Mazda's response to my spark knock
06-17-2004, 05:36 PM
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Mazda's response to my spark knock
I sent an email to Mazda today regarding the spark knock I have above 6K RPM. I always use 93 octane, change the oil regularly, and just had the M flash done, which according to the bulletin, cures spark knock above 6K. It did nothing except make my idle worse, so after writing Mazda, I recieved this response:
Their response was very fast and friendly, so I guess I'll wait and see what they're able to come up with, but I'm unimpressed that a car of this price and profile would have a pinging problem.
Dear Tony,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations regarding your
2004 Mazda RX-8. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
In regards to your comments, please understand I'm not technically
trained and therefore not in a position to diagnose or instruct on
repair procedures for your 2004 Mazda RX-8. For these matters, Mazda
relies on the factory-trained technicians at authorized Mazda
dealerships to diagnose and repair concerns that may arise with a
Mazda vehicle.
I understand these matters have been addressed by your dealer and the
M-Calibration on the PCM has been completed. I apologize that the
repair has not shown to fix your concern.
Each Mazda dealership has access to Mazda's Quality Assurance
Department via a technical hotline. This is offered to each dealership
should they need assistance from Mazda with diagnosing or repairing a
Mazda vehicle. Your Mazda dealer needs to be in communication with
Mazda's Quality Assurance so that a resolution to your concern can be
found.
I have documented your comments for our corporate record. I am also
forwarding our corporate file to the District Customer Support Manager,
the dealer management team, and Mazda's Quality Assurance.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. Please feel free to reply to this message with any further
questions or comments.
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations regarding your
2004 Mazda RX-8. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
In regards to your comments, please understand I'm not technically
trained and therefore not in a position to diagnose or instruct on
repair procedures for your 2004 Mazda RX-8. For these matters, Mazda
relies on the factory-trained technicians at authorized Mazda
dealerships to diagnose and repair concerns that may arise with a
Mazda vehicle.
I understand these matters have been addressed by your dealer and the
M-Calibration on the PCM has been completed. I apologize that the
repair has not shown to fix your concern.
Each Mazda dealership has access to Mazda's Quality Assurance
Department via a technical hotline. This is offered to each dealership
should they need assistance from Mazda with diagnosing or repairing a
Mazda vehicle. Your Mazda dealer needs to be in communication with
Mazda's Quality Assurance so that a resolution to your concern can be
found.
I have documented your comments for our corporate record. I am also
forwarding our corporate file to the District Customer Support Manager,
the dealer management team, and Mazda's Quality Assurance.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. Please feel free to reply to this message with any further
questions or comments.
06-17-2004, 09:04 PM
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What's thier e-mail? I have the same problem with rough idle, AC not blowing cold and **** poor MPG......ONLY 1400 miles of babying and breaking in on the ODO!!!!!! I still love this car, but the problems are starting to get old.
06-17-2004, 09:55 PM
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My 8 knocked once while using 89 octane but will knock frequently using 87 octane. I tried using 87 octane after the M flash but the engine still knocked. To be honest, I did not know the M flash was supposed to stop the knock. I just figured I would try 87 after the flash (wishful thinking)to see for myself if there was a difference.
06-17-2004, 10:27 PM
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Tony, have any other Fl RX-8 owners reported this problem? I'm wondering if it isn't a local fuel issue.......Do you always get your gas from the same company?
Gomez.
Gomez.
06-17-2004, 10:37 PM
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hmm.. I have used 87 a few times when the gas got up there (2.35/gal for the cheap stuff HURTS!)... and I had no problems whatsoever....
must be a conditional thing.,....
must be a conditional thing.,....
06-18-2004, 12:47 AM
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I presume you are using the 87 to save money? Admittedly, you do have a problem if Mazda say you can use 87 but the vehicle will not run on it (more on that later), but wouldn't it end up costing you the same amount for fuel per year if you used a higher octane, considering the fuel consumption improvements made by the M-flash? It would be an interesting experiment...
Back to the issue at hand, I would suggest doing the 20-time brake pedal push to clear the PCM memory, and drive normally to allow the PCM to relearn the characteristics of the fuel you are using.
You could also have a problem somewhere else in your car, that was not evident on the richer old flash, but shows up with the leaner M - like a contaminated MAF sensor, or a disconnected vacuum hose or something. I have heard of a few faulty ignition coils as well, a possibility?
Whichever way you look at it, the dealer needs to look at your car again. I hope they help you out...
Back to the issue at hand, I would suggest doing the 20-time brake pedal push to clear the PCM memory, and drive normally to allow the PCM to relearn the characteristics of the fuel you are using.
You could also have a problem somewhere else in your car, that was not evident on the richer old flash, but shows up with the leaner M - like a contaminated MAF sensor, or a disconnected vacuum hose or something. I have heard of a few faulty ignition coils as well, a possibility?
Whichever way you look at it, the dealer needs to look at your car again. I hope they help you out...
06-18-2004, 09:28 AM
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Nope, read the original post:
I work 50 miles from home, and have filled up with 93 everywhere: Mobil, Hess, Shell, Chevron, etc... Still have knock.
I think a lot of people have it and don't realize it's knock, because it sounds different in a rotary. Sort of like a bandsaw through a 2x4. "Bzzzzzzt!" Above 6K, then from 7500 to redline. There is a thread titled, "Buzzing under acceleration" that details several people with the noise.
I always use 93 octane
I think a lot of people have it and don't realize it's knock, because it sounds different in a rotary. Sort of like a bandsaw through a 2x4. "Bzzzzzzt!" Above 6K, then from 7500 to redline. There is a thread titled, "Buzzing under acceleration" that details several people with the noise.
06-18-2004, 10:35 AM
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I agree with MyRxBad. If you've had the "M" Flash and are still hearing knock the coils would be high on my suspect list. Make sure the dealer tests them... or better yet.... have them replaced and see if the problem goes away! Good luck!!
06-18-2004, 11:28 AM
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Wouldn't a lack of spark just make me pig rich? I know that'd destroy the cat, but I can't see how that'd make me knock....
Good idea though, I'll have it checked. I also reset my E-shaft position and cleared the KAM, so we'll see if that helps. I appreciate the ideas, guys. Keep 'em coming!
Good idea though, I'll have it checked. I also reset my E-shaft position and cleared the KAM, so we'll see if that helps. I appreciate the ideas, guys. Keep 'em coming!
06-18-2004, 12:17 PM
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Just went outside and visually inspected the coils. They seem fine, no blistering like Mazdamaniac showed in his pictures. Has anyone had a burned out coil that didn't blister the housing?
06-18-2004, 12:24 PM
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Pull the plugs. I'll bet dollars to donuts that they are carbon fouled from running rich all that time. I had Mazda replace my plugs with the hotter plugs to address this problem and clean plugs definitely made the knock and hesitation go away, but it did come back after a while. However, I am still running L. I think that Mazda believes that if you get M the plugs will clean themselves. This isn't really true. You would need to get the plugs well and truly heated up and probably run it a while to do that.
I would do this. I would pull the plugs and clean the electrodes with gasoline then put them back in. See if it helps. I am planning on doing this myself after I get bumped up to M.
Just a thought - H
I would do this. I would pull the plugs and clean the electrodes with gasoline then put them back in. See if it helps. I am planning on doing this myself after I get bumped up to M.
Just a thought - H
06-18-2004, 07:53 PM
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Wow. That's a great idea that I never would have thought of.
All the miles I put on before "L", I was puking fuel out of the tailpipes at idle, so I'd imagine the plugs are pretty fouled. Thanks a lot for the simple, yet great idea. I'll try this weekend.
All the miles I put on before "L", I was puking fuel out of the tailpipes at idle, so I'd imagine the plugs are pretty fouled. Thanks a lot for the simple, yet great idea. I'll try this weekend.
06-20-2004, 03:38 PM
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Well, I'm taking a break from my plug job to eat, but I wanted to post these pics for those of you who may also have this problem. Here's what my trailing plug looked like when I pulled it:
I plan on putting a thread in the DIY forum with detailed pictures on how to jack the car and access the plugs from underneath, but here's one for now.
I plan on putting a thread in the DIY forum with detailed pictures on how to jack the car and access the plugs from underneath, but here's one for now.
06-20-2004, 03:56 PM
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Great job Tony. Please let us know when you have the DIY completed. I want to check my plugs and possibly install hotter plugs. Does anyone have any suggestion as to which plugs to purchase? What are considered the "best," plugs for the rotary? I don't mind spending the money if it is worth it.
06-20-2004, 05:57 PM
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Here's a link to the DIY. I haven't taken the car out yet to see if it helped, but I'll let you know.
DIY Spark plug removal
DIY Spark plug removal
06-21-2004, 08:03 AM
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I was not able to thoroughly clean the plugs.
I removed the carbon on the top surfaces, but without a sandlblaster, I couldn't get down to the bulk of the gunk that was deep inside.
It DID make a noticeable difference in throttle response and bottom end. The car pulls smoother, and the loss of power at 7K is gone. However.... The knock is still there. I think new plugs would do the trick, because it is lessened after the partial cleaning of the plugs. Mazda needs to step up and replace plugs on cars with several thousand miles on them before L was released. I doubt they will, though.
Hey, I can dream, can't I?
I removed the carbon on the top surfaces, but without a sandlblaster, I couldn't get down to the bulk of the gunk that was deep inside.
It DID make a noticeable difference in throttle response and bottom end. The car pulls smoother, and the loss of power at 7K is gone. However.... The knock is still there. I think new plugs would do the trick, because it is lessened after the partial cleaning of the plugs. Mazda needs to step up and replace plugs on cars with several thousand miles on them before L was released. I doubt they will, though.
Hey, I can dream, can't I?
06-21-2004, 10:26 PM
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Hey Tony -
I'm glad that cleaning the plugs helped your running problems. Sorry that you couldn't get it back to new, but that is next to impossible when cleaning plugs. I haven't cleaned a set in years because they are usually fairly cheap to replace. That is not true of the RX 8 plugs. These plugs are frighteningly expensive, and trying to get new plugs out of the dealer isn't a bad idea. I was able to get hotter plugs installed for free, but I'm not sure that Mazda is still doing that. I think that they now believe that M is the repair that they are going to pay for and that's it. Still it's worth a shot. All the best - H
I'm glad that cleaning the plugs helped your running problems. Sorry that you couldn't get it back to new, but that is next to impossible when cleaning plugs. I haven't cleaned a set in years because they are usually fairly cheap to replace. That is not true of the RX 8 plugs. These plugs are frighteningly expensive, and trying to get new plugs out of the dealer isn't a bad idea. I was able to get hotter plugs installed for free, but I'm not sure that Mazda is still doing that. I think that they now believe that M is the repair that they are going to pay for and that's it. Still it's worth a shot. All the best - H
06-23-2004, 08:55 PM
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Well, I had the plugs replaced today. The spark knock is still there at high RPMs. 
The part that really gets me is that the head tech at my dealership owns an RX8. He has the pinging as well, and even HE hasn't been able to find out from Mazda how to fix it. That means no amount of bribing, cajoling or leaning on a service dept. will get it fixed, because no one knows how yet.
I guess it's wait and see time.
The part that really gets me is that the head tech at my dealership owns an RX8. He has the pinging as well, and even HE hasn't been able to find out from Mazda how to fix it. That means no amount of bribing, cajoling or leaning on a service dept. will get it fixed, because no one knows how yet.I guess it's wait and see time.
Please keep us up to date with any developments......... 
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