need to know what level the WDS at the dealership was on the day you went in.

i really want this flash doneeeeee

The part number on the AT "P" flash which I watched the tech install today is :

N3Z1-18881-P

This was done under warranty and in accordance with MSP04 (MAZDA Special Program) for VINs built prior to 03.12.2004 within a specific VIN range... which my car falls in.

As Snap-On states .... the invoice documentaion only specifically addresses the MSP04 program for warranty re-imbursement.

Seeing that your 2004 A/T was updated to N3Z1-18-881-"P" and my 2005 M/T was updated to N3K7-18-881-"D", I believe the two model years have different flash levels.
2004 RX-8s are up to level "P" and 2005 RX-8s are up to level "D".

Check Mazda service bulletin 01-007/05 issued 2/2/2005 and you will see there are different PCM calibration part numbers for each different model year and transmission version. Also notice the only thing changed in the PCM calibration part numbers are the last letter. "N" to "P" for 2004 models and "C" to "D" for 2005 models.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...07-05-1432.pdf

What do you think? Am I way of base?

Mine does not say "ecu" ???

As posted by snap-on:

When the ticket is invoiced and filed with the warranty dept. the dealer uses a "part number main cause"

Thanks snap-on. I think I'll just not worry about it, it seems to be running at least as well as it did before the reflash.

Nope ... I'd say you you've got it figured out. European, Aussie, JDM, etc. all have different part numbers and flash levels too.

see i actually went loking for that bulletin thru my posts. that bulletin i thought was the one that was recinded because of programming errors. I wondered if that code on your post may be a 2005 cali flash etc. but i thought they didnt actually go to that file numbering system. i will look more.

p flash
 

Got my 8 reprogram today campaign ssp61, was with the mecanic when he did it and saw on is screen part #n3z1-18-88P. Will try it this weekend and see if mpg will change on a 4 hrs trip and will post results.

Hi everyone, newbie here. I just took my RX-8 in for squeaky brakes and using your collective expert advice to complain about stalling in order to get the PCM flashed, they did so. Based on the VIN, I have an April 2004 model that came with the "M" flash. I think I can answer one of the questions in this thread. What does the new flash do? I was told by the service manager that the new flash increases oil injection into the chamber and that I would have to check my oil level more often. This supposedly will help alleviate the stalling issue some people have experienced. I was also told this may improve gas mileage. I will run through a couple tanks and post an update (I have been averaging right at 15 mpg with 90/10 city/highway driving). I live in Las Vegas so cold weather isn't an issue here. The 64k question is though, what flash version did I receive? (the service manager didn't know and it wasn't on the invoice. She said they had to have a Mazda engineer come out to Vegas AND download information from Japan in order to flash the RX-8's that were awaiting service at my dealership).

M flash did that but not N or P. the person is wrong. second someone there should be able to tell you what flash you are at now. but since they seem to have admitted not knowing how to update their wds with out help from a engineer from japan( the wds is used by the whole ford family- the dealer next door should be able to show them. hell i dont even work for a dealership and i suck at most things it people do everyday and I COULD PRGRAM THE WDS AND DO A FLASH) maybe thye really dont have any clue. if that is really tru run to another dealer and never go back. except you're in vegas and i would swear every dealer there is the same- the worst of the worst in the nation.

Wow - WDS is so simple.... It's a touch screen for G's sake.

Today after getting a check engine light I took mine in to get it fixed. Turned out to be a defective gas cap they had to replace.

Anyway back to the thread. I had "P" done while I was there. I don't notice a diffrence in anything. I went from "M" to "P" and drives/feels exactly the same. After reading what some people wrote I was expecting some diffrence. Oh well at least I got up to date :)

Here's a strange thing; I had my PCM re-flashed last week. A decision on part of my mechanic after I complained about the noise and loss of power issue. I thought I still had the problem(s) a few days after getting back from the dealer so I did a little detective work of my own. I took the battery, cover, and tray out and measured the values and voltages at the APV motor and metering pump. I found what I thought to be insufficient voltage supply to the metering oil pump so I figured I would have my mechanic re-measure it to confirm. After I put the battery back in and reset the e-shaft profile, a couple days later I measured an easy 13.9@101 mph. This puts me right back to where I was before all of these problems. Plus, the engine sounded as smooth as a Swiss watch all the way to redline. Next comes a couple of nitrous passes to be sure everything is cool. I'll also try a number of different power levels to see which works best.

CRH

i got the p flash yesterday. im not sure what flash im coming from, but the p flash definitely feels a little stronger, i cant necessarily say its more HP, but it feels like the engine is a bit more willing to spool up when running on the freeway.

but i really hope the awful knocking sound is gone for good, but i doubt it.

ok, i'm a COMPLETE newbie as far as the flashes go.

first off, i've looked all over this thread to find out what the hell an M flash does vs a P flash. what the heck is a Pflash? what does it do? i finally noticed on this page it supposidly makes for more power or whatever. but i have a good feeling the guys at my mazda dealership are idiots and would have no clue whether it was flashed or not.

when i bought it, i asked if it had been flashed. the dealer said "oh i'm sure blagity blagity that it has blagity blagity..." but i really don't even know that he knew at all what i was talkin about.

i have a deep concern as to why ALL the Mazda dealerships aren't sending out fliers and phone calls to their Rx8 buyers telling them to COME IN and GET YOUR CAR FLAHSED. if they're spending money to fix our computers, then why do i have to go to the dang forums to find out my car is screwed up?

so, to restate my questions. What is a p-flash? How do i KNOW that they've P-flashed my car? SHOULD I pflash it? Why isn't Mazda obligated to send out the 411 on the behalf of their customers that have already spent 20k+ on their cars?

because your car isnt screwed up. go read the stickies about flashes.

k. thanx. already i'm starting to feel better!