"Marbles/Sand in Can" Problem -- please respond
 

I know many of you have a "Marbles in Can" or "Sand in Can" problem coming from engine on the passanger side. My vehicle starting having this problem at around 160 miles and continues to do so.

As a reminder, I get a "sand in can/marbles in can" sound in every gear from 5800 RPM up to red line. It's really annoying because instead of hearing my engine (which is one main reason why I purchased the car), I hear this strong rattling noise which greatly diminishes my enjoyement of the car. Every person that I have had in the car has asked me what is wrong with my car...

After taking it to two dealers, I am confident that the issue is one of the following:
- air in heater core, or
- water in heater core

In either case, it's traveling so fast in the heater core that it creates this sound. Both Mazda dealerships basically said they empathizie with me but they don't know how to fix.

After much discussion with Mazda of USA, I am having the regional zone representative AND a technician from Mazda of USA meet me at my local shop to listen to the noise this Thursday.

I would like to start a poll and try and get an idea of how many people are having this issue. I would like to take this information with me to my meeting.

By the way, has anyone having this issue tried replacing the heater core?

I will post the results of my meeting on Thursday. This is definitely a good step and I look forward to helping find a resolution.

I don't really know what it sounds like, so I guess I don't have the problem (i.e. I don't notice any sounds at high RPM). I'd like to hear it just so I know what it sounds like. I'd ask if there's a sound clip anywhere, but then someone would say "Use the Search", then I'd have to admit that I'm lazy... It'd be a mess.

Mine sounds like liquid behind the glove box. Easiest to hear if I'm not moving and blip to a high rev and then let go. Definitely not to noticeable for me, I have to be listening for it usually to hear it. But I only have a little over 20 K miles on the car,

Mike54 did a recording:

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15

File description:
0-10 second, acceleration, 1st gear
10-16 second - 2nd gear, you can hear the noise between 13 and 16 second
16-21 second 3rd gear - the noise can be heard between 18 and 20 second

Air in Heater Core
 

I have the exact same thing...started when it was new...now has 5k miles on it. Sounds like rustling paper or running water...seems to get load around 6500 RPM on mine...all the way to redline. The local dealer talked to Mazda Technical service...as a test they bypassed the heater core...problem gone. Of course they couldn't leave it like this...so, the dealer ordered a new heater core...been 3 months...still waiting.

I have noticed the problem seems to be randomly loud...it is always there...but sometimes more subtile. With the colder weather...I hear it less.

I have the marbles but it's not the heater core, but rather the intake manifold. Dealership can't fix it.

Can't the intake manifold be replaced?

Wow, I'm glad I don't have that sound. I would be throwing a fit at the dealer if I had to deal with that.

Dunno...it would be kind of awkward for them to replace something like that (and I'm guessing is quite expensive) just because of a minor sound, and to go with thatt I'm told it's 'normal' not just by the dealership but by some people here on this board. It's the fuel injectors at 7300 RPMs for me, and the sound goes away at about 8000.

Honestly Raptor, I wouldn't have the dealership replace the manifold just because of a sound that others seem to think is normal. Too much of a chance of the dealership breaking something else while they're in there "fixing" your problem.

By the way, I'm waiting for zenmoused and Mike54 to join Club Marbles.

excuse my ignorance, but what is SDAIS?

Super Dimensional Air Ionizer System weapon

a.k.a. Gundamn!

um... yeah...

Note: so I don't have the sound. Too bad I can't change my vote.

Mine is definitely the heater core. The technician crimped the house into the heater core reducing water flow, and the noise went away.

Raptor2k, how did the technician diagnosis the problem was the intake manifold?

My noise seems to be worse with cold weather. And, its intermittent. Seems like it is less noticable when I let the car warm up for a long time before I drive. Mine is like a rustling or sand in a can, and seems to more noticable when I get on the gas at low rpm (i.e. 2-3.5k)

Strangely enough, I don't think I noticed this noise at all before I put my RP Supercat on, which was only about 3k mi. ago (I have 34k mi. on the car) I wonder if the supercat could have anything to do with it?

I have the mazdaspeed cat back dual muffler sport exhaust on mine... but I know it's the heatercore. Technician just crimped the hose to heatercore and noise went away.

SDAIS = Sequential Dynamic Air Intake System

It's what controls the opening and closing of our secondary and tertiary ports.

They specifically didn't tell me it was that, but from the forum I've learned it's the SDAIS (which is in the intake manifold, I think..)

I cant really hear anything special from the Clip. Maybe cuz the comp Im using have a suck ass speaker ?

Theres was some *ding ding ding ding* noise when going above 5500 rpm thru about 7K rpm. it happens *sometimes* between those RPM.

Not sure if its the *marble* sound or its just the secondary port opening. I seal the VFAD tube and it seems that the sound went away.(I think)

Let me go out and test right now. I have to pick up my gf anyway. Will report back once I get to her home (about hour and 1/2 from now)

goodness it would be nice if Mazda did something about this. I'm so sick of dealing with it.

Good luck with everything Darien and let me know if you need more info/help.
-Gilbert
EDIT:If you need me to mix down the tape of the "Sound/Noise" that I have captured on video, Send me a pm with a address and I will send you a dvd illustrating this issue that a lot of us are dealing with.

Wow. Thanks for the link. Now I understand what you guys are talking about. That sucks. I certainly don't have that problem, but for those who do, I can understand why it drives you nuts.

Sorry about the late reply, my GF wont let me use internet (You know girls ..... said I pay attention to computer more than her ! .... SIGH!)

and I forgot about it until now ... ok here is my findings.

My car have almost the same sound. starting around 6K rpm I will get the *ding ding ding ding* sound, and after that about Over 7K rpm I will get some *fuuuuUuuuuuu buuuuuuuu* kinda like Water flowing sound.

but I think this is normal maybe? cuz Renesis by design. It opens the Secondary port at around 3500 RPM, Aux Port at about 6250. and Last Connecting intake at 7250

Those number match the sound that Im *hearing*. Does Anybody actually has a dead engine related to this *sound* yet ?

Im fine with the sound, I just treat it as *engine default* noise thats all :O

but its certainly a plus if we can get rid of it !

The water sound is normal I believe.

I never had this issue till they replaced my engine and put a 2nd oil cooler on my 8 so maybe it is but dam it sucks.

U know what Im thinking.

I think Im going to find a very long wired computer microphone.connect it to my laptop. and stick the mic to different area of the engine until I can find the spot of the noise.

but Im trying to find a small mic with long wire -_- I have one somewhere but u just cant find it when you need it ....

I just heard this sound in my car for the first time this morning. It's a 2006 with 1,250 miles on it. It is much colder today (teens) than it has been recently. I heard it just past 6k on the way up to redline (6sp MT). The car was fully warmed up (had been running for 20 minutes before doing this). I definitely can see why many people think it sounds like sand in a can. To me, it sounds a lot like my kids rain stick. Regardless, I still love the car.

UPDATE: Met with Regional Zone Rep and a technician representative from Mazda of NA. Both heard the issue and agreed it was a problem. Then, they went out in a brand new RX8, and the same noise occured. AWESOME!

Regional Zone Rep said "must be something that when you get tuned into, it drives you nuts." They didn't spend time diagnosising the problem (it appeared they were satisfied that is was fluid/air in heatercore 'pinging' around because technicians said that from two dealerships. They will be contacting their japan representative technician immediately.

Couldn't ask for anything more. Thank you to my Mazda dealership and Mazda of NA for taking this step (although it took 'a little' pushing from me).

To be fair, after reading all the posts about this issue, there seems to be three issues that fall under the umbrella of "marbles/sand in a can." I can't speak for the other two, but I can say that this problem is very specific as it gets more intense as RPM's get higher, AND it comes from directly behind the glove compartment.

I will keep everyone informed.

There's a list of marbles in the general RX-8 forum. You might want to take a look at that.

I bought the car brand new (0 miles) and I have had that noise from day one. It starts around 6.5 to redline when I push the car really hard. It sounds like its comming from behind the glove box more than anywhere else. It dosent get louder with the windows down. Mine is very distinct and really sucks that I cant hear the engine in its high reving state of glory. Please Someone figure this one out!

Thats what work is for. I work up until lunch and then the rest of my work day I just surf the forums. I mean jeeze got to let the food digest for atleast 3 hours before getting stressed again at work. Thats why god invented heartburn.

Yup! That's the same problem, guaranteed.
1) Take it to your dealer and complain about it. Have them tell you what the noise is and ask them how to fix. Here, they may want you to wait a little to see if the air (if it is air) comes out of the coolent system.
2) Eventually, you'll get to a point where they tell you it's normal and there nothing they can do,
3) Tell them that the noise is unacceptable and ask them for the customer service number of Mazda NA,
4) Mazda of NA will then have you do some stuff
5) Do it and eventually we want to get to a point where a regional rep and technician from Mazda of NA comes down to listen to the problem -- your service manager can help here also.

I think it's important to go through this process because:
1) you may have a different problem
2) you want to go through their process and let them know you are working with them

Just make sure you don't take no for an answer. Don't be satisfied with "there's nothing we can do becasue it's normal" I didn't... now I've gotten my zone rep and technician from Mazda of NA to see the problem in two cars and want to fix it.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Well that also means If they really admit(or sees) the problem, they will issue a TSB for it. Just like everything else like the Airbag rattle TSB.

let's not get too ahead of ourselves. all i have to say is now they are tuned into the problem and two RX8's they drove today had that same issue (mine and a new one off the lot). The owner of the dealership offered to have them disect one of their own RX8's to fix it.

:icon_tup:

I just haven't bothered to go to step 3, just too busy.

The new one I drove on the lot had it too (it's detailed elsewhere on the forum). The owner of that lot probably offered one of his RX-8s to MNAO since he'll probably get reimbursed for the car and it's one less RX-8 he'll have to discount to sell.

I hate this noise!!! I have spent another, entire day fighting with it (and the dealer)... the outcome - nothing.

The easiest way of diagnosing this (if you think you might have some other problem) is to restrict the coolant flow (as it was said before) from the engine to the heater core - in my case the noise was gone... and it was gone for a day... but of course came back...

Until there is TSB for that I can't do anything about it... so all of you who have this... go to your dealer and report this so it is noticed as a serious issue. Well for the summer time I will cut of the damn heater if the problem is not resolved. I just hope that US TSB works for europe as well :)

For those of you that are "marbles-free" - another recording (standstill, neutral, revved 3-8.500 rpm - the actual recording is between 6-15 second)
http://private.tessel.pl/mazda/noise/V1117002.MP3
Don't you tell me it is normal... :Eyecrazy:

I'm looking forward to hearing what they say about it. I listened to Mike54's recording and my 8 makes the same noise in the same place - marbles and sand on the passenger side. Thanks for the info!

I don't believe I have this noise on my car, and after listening to Mike54's recording it sounds like to me that something broke off within the engine somewhere and is spinning around inside there, be it part of a seal or something from the intake. I wonder if any of you that have this have excessive oil usage or lose of power?

Neither, just the noise at high RPMs for me.

The skinny has been that people that have the heater core noise have had no loss of power, CEL, or any other driveability issues. The car revs just as freely as it always has and feels just as powerful. It's simply a noise and honestly I've gotten to the point where I just ignore it.

Its more like something is loose. I think

I just can't ignore it. I purchased the car because of the beautiful sound of the rotery engine. Instead of hearing the engine, I hear that noise from behind the glove compartment. Just like the zone rep said, once you get tuned into it, it drives you nuts.

Plus, no car should do this. If you haven't already, please go to the dealer and complain about this, have them crimp the heatercore, and if it goes away, you know it's the heater core fluid. If enough of us with this problem are willing to put the time it takes to get their zone manager to hear this, it will help everyone.

It's not that I don't think this is annoying, but it's hard to find time to go to the dealership and haggle with them. Also, I don't like the idea of leaving my car with them due to all the horror stories from people here. Even though I like my dealer, I really don't want to take the chance. Someday I'll probably get around to addressing this, but for now I lack the motivation.

When I brought my car to the second dealership, it took them 10 minutes to determine it was the heatercore. I was there a total of 30 minutes... If you don't spend the time to change what you don't like, it won't change by itself.

It's not about diagnosis. It's the fact that they then keep my car for a day or more calling Mazda Tech, bleeding my heater core, etc. etc. I don't want the car at the dealers that long since it increases the chance of something happening to it. I also don't want the dealer techs driving my car. I really only take the car to the dealers for warranty repairs, so I think it's pretty obvious that I have a distrust of technicians in general. Not to mention right now there's no real cure for it. Honestly, I appreciate your effort in getting it fixed and am willing to support you. My car is already in Mazda's computer as having the problem and it not having been fixed. For now, since it's not a driveability issue, I have no time during the week, and during weekends I'm either traveling or working on other stuff for the car, I'm going to put working out this problem on hold.

By the way, if you drive the car hard (repeatedly redline), the sound goes away. I hope this little tidbit of information helps, but if you want to tell Mazda that you might want to do it in such a way so that they don't suspect you of abuse.

I did leave my car with my dealership (which I also usually have no trouble with, they're great) last summer for a whole day and night just for them to tell me they can't fix it, but it's normal anyway. I was very tuned in with the sound since then, but after some time, it really doesn't bother me anymore. I used to say that it does in fact ruin the rotary beauty at high RPMs...but these days I don't notice it as much. It's still always there, no matter what I do, but oh well.

I'd love for this to become a TSB though. It's also hard to let the car go for even a day - it's just so fun to drive and driving a beater or rental is just torture.

Does this mean that they fixed it for you already?
What state do you live in?
I have the same thing exactly from the glove box at 8k+rpms.

Got my marbles in a can today for the first time. 600 miles on the car. Grrrr.