ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

what, the MTBE-to-ethanol conversion?

brillo

it will likely go down slighty as ethanol does not contain as much energy as gasoline.

alcimedes

expect a drop of about 5% - 10%.

rotarygod

My Honda is the single most consistent vehicle I've ever owned when it comes to gas mileage. It'll even consistently get worse mileage if I use Shell vs anyone else. So far with the new formulations I haven't seen any change at all. I've expected it to go down though.

toxin440

I pulled up to a Valero the other day b/c i needed gas, and saw their sign "our gas containes 10% ethanol" I got in my car and drove away with an empty tank. Call me a bastard but I'm not going to pay 3 bucks a gallon and get 90% of what i paid for.

Georgia8er

It shouldn't be a noticeable decrease with just 10% ethanol, but I'm like Toxin440, don't charge me the same or more when I'm getting less.

I seemed to get 2 mpg less on the fuel in the winter time in Georgia. Not sure if it's just the weather or if we actually have a winter blend (oxygenated).

therm8

Any links about this conversion? I've not been monitoring the news lately and know nothing of it. Is this universal or a limited applicability thing?

What about alcohol and metered oil compatibility? I've heard/read that ethanol and dino oil don't mix well.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Congress moved to replace the chemical MTBE with ethanol and May 5th is the deadline. There are some roaming gas shortages due to stations having to shut down their tank to clean them of any water contamination prior to making the switch, but you can usually just drive to another local station. It's been in the news the last several days.

OontzTonic

Ethanol is a great fuel, very high octane and it'll clean your fuel system. We've always had ethanol in my area so this switch didn't effect me.

It does how lower energy content, but the drop in fuel mileage is not as much as you would think. The reason being as ethanol has a different burn rate than gasoline and also creates more exhaust gas since the oxygen seperates during combustion. It has been shown to make more torque later in the combustion cycle.

If you run WOT alot, then it will really drop your fuel mileage though. If you ran pure ethanol (118 octane BTW), you'd need to inject 30%-40% more fuel to keep it rich. I plan on running pure ethanol in my track car as I could run high compression and boost, since the high octane can support about 19:1 compression.

SilverStreak

I can understand , the lower production of oil due to instability in oil regions lower production due to the hurricanes, and higher prices due to more consumption (ie, China) that is all free market economics. What I have the problem with ethanol is that Congress mandates getting rid of MTBE, but still needing clean burning gas we get ethanol (granted it is renewable and lowers overall dependence on oil). Ethanol can't be blended in the pipeline spec gas, we don't have adequate transportation to get it where needed (the spot shortages), likely worse mileage AND higher costs. WHY? Because MTBE gets into groundwater (it is a common contaminant now) so Congress PROTECTS us by having it removed from fuel BEFORE there is a good infrastructure to use ethanol. BOTTOM LINE, we as consumers get to pay more for ethanol and get worse mileage BECAUSE the oil companies can't control leaks from their stations. While, at the same time the oil companies continue to make record profits. It reminds me of the early 70s when Congress mandated cleaner emission cars BEFORE mandating better mileage costing the consumer as the mileage got worse initially, hmmm, who made the profit then??? Ethanol may be better for us in the long run but in typical fashion the way we get there is bass ackward.

Rotarygod may be on to something with the diesel-electric idea but watch your back, there is probably a semi filled with ethanol out to get you to protect Big Oil.

NotAPreppie

In Illinois, we've been using ethanol as a replacement oxygenator for MTBE for at least five years now. No serious, wide-spread ill-effects for it.

Here's what I wrote on a Passat forum in response to using E85 in a Passat (feel free to pick it apart or call me an idiot)...

The sad thing about ethanol is this: with current technology, it takes about as much energy to create a given quantity of ethanol as that quanitity ethanol itself provides. So, best case scenerio, we break-even. Question: How often do we see a "best case scenerio"? ( http://zfacts.com/p/60.html )

The only thing keeping the ethanol-as-a-primary-energy-source idea going right now are the farm subsidies pushed through congress by the environmental and farm lobbies (never underestimate the power of ADM).

Hopefully, this will change as the technology progresses.

Currently, ethanol is used in regulard gasoline as a replacement for MTBE, which has found to produce chemicals more harmful than those produced by ethanol. Interestingly, MTBE is used as a replacement octane booster for lead. ( http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm )

Ethanol, however, isn't not without it's faults. Remember, burning hydrocarbons produces, in a perfect laboratory reaction, CO2 and gasseous H2O; both of which are green-house gasses. Combine that with the fact that internal combustion engines are not laboratories and the addition of other chemicals to the mix (detergents, octane enhancers, etc) and we still get toxic and greenhouse emissions. Just less per mile than with MTBE-oxygenated gasoline. ( http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fue...el/white99.pdf )

Take any of this with a grain of salt and consider the sources.

Edit: I should disclaimer all of this by saying that I'm probably single-handedly supporting one OPEC nation for a day every time I drive my RX-8 to work and back. :p