this may be a bit of topic but i thought i would throw this out fyi.my current ride is a factory tuned svt focus(go ahead and laugh if you must)it has dyno at fr wheels at 156hp.rated at 170hp from svt.(a few mods)anyway i drove a rx8 today that was the first car to arrive here.my impressions after driving this car only shifting at 4500 rpms was like oh my god,this car is so fast.it feels waaaaaaay more powerful than the svt and waaay more than my buddys 225hp tt.i also run a 10sec drag car and it takes alot to impress me.imo this car feels more powerfull than i excpected from 210whp.me personally would like that 210whp but after driving this car i will be smiling ear to ear and will be looking forward to my commute to work.now my svt feels like a big fat slug.

I'm still just not buying any of this ... the A/F's from the dyno are actually pretty decent numbers. Much higher than that is the point where rotaries start blowing seals at a high percentages. I don't get why Paul is saying rotaries like it on the lean side? Since when? Unless the side-port changes everything, which I doubt it would. Any hint of knock will still have the same effect on a side ports apex seals ... BOOM! Every rotary I've ever tuned or have seen tuned makes the most power at around 12.8 - 13.2 A/F. Most guys run richer than that for safety. This car isn't that far off from that, certainly not 20+ hp off from that. The one thing we don't know is what they're doing with the timing. Being a bit rich plus a very conservative timing map could make up the 20 hp.

You know, completely broken in FD's bone stock ran very similar A/F ratio's as the one posted with the dyno. Just a touch leaner, but not much. There was never this issue of magically appearing power with them, they made 220 - 225 at the wheels right off the showroom floor. Kevin Wyum ran a 13.3 in one with just a handful of miles on it.

I just don't buy any of it. I think there's a problem with the power, and I'm not very optimistic. That's a very very bad thing. Like Paul said, his business depends on the success of this car. So does mine. If this car fails, then so do my websites.

I have been doing some initial investigations towards positioning myself to purchase this automobile.

I have an '85 RX-7 GSL that has been a pleasure to own, and I held high hopes for the RX-8. The thought of owning one has been very entertaining... but yesterday the wind has gone from my sails with news of this power issue.

I am no expert, but the air fuel ratios do not look abnormal enough to me to account for a 20HP power loss.

All my plans for owning this vehicle have come to a standstill until I hear some announcement from Mazda that will put all this speculative chit chat to rest.

This has been very disheartening for me.

This is a naturally aspirated engine. Running it in the mid 13's will not blow apex seals, it will just make better power.

Mid 13's is not lean.

Yes, knock will break apex seals, but this is not a boosted motor. Detonation is not an issue.


Boosted motors running on pump gas need to run rich to avoid detonation. If the fuel had sufficient octane, there would be no need to run rich, and best power would be made with a more appropriate air fuel ratio. The richness that you are familiar with is there to cool the charge, not to make more power.

If you look at the pipe on a naturally aspirated, properly jetted race engine, it will be clean. If it is rich enough to blacken the pipe, it will be down on power by a considerable amount.

I'm not posting this for the sake of argument, I just wanted to make it clear that the situation is very different from a boosted motor on pump gas.

The issue that everyone is concerned with is power, and as I said before, I am simply stating my opinion of the situation.

I hope that this all sorts itself out soon.

PY

Me too. Thanks Paul for providing me (& others) much needed comfort.

ok me again
 

dont kill the messenger here!

i got off the phone with a service tech from my dealer and he said the car has tpo be broken in a couple thousand of miles. Ans the ecu would have to get reflashed to a better timming fot max performance and mpg. But the tech di say that it would probaly do it by itself or would have to go in to the dealer. The tech also said that it could be the dyno or the car wasnt set up proaply also the car makes alot of horepower beacuse of how the intake is designed so i dont think if u r on a dyno u can replicate the air flow or veolcity of air entering the air intake chambers.

well its just my 2 cents
.
.
.
GENERAL JEW

GENERAL,

Thanks for the info.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. I would consider getting a new keyboard.

What you're saying is true Paul, but you know that N/A motors still blow from detonation. They don't have to be boosted. And just because it came from the factory and Mazda engineers, doesn't mean it has to be perfect. Hell, look at the new STi's, they're probably going to have to do a recall because most of them detonate like crazy when it get warm outside ... they didn't test with lower octane US gas.

Of course the extra fuel is to cool the intake charge, but that's exactly the point. Any leaner and it gets to hot, and causes detonation.

I too hope this sorts itself out soon.

No, I don't know that, nor do I believe that. Additionally, if I did believe that, I would simply run higher octane fuel so that I could run the correct air fuel ratio.

If detonation were a concern, Downing Atlanta would not have won the 24 at Daytona on 87 octane pump gas, and Mazda would not have claimed several GT-3 championships on pump gas.

I'm sure there are many more examples, I am only stating those examples that I know ran pump gas, and ran an air fuel ratio that was optimized for power output, not detonation resistance.

If what you are saying is true, I would destroy every motor that I build while tuning it on the dyno.

You're not buying my explanation for the dyno results. That's fine. None of us have all the facts since we cannot know how the ECU is programmed.

I have stated my opinion about "where the power went", and you disagree.

I don't have a probelem with that, but let's not turn this into an argument about how a motor should be tuned.

I'm on your side. I just don't believe that Mazda made a 25 horsepower mistake.

Several people have made inquiries to Mazda, and I'm sure that the answers will be here soon enough.

I am giving Mazda the benifit of the doubt.....For Now. A few weeks and few miles down the road I WILL expect an explanation from them. I'm with Paul. I have a hard time believing that Mazda would release a Flagship car with MANY years of R&D with a very significant HP problem.

I will be patient for a while.

I'm gonna really show my ECU ignorance here and just ask a simple question.

Why can't we know?

Racer- We cannot know how it is programmed for several reasons but the single largest is the vast majority of ECUs are encrypted to prevent tampering with them. Someone will reverse engineer it and release ECU chips but we cannot get the factory program without the factory giving the code to someone and I am betting that isn't going to happen.

At this stage all we can do is wait and see what Mazda says about this whole deal. I have to say I am disappointed that no information is available at this time. If this is intentional it should be documented somewhere to prevent this type of situation and if it is unintentional Mazda should be saying they are looking into the matter seriously and every current owner will be informed ASAP.

Yup, Mazda got nowhere to hide in this day and age.. It's the Information Age baby.. fact or fiction spreads like wildfire!

I mean I love the car and all, but we all know we wanted 250.. When it dropped to 247, it took a little bit of me.. but I was like 3bhp, big deal.. But now, learning it could be even more.. ouch.

With the numbers we're seeing (180s rear wheel), doesnt that translate to about 200bhp at the flywheel then? :eek: I'm just grasping.. I dunno j@ck about the loss from drivetrain..

Can someone say buy-back?

I can understand anger and frustration at Mazda at this point, but based on owner reviews a majority of owners are thrilled with their RX-8s, so aside from fair advertising reasons and those who bought one only for bragging rights, I don't see why you'd want Mazda to buy back your car.

I can see why you''d want the option but based on the test drive I had earlier this week I frankly can't imagine giving the car up and it has also completely changed by notion of how much horsepower I need; if it's really only putting out 180 HP than apparently 180 HP is more than I need to keep me happy as I didn't find the car to be sluggish or underpowered in the least (and that's here at 5500' altitude where the car is making less HP than at sea level to begin with...)

I agree with Racer X-8 Why can't we know? We do not need the code. Just a simple answer to the question of remapping.

Will the ECU remap and at what point does this happen? (if so)

Me too!

I get a kick outa how so many loved their car when they thought it was 247hp. So far it seems that only one person (Herc?) has attempted a 0-60, and he's come pretty close to the advert time. Then a couple of dyno tests come out and outrage & lawsuits are the talk of webtown.

I'm not suggesting that false adverts are small potatoes, and Mazda will have to deal with that if it's true. But has anyone's car actually gotten slower because of these dyno tests? Has anyone's handling gotten worse? Have fewer heads turned while you're driving? It's still the same car y'all liked 2 weeks ago. Just Zaino it like it's got 247hp and we'll all be happy again.

Have you been planted by Mazda?

"OK, sure...it's got 250, no, 280, no, 300 little horses. I don't care what those nasty people on that forum say!"

"I paid $31,100, no, $28,100, no, $21,100 for it. Yeah, that's it!"

I might could live with 220 bhp, but I can't live with being told one thing but finding out another thing, then Mazda playing the waiting game to see if we will just get over it.

"I love rotary engines. Rotary engines are my friend...blahahahahaha" (Whooops!)

Mazda will not wait till we get over it. They have to respond soon, otherwise I will be parking my car in front of MNAO and demanding my money back. I will give them a chance. We should have some info by next week.

Also MarkRx posted these results on 7-29-03 (note two people in a car not broken in using G-tech):

LOL
No, but I think this is a win-win situation for me. I really enjoyed the car when I got it and I enjoy the car even more now that we've shared some miles, even after I've read the dyno reports. Now one of three things will happen:

1) This is a planned fuel mapping issue which will resolve itself in time, after which I will get the fully adverted 247hp and have more power than I do now! Whoohoo!

2) This is a case of false adverting, which may end up like the Miate mess, which means I will get free maintenance for several years and STILL have a car I really, really, REALLY like. ! Whoohoo! (The sad part of this is that Mazda will lose alot of credibility and we mayn't see the 7.)

3) Or this is a genuine engine problem which Mazda will have to address in a manner similar to case 2. This option I'm not so excited about, but it'll mean a new car or a full buyback, or some other financial compensation for a car that is great right now.

Not to pick on Digisan, but his post is recent in this thread.
On 07-22-2003 02:50 PM he posted:
"Picked up my RX-8
Fantastic car, I love it!"

On 08-01-2003 10:49 PM he posted (excerpt):
"...otherwise I will be parking my car in front of MNAO and demanding my money back."

Now the car he drove from the dealer didn't change at all. The only thing that changed was his perception of what was under the hood.

strange how peoples perceptions of things as a whole can change so drastically when thoughts of a part change slightly, especially when they wouldnt even have known better!


of course i can see it if its the principal of the matter...

Why does he have to be a "Mazda plant" to inject some common sense into the situation?

I don't remember seeing lots of traffic complaining of how underpowered the 8 felt, but when the dyno results were posted all hell broke loose.

I do love the rotary. I couldn't care less how many HP the engine makes as long as it doesn't feel sluggish. The RX-8 Sport MT I drove earlier this week didn't.

So, is it a big deal if Mazda advertised 247 HP and didn't deliver? Yes. Would it stop me from considering the RX-8? No.
Does it make the RX-8 any less enjoyable of a car than it was before you read your first dyno report? No.

As I've also mentioned before, would I have even shopped the RX-8 if it had a conventional engine? Also no.

So yes, I hope Mazda has something to say about the dyno test results seen here. I also believe they will need to do something to "set things right" with people who thought they were buying a car with 247 HP if it turns out it only has 200 at the crank.

But fact is if I want a rotary-powered car the RX-8 is it, and none of the posts here change what I felt when I test drove one earlier this week. They can restate the HP to 150 and it doesn't matter, it's still a quick sports car with a rotary to me and that's what I was hoping for from the 8. Perhaps the brouhaha over this is good if it causes someone near me to cancel their order and I can get their car.

Does that make me a Mazda plant? If so, someone in Irvine has been forgetting to mail my checks...

Have you ever owned a NA rotary? Do you have any clue what people that own them do to make more HP? Most buy an S-AFC and lean the car out on a dyno untill it makes the most power about -15 to -30%, which puts it at mid 13's in AFR, some people make best power as lean as 14.2. Also I have NEVER i mean NEVER heard of an NA rotary dying from detonation. And ive heard of some crazy stuff, like turning the CAS to more advance untill the motor stumbles, then turning it back a few degrees. I'm not saying there detonation proof, just that its very very hard to do. Im sure if you leaned it out to 15 soemthing it would most likley pop. Boosted rotarys are completly different 11's and 12's are used for protection of the motor.If you could lean out a turbo motor with out it blowing, im sure mid 13's would make the most power, just like the NA's

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...light=afc+dyno

supporting thread form rx7club, check out the dyno, notice where it goes up to 15:1 the torque dips, also where it goes to like 12:1 the torque dips up and down in almost exact sync with the AFR( compare the little ripples up and down) also notcie that this car survived a 15:1 ratio, and is still running. Many NA second gens go lean like that at 3800 rpm (its the infamous hesitation we experience when the computer switches injectors and doesnt have enough current to fire both at first because of bad grounding) And you dont see almost every second gen on the road with a blown motor do you?

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...o&pagenumber=1

lean spike of 18:1 , no blown motor here, also his target AFR was 14.2, and how he talks about how much the 12:1 hurt the top end.

I could find lots more threads, but i dont feel like it. Next time you post make sure its about soemthing you know, not something youve assumed from your work on boosted rotarys.

Also unless youve owned a rotary shop for many many years, with on on site dyno, and flow bench, and are one of the premier Tunners, who is ACTIVELY involved in tunning and developing products for rotarys RACING in many different areas including ITA, Pro7, E Production, and developing a supercharged RX8 for the speed world challenge (is this factory backed Yawpower?), as well as tunning rotarys for aviation use, and street use in NA and turbo form, including but not limited to periphreal ported, bridge ported and street ported Naturally aspirated Rotary motors which HAVE won races, i suggest you tink twice before second guessing him.

I also suggest you do more research on our forum about NA rotarys before you post here. No one is debating the fact that they like it leaner than the turbos, and make more power when leaned out closer to 14:1.

I'm probably going to get banned for this because he's admin :-(

Wrong, it's brand new! Why would I beat on it? It's quick, no doubt, but it's not broken in yet, therefore I have no idea about it's full potential. After the breakin I expect it to perform as advertised. The car thus far has been fantastic, on the other hand, I don't like being lied to or kept in the dark my $30K+. Some of us, (me), care about what we spend our money on. RX-8s don't grow on trees and they damn sure ain't cheap. The RX-8 package, as advertised, is what makes the 8 so appealing.

D-san

I understand what your saying and I would be happy with the car as is.

But why (if) is the engine down on power? I what to be reassured that there isn't a defect in design of manufactur.

If Mazda comes out and says, sorry we made a huge mistake and the engine can only make 210bhp, but the engine is within specs. I'd be pissed, but I'd keep the car.

I just find it funny that so many people here are assuming that it's Mazda keeping you in the dark. We have 2 dyno tests on green engines, with no real proof that they were even tested properly (ie the first one probably didn't have DSC properly disabled - and does anyone know technical details on how DSC would affect a dyno run?), and everyone is in a panic.

Why would you all be assuming that those two tests of green engines are absolutely accurate and that a gun-shy (burned once, maybe twice if you include parent Ford's Cobra experience) major corporation is going to risk everything by trying to pull another fast one by exaggerating HP numbers? I put a lot more faith in Mazda's engineers than these two tests, that's for damn sure.

The uproar this is all generating is quite hilarious - well it would be, if it weren't also so sad. Other auto forums are picking up on this and laughing at the RX-8 already - The RX-8's supposed enthusiasts are running around like chickens with their heads cut off and are ruining the reputation of a great car when it's barely off the showroom floor.

Relax, be patient, and don't be so ridiculous in all this overreaction!

Regards,
Gordon

Just to be fair, there is at least one vehicle that has been dynoed that has well over 1000 miles on it - almost equivalent to the mileage on at least one magazine test vehicle.

Also, I find it interesting that concern about what other auto boards may think of the RX-8 keeps coming up here. Is this really a big issue? Did people here really buy their cars based on what owners of other cars think of the RX-8? That seems silly to me...

I finally got to test drive the 8 yesterday afternoon. The dealer let me take it out on the freeway and let it go. The AC was fine. The car never seemed hot and I did not notice the AC cycling.

It was great and I did hit 8500 rpm a couple time in low gears (2nd and 3rd). I had it up to 85 mph at one point and it just sings. The salesman I was with had it up to 140 on his first drive and said it felt more like 70. That is when I realized how easy it is to drive at higher speeds. When I have been in non-sports cars 85+ can be scary from a stopping and handling perspective assuming you are sane enough to think about stopping in an emergency. In the 8 it was just plain fun. I wonder if you can get the car to 140 btw if you only have 183 horsepower? I hope someone will get out on a track and discuss the performance then.

I don't know what the true delivered horsepower is, but I was surprised at the push you into the seat take-offs. The car is pretty strong above 7000 rpm IMO. Please no flames, I am a novice but I play a pro on video games;)

I drove a car with the touring package FWIW. I'll comment on the stereo on another thread.

I think anyone making ANY conclusions at this point is being very premature. And I would be absolutely SHOCKED if there was any deception on Mazda's part.

I also think that anyone, like myself, that is waiting to take delivery should do so. IF there is an issue I have no doubt Mazda will remedy the situation somehow. The Ford/Mazda actions on the Explorer/Firestone, Cobra and Miata show that.

And even though the dyno runs are insufficient to come to any conclusion, they are enough to simply ASK what if anything is going on.

I have been in more than one situation where weeks before launch or even during the first weeks of a new vehicle launch, major problems pop-up not caught in development. It's not the engineers, it's the budget and time constraints. All cars are built to a cost and that cost includes testing, development, personel, and program time. Priorities are set and corners are cut.

The automotive industry is a bitch. That's why I left.


It's not the DSC part of the system that would cause problems. It's the traction control.

The DSC (ESP) is a yaw control program and only effects the car when it's spinning or pitching.

The TC on the other hand controls wheel spin. It does this by reading the TPS (throttle position sensor) and the ABS wheel speed sensors and the reference velocity sensor (usually a sensor on the drive-shaft). It then compares all and decides if the wheels are doing what they should be. If it concludes there is wheel spin then it can use the brakes or cut ignition spark to rectify the issue dependent on the severity of the wheel spin.

So, if you are spinning the rear wheels on a dyno and the front wheels are doing nothing the TC will read that as major wheel spin and cut-in dramatically.

This intervention will be very prominent on the torque curve. There would be no hiding it. You would see a major drop in power at the moment the TC activated and it would keep dropping since the only way to get the rear wheels to spin as fast as the front on the dyno is to stop the rear wheels from spinning at all. And even though there is an allowed amount of rear wheel spin, it's too small to go unoticed.

I'll try to restate my amusement with this whole situation.

I don't have a problem with the situation, but Mazda does. But however Mazda handles it will benefit us. We will get a stronger car when it reaches the mileage trigger, or we will get compensated by Mazda in some way.

But prior to reading these dyno threads we were all happy, numb-butted drivers enjoying our cars, passing cars with glee, completely unable to tell the difference between 180rhp and 210rhp. Now we know our butts are unreliable and we're afraid of what the neighbors will say.

Digi-san, if you had hopped into your car and driven for months, never visiting this website until Christmas after next, you'd still be loving your car, ignorant of the missing rhp, because in 99% of driving conditions it just doesn't matter.

You drove your car, you accelerated, braked,and cornered your car, you got in and out of your car, you looked at your car and you listened to your car.

You loved your car...

............then you read some dyno results.....

....................and now your car sucks.

Forcing yourself to dislike your car isn't going to make the answer come any sooner, and it will probably bring you less satisfaction when the answer arrives. So sit back, re-enjoy your car, and if anyone asks how much hp it has, just say "Hop in. Let me show you." They will be as impressed with the car as you were a week ago.

Uhmmm, no.
Most people who own RX-8s haven't been able to check whether the upper power range is missing because they are making an effort to run their engines in at lower revs. It IS, therefore, a big deal to them because some day they WILL want to redline the engine and they'll be sorely disappointed if nothing useful happens. This is a PERFORMANCE car! It's marketed as 'A Sportscar like no other'. Regardless of how well it drives with the (hypothetical as yet) problem it would still be missing a significant part of its reason to exist if the engine is not what we were sold. There is a law in the UK called the 'Sales of goods act' what ensures that the specification of an advertised product matches the specification of the purchased item. If the Renesis IS down on power then the RX-8 would contravene that law. I presume that the US has a similar law so this is not trivial. Look, it doesn't matter if the car seems plenty fast enough even though it's missing a bit of power and therefore we should all just put up with it and not worry, this is an expensive product and we want the specification we ordered and paid for!

Absolutely agree - I just think it's waaaaaay too early to conclude that we haven't got the spec that we ordered and paid for.

Sure, the early green engine dyno runs raise a few questions, but at this stage that should be all. Talk of boycotts and lawsuits and conspiracies and ripoffs are all incredibly premature.

Regards,
Gordon

Quote:

---

It's not the DSC part of the system that would cause problems. It's the traction control.

The DSC (ESP) is a yaw control program and only effects the car when it's spinning or pitching.

The TC on the other hand controls wheel spin. It does this by reading the TPS (throttle position sensor) and the ABS wheel speed sensors and the reference velocity sensor (usually a sensor on the drive-shaft). It then compares all and decides if the wheels are doing what they should be. If it concludes there is wheel spin then it can use the brakes or cut ignition spark to rectify the issue dependent on the severity of the wheel spin.

So, if you are spinning the rear wheels on a dyno and the front wheels are doing nothing the TC will read that as major wheel spin and cut-in dramatically.

This intervention will be very prominent on the torque curve. There would be no hiding it. You would see a major drop in power at the moment the TC activated and it would keep dropping since the only way to get the rear wheels to spin as fast as the front on the dyno is to stop the rear wheels from spinning at all. And even though there is an allowed amount of rear wheel spin, it's too small to go unoticed.

---

To me, this sounds like a very possible explanation of the deficit experienced in some of the dyno tests to date. TC/ECU reads what the front wheels are doing as well as the rear. The RW only dyno tells the computer that there is a massive amount of wheelspin taking place when the fronts aren't turning at all.

I for one am responsible in writing my opinions of this topic which has so easily been hitting nerves.
Since this thread IS about dyno results and NOT opinions, lets take our opinions to the more appropriate thread, shall we? No offense anyone, it's just hard to chatch up on dyno results with all these opinions too...
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8003
See ya there too:)
(The poll is dead-even as I write this. Hmmmm......)

Yeah, but you won't be able to miss the intervention.

The dyno would be similiar to being on slick ice. The engine would practically shut off.

The the torque curve would look fine until probably 4000RPM and then it would drop off the cliff.

No way to miss it. The guy making the dyno run would immediately notice the RPM's drop as the engine cuts out.

There is only one possiblity. If the TC is shut off the engine management computer (through the CAN) may read the wheel speed sensors and if it sees the large difference between front and rear wheels it will decrease engine power to try and "save" itself.

In essence to enure you don't accidently do a 9000RPM launch if the tires suddenly get traction.

But I've never heard of any car actually being set up that way. And I don't see how reducing power only by 20% would make a difference. Instead it would lower the fuel cut-off to something like 5000RPM.

It's not the DSC/TC causing the problem.

The solution is simple for the buyer: just test drive a demo RX-8 and rev it to redline in first and second (like I did) and ignoring hp numbers etc. My demo car had <100 miles on it and was damn fast with four on board.

If you are happy with the performance then buy it (like I am doing). And perhaps it will even improve later or Mazda will give you some nice incentives if there is a mistake. 'Woohoo' to quote ggreen.

If you are unhappy then try again in a few months when power may be better, or just buy another car.

The problem is tougher for Mazda from a PR perspective - the longer they wait to make a statement (assuming things are working as designed) the more people will think there is a real issue.

OK, I'm cleaning the BB-Q for tonight, having a Corona w/lime (a Corona w/o lime is a crime) and thinking about this.

Yes I am a dork! Can't help it, makes me a good engineer though.
;)

Anyhow, the RX-8 has an electronic throttle. Did anyone that ran the car on a dyno check the throttle position?

With E-throttles it's somewhat difficult to calibrate the pedal to ensure WOT (wide open throttle) at full pedal travel.


I know more speculation. Oh well!

Doctorr brings the issue up towards the top of the 7th page.

-Mr. Wigggles

Not true for me. The biggest reason for going to the dyno was that I expected the 8 to be only a bit slower than a fresh/stock FD. My first impression in an FD was "WOW!" My first impression of the 8 was more like "It's Zippy" I was expecting a firmer push in the seat feeling. I burned off a thousand miles and went straight to the dyno. I don't dream I'm amazingly sensitive but 25 - 30 hp is hard to go un-noticed! I think my mom could tell the difference if she could A/B compare identical cars with one being 30hp less.

I am still quite excited about the car! It turns heads big time. It starts converstions. It looks better than any other car (my opinion). It really has great performance. It should be faster. The first time an S2000 pulls away from me before I can blink - I will be extremely upset. Half of the fun is knowing "what she can do"

99% of my driving conditions use 100% of available HP. Not that I am racing the thing all the time. Just passing a soccer mom van makes me put the pedal all the way down. I enjoy passing quickly then calming down to a reasonable speed. Any car can go 90. My car should get there quickly.

I repeat: I WANT MY 247 F*&@$%G HORSEPOWER.

....... Patiently waiting for a mere 20,000 miles to pass me by waiting for my HP to arrive from the dark side of the moon.

PS. My GSL-SE never got any quicker after the 700 or so miles I gave it to break-in.

On the other hand there have been numerous interviews with the Mazda engineers who have said since January if not longer that they did not want the "kick" of the RX-7 and instead deliberately went for a softer, smoother acceleration curve for the 8.

That doesn't excuse any potentially missing HP, but it does signify that the acceleration characteristics the car seems to have now match perfectly with what we read the designers' intentions were...

You obviously have no clue who I am ...

wow, that's really funny...just about made my week =) and it's only monday

Glad I could help

Thought of another thing -

What with talk of there being a set point where power is "unlocked" to allow a good breakin, there's another possibility besides fuel and timing. Since the throttle is totally controlled by the ECU, the ECU could easily not open the throttle fully. So, you have your foot to the floor, but the ECU is only giving it 80% throttle.

One positive aspect of this - down the road, as more RX-8's show up on dealer floors, people are gonna go beat the crap out of them test driving. Having the ECU electronically hold back until the engine is broken in would be a Good Thing. This way if you end up buying the one that was heavily test driven, you'll still have a motor with a long life ahead of it.

Dale

2nd page:p

Anyway, well it's a good question.

If some one could have the TP checked to see if it goes to WOT it would be nice.

This does not require a dyno, just a diagnostic tool. Any good shop or the dealer can do it easily and quickly on the spot.

This has been brought up before.

But realize that simply holding the throttle back to 80% won't cause overrich problems. It might be part of it, but not all of it.

---jps

Quick Question regarding purchase
 

Just a quick question:

Base on the recent dyno results, the RX-8 6MT seems to be making 210-215hp at the crank. If this information is indeed accurate, how does it affect your purchasing decision on the RX-8? For those who have purchased the car already, would knowing such information prior to your purchase change your ultimate decision in buying the car? Be honest and hopefully some people from Mazda USA would be paying attention to your responses. (Better yet, start a new thread focusing on this issue)

I truly wonder how many people on the fence are holding off their RX-8 purchase because of these recent dynos. 30hp differential is huge when it comes to a performance oriented car.

The question about what effect this may have on a purchase decision should probably go in a different thread, but at least for me I don't care - I loved the way the RX-8 felt on a test drive and I'm not going to beat the car any harder than I did going down a freeway onramp.

That having been said, my interest in this issue is more in Mazda's response to it than the issue per se. I want to see how Mazda would react should there be some other major issue that comes up...