MNAO Official Stance on L Flash
03-24-2004, 06:05 PM
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MNAO Official Stance on L Flash
After two failed attempts at two dealers, I wrote Mazda an Email:
I own an RX-8 that was built before the newest PCM calibrations was available (Calibration 'L'). I've heard very good things from many other owners about the reflash, and I'd like to get it myself. I've visited two dealerships in my area, but both of them have either denied the flash existed or said it would not help in my situation. My car has expierenced poor gas mileage (11city, 13 highway) and seems to be buring more oil than it should. Can you help me out at all?
To which they replied:
In regards to your inquiry, the "Calibration L" you are referring to is to assist customers who had experienced problems with flooding on their engine. In no way does this process assist in improving the gas mileage or improving oil consumption.
If you are experiencing a problem with flooding in your engine, please contact your local Mazda dealership for diagnose. Once the vehicle has been diagnosed, they can contact Mazda's Technical Assistance if they need any further assistance.
However, the "Calibration L" is not meant to be used to improve the gas or oil consumption.
****
I think the "pretend I flooded it" line is all that's going to work for me. I even talked to a guy today at a dealer that was very straightforward with me mostly, and I said, "I want the L calibration" and he said he didn't know anything about it. I showed him the TSB, but he said it only addresses MIL's that occur after battery disconnect, as that's what the TSB says.
I own an RX-8 that was built before the newest PCM calibrations was available (Calibration 'L'). I've heard very good things from many other owners about the reflash, and I'd like to get it myself. I've visited two dealerships in my area, but both of them have either denied the flash existed or said it would not help in my situation. My car has expierenced poor gas mileage (11city, 13 highway) and seems to be buring more oil than it should. Can you help me out at all?
To which they replied:
In regards to your inquiry, the "Calibration L" you are referring to is to assist customers who had experienced problems with flooding on their engine. In no way does this process assist in improving the gas mileage or improving oil consumption.
If you are experiencing a problem with flooding in your engine, please contact your local Mazda dealership for diagnose. Once the vehicle has been diagnosed, they can contact Mazda's Technical Assistance if they need any further assistance.
However, the "Calibration L" is not meant to be used to improve the gas or oil consumption.
****
I think the "pretend I flooded it" line is all that's going to work for me. I even talked to a guy today at a dealer that was very straightforward with me mostly, and I said, "I want the L calibration" and he said he didn't know anything about it. I showed him the TSB, but he said it only addresses MIL's that occur after battery disconnect, as that's what the TSB says.
03-24-2004, 09:23 PM
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Wrong TSB...the hard-starting TSB is not dependent on MILs at all. I explained to my dealer that my wife stalled the car in the middle of our street and could not restart it. After some time and much smoke, I manged to deflood it using the de-choking procedure (amidst the laughter of my neighbor), and I'd like to get the PCM recalibrated to the latest software revision, which addresses this problem. I then gave the CSR the Bulletin number for reference. They reflashed me no problem, and also ordered the hotter plugs.
03-24-2004, 10:20 PM
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Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
03-24-2004, 11:28 PM
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haha
Interesting, that there's two TSB's that call for L flash to be applied. The flooding TSB directly calls for it, and the MIL tsb says to check for its presence.
Interesting, that there's two TSB's that call for L flash to be applied. The flooding TSB directly calls for it, and the MIL tsb says to check for its presence.
03-25-2004, 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
03-28-2004, 12:24 AM
#7
Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
03-28-2004, 01:11 AM
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what's so dumb about it? mazda officially covers it under warranty, and I get a loaner. if they can't fix it, i get a new motor, not my fault.
03-28-2004, 01:54 AM
#10
Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.
At this point, you will probably get the flash.
For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.
Just a thought.
03-28-2004, 11:05 AM
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Why not flood the car? What happens to it if you flood it?
1. You have just injected a lot of raw fuel into the engine. This will "wash down" the oil on the rotor housings, causing excess wear.
2. The excess fuel will destroy the spark plugs, whether they are the new "hotter" ones or not. If not replaced, it will make the car more prone to flooding.
3. Some of the excess fuel will get into the oil, and dilute it, which can lead to excess engine wear.
4. If the flood is not very carefully cleared (and almost never is), the excess fuel will be blown into the cat. This is not a "good thing"! It will destroy the cat. if it happens too much. Nobody knows how much is too much, BTW.
Read the "hard starting" TSB that recommends the "L" flash for more insight.
1. You have just injected a lot of raw fuel into the engine. This will "wash down" the oil on the rotor housings, causing excess wear.
2. The excess fuel will destroy the spark plugs, whether they are the new "hotter" ones or not. If not replaced, it will make the car more prone to flooding.
3. Some of the excess fuel will get into the oil, and dilute it, which can lead to excess engine wear.
4. If the flood is not very carefully cleared (and almost never is), the excess fuel will be blown into the cat. This is not a "good thing"! It will destroy the cat. if it happens too much. Nobody knows how much is too much, BTW.
Read the "hard starting" TSB that recommends the "L" flash for more insight.
03-28-2004, 11:16 AM
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Well, after a general phone call, two e-mails and two letters I finally got a call from Mazda.
I'm having a fuel consumption test/reading done. The dealership is keeping my car for the day. Mazda "authorized" a rental for me.
I go in on Wednesday, 3/31. Details to follow...
I'm having a fuel consumption test/reading done. The dealership is keeping my car for the day. Mazda "authorized" a rental for me.
I go in on Wednesday, 3/31. Details to follow...
03-28-2004, 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by MazdaManiac
Because, in a circuitous way, it does.
Because, in a circuitous way, it does.
cir·cu·i·tous
Pronunciation: (")s&r-'kyü-&-t&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: perhaps from Medieval Latin circuitosus, from Latin circuitus
1 : having a circular or winding course <a circuitous route>
2 : not being forthright or direct in language or action
- cir·cu·i·tous·ly adverb
- cir·cu·i·tous·ness noun
03-28-2004, 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by RevRaz
Since the L Flash doesn't fix fuel consumption, why do you even want it?
Since the L Flash doesn't fix fuel consumption, why do you even want it?
03-29-2004, 02:21 AM
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I don't understand why there is such resistance from Mazda to just flash the PCM anyway if you already have the car in there for something else to be worked on. Why do we have to have a flooding situation that leaves us stranded somewhere before they will update it? To me that is like having virus scan software loaded on your PC and not having access to the latest pattern files? Yeah......it still works, but it is not working at its best.
I assume it is a matter of hooking a connector up and sending the update to the PCM. I can't imagine there is a bunch of labor involved in getting this accomplished.
Luckily, I have not had any flooding problems with my car, and I have not been careful at all (have backed it out of the garage and shut it off multiple times with no problems restarting it). Even though I've been lucky, I am going to insist they do this when I take my car in for the recalls.
I assume it is a matter of hooking a connector up and sending the update to the PCM. I can't imagine there is a bunch of labor involved in getting this accomplished.
Luckily, I have not had any flooding problems with my car, and I have not been careful at all (have backed it out of the garage and shut it off multiple times with no problems restarting it). Even though I've been lucky, I am going to insist they do this when I take my car in for the recalls.
03-29-2004, 09:21 AM
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"Preventive" Flashing
I'm planning on teaching my wife to drive manual on this car (say prayers for me...and the car). I'm hoping they'll flash the PCM as a "preventive" measure, 'cause you know she's going to stall it....
AT
AT
03-29-2004, 11:30 AM
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Re: "Preventive" Flashing
Originally posted by Atacdad
you know she's going to stall it....
you know she's going to stall it....
Regards,
Gordon
03-31-2004, 04:52 PM
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I made my dealer do the flash, I just told the Mazda tech that if I was going to pay 30k for a car it should at least be kept up to date. He gave all these excuses that the car didn't need the flash. Finally I stared him straight in the eye nd said, "come on man, we both know how much friggin' oil this thing consumes, and if
03-31-2004, 04:55 PM
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sorry...
...I can reduce that by half, well that would be good." He looked at me and said "you know what, I'll order the plugs today, bring your car by tommorrow we'll do it." They even faked a "No Crank No Start to do it! That was cool.
...I can reduce that by half, well that would be good." He looked at me and said "you know what, I'll order the plugs today, bring your car by tommorrow we'll do it." They even faked a "No Crank No Start to do it! That was cool.
03-31-2004, 11:07 PM
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What vin #s are affected? I've checked out the info on the Rosenthal Finish Line site ..... can't find the vins .... I pick my 8 up in a couple of days .... thanks
Mazda should take a few lessons from Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus and tell their valuable customers about changes that need to be made to improve the cars. My wife and I have owned three Mazdas and soon a fourth .... great cars but finding a good dealership with good service has unfortunately been a challenge.
Mazda should take a few lessons from Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus and tell their valuable customers about changes that need to be made to improve the cars. My wife and I have owned three Mazdas and soon a fourth .... great cars but finding a good dealership with good service has unfortunately been a challenge.
04-05-2004, 02:03 AM
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I wouldn't have thought that dealers would be so reluctant to do the procedure. I took my auto in for the airbag recal, and simply asked that they do the flash. The service manager wasn't exactly sure what I meant, but nevertheless he wrote it down on the service order. I picked the car up, and the flash had be done. Why would they be so difficult?
Side note: I just got 22 mpg on 87 after the flash. Previous high was 21 before break-in, but the average has always been 18-19 with now 4500 miles on it. Normally I use 91 octane, but since they say it's ok to use 87 I did.
L flash or 87, who knows.
Side note: I just got 22 mpg on 87 after the flash. Previous high was 21 before break-in, but the average has always been 18-19 with now 4500 miles on it. Normally I use 91 octane, but since they say it's ok to use 87 I did.
L flash or 87, who knows.