Genom

Saturday I was out and about in my car practicing some slalom cones with a couple of guys from the boards. After doing this for about an hour or so, I suddenly noticed a sharp burning electronics smell (AC was running at the time since it was a warm day). Thought it was just the tires but smell was wrong.

Afterwards the car felt a little odd, but I couldnt pin it down. Filled the tank, then went on my way. Next day I noticed that the car felt very underpowered at low RPM's and even high up it felt a little odd. Doing 3rd gear HP runs with my G-tech showed me all of 132HP. I have dynoed the car (in limp mode) at 181HP before, so even taking into the account the g-tech differences thats pretty big. I've put on about 150 miles since then and the car is just dog slow. 0-60 with a moderate launch is running about 11 seconds. I'm gonna be taking it into the dealer today or tomorrow, but I was wondeing if any of the electronicly talented members here have suggestions on stuff to look at beforehand.

Whats it feel like if the car burns out it's ignition coils? Thats about the only thing I can think of electronically, and I am sure it would throw a CEL, yet I dont have ANY CEL's at all showing up.

Help?

ranger4277

I hope it isn't the coils. Are/were you running CZ 1?

Genom

Ran it for a month or so on the L flash with no problems. It's out now. Problem is much worse with it in.

red_rx8_red_int

Sounds like a factory defect. Should be covered under warranty.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Coils, most likely.

They wont throw a CEL unless you fry both on one rotor.

They are only $60 or so each, so pick up a couple.

Throw a timing light on each plug wire to verify. If the leading are dead but the trailing are OK (or some other combination), swap the good coils the the leading plugs and you will be fine (except for the crappy idle) until you can get new ones.
From left to right it is L1, T1, L2, T2.

When they fry, the top near the connector melts, bulges out and looks like this:

Genom

Thanks Mazdamaniac. I'll now read up on how to use a timing light and locate where the coils are and try that out. Pardon me for asking since I dont know what a good coil looks like, but are you referring to the burnt looking area at the base of the round tube or the little "lip" at the base of the square connector?

Still gonna take to the dealer since I am dead broke and would rather not lay out the cash :D

But, where can I get the coils from? Any chance of it being a local shop?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The "swollen" part is highlighted. It is at the base of the plug connector. That part is normally flat.

The coils are on the driver's side of the motor behind the ABS HU.
Just follow the plug wires.

You can only get the coils from Mazda.

You can probably convince them that it is a warranty issue, but make sure there are no signs of the CZ box first. It usually takes 2 or 3 days for them to get the coils since it isn't an item they keep around.

It is likely that only two are fried, so unbolt the whole assembly (you need to remove the pipe that goes from the airbox to the throttle body first) and swap the two good coils to the L1 and L2 positions (coils 1 and 3). You can drive around forever that way, but your emissions and idle may suffer a bit.

Genom

Gotit. I wanted to be sure that was it since it just looked like a plastic safety tab. I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. I removed the stage1 but I need to track down the screws to hold the cover in place. Time to dig into the screw drawers!

I'll probably just wait and buy some replacements. Especially since I have a feeling it wont be the last time :/

Maurice, I think the latest tuning map might need some more work...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

More detail:

Genom

I just took a look at the coils and indeed. #3 is seriously burnt and #1 looks vaguely burnt. If it shows very minor melting it's probably toast as well right?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yes.
They don't live for more than a few seconds after they get that hot ususally, though they can go on to fail later if they don't immediately.
You are probably running completely on the trailing plugs which will idle OK, but there is no power.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

When you say it "out", do you mean out of the car or it was turned off?

Genom

Out now means completely removed. I tried running with it disabled and it felt a little better with it turned off. Removed it completely to see if that helped.

TitaniumRX8MD

So would it be wise if one is running Stage 1 and M flash to turn it off?

Genom

Not necesaraly (sp). I DID do cones for a solid hour in 90+ heat before it happened. I would just suggest if your running the latest map on the stage1 (with ignition control) dont abuse the car that way. After all I did drive for over a month (about 3000 miles), did 1 autocross event and a 500 mile day drive to and back Orlando with the L flash and upgraded stage1 combo and nothing happened.

epitrochoid

keep us posted on how the dealer responds...im afraid I'm gonna go to stage 1 coilpack hell too, but with all the **** i've been through with stage 1 so far, it damn well better be stage 1 heaven!

TitaniumRX8MD

Just for clarification I looked at my coils today and I couldn't see anything. Do you actually have to pull it apart to see if there is any damage or would be able to see it right away. And if you do have to take it apart, is it easy to do and any instructions?

snap-on

IGNITION COIL REMOVAL/INSTALLATION
Remove the engine cover. (See ENGINE COVER REMOVAL/INSTALLATION .)

Remove the battery cover.

Remove the negative battery cable.

Remove the air cleaner duct.

Remove coil packs

IGNITION COIL INSPECTION
Ignition Coil With Built-in Power Switch Inspection
Disconnect the ignition coil connector.

Measure the resistance between each terminal on the ignition coil connector.


If the measurement corresponds to the table, replace the ignition coil.


- +

A B ------infinity or continuity is abnormal
C B -------infinity or continuity is abnormal
C A ------(0) to several kilohm (continuity) is abnormal


The test is performed looking at the coil with the terminal end pointing UP

The terminals are C-B-A

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Right where the base of the connector plug is on each coil, you will see "bubbling" or "eruption" like blistering of the plastic.
Look closely at the picture I posted.

Also, follow the information Snap-On posted above.

TitaniumRX8MD

Thanks again guys, I'm just not that mechanically savvy plus I don't have the right tools to check the resistance in the coils. Besides what genom has stated in previous threads, are there any other tip offs that something maybe wrong with the coils?

snap-on

With no tools you may need to see the Snap-on man..

Only way to test is with a multimeter.

Or buying some new coils

Genom

If you cant see anything different on any of the coils from looking at them, then I dont think there is a problem. It was pretty easy to spot the burnt ones since it isnt smooth.

BTW, spoke to Maurice about it today and he's paying to have my unit shipped back to him so he can check the outputs fromt eh stage1. There's also some cool stuff coming pretty soon he mentioned to me that I think a lot of people will go nuts about :D

Well, at least I did :D

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You mean like this:p

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=27754

Genom

Heh. Yeah, that. So I missed a post :D