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MongoRX 07-13-2011 09:38 PM

MANUAL Transmission swap, Series 2 in a Series 1
 
This may seem just stupid but just to be sure, is the series 2 transmission a direct fit for the series 1s? If not what other modification would you have to do to make it fit? Thanks in advance!

fuztupnz 07-13-2011 09:43 PM

Yes. I believe it fits with no modification. Olddragger is the man to ask. I know he's done it as well as a few others.


Calling OD!!!! Calling OD!!!!

Jon316G 07-13-2011 09:45 PM

The S2 transmission will fit in a S1 vehicle, I did this a few months ago.
Its a little bulkier, so I recommend attaching the slave cylinder before lifting the transmission all the way up or else you won't be able to get your hands up there.

Only modification will be on the reverse and neutral switches/sensors.
The connectors are different between the S1 and S2 transmissions, so you'll need to cut and wire your own disconnects.
I just used quick disconnect terminals and had male ends on one switch and females on the other, that way I don't mix anything up.
If I was better prepared I might have ordered weather-proof connectors and crimped my own pins, but they've been holding up so far.

fuztupnz 07-13-2011 09:49 PM

Sweet, didn't know you did it too Jon. What do you think of it so far?

Jon316G 07-13-2011 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by fuztupnz (Post 4030322)
Sweet, didn't know you did it too Jon. What do you think of it so far?

Never got a chance to drive it ;)
This was for a local guy who has a dedicated RX8 race car.
But he told me that it performs very well, so I'll likely do it on my car too.

MongoRX 07-13-2011 10:13 PM

Thanks for your guys replies! I was just weighing options because im pretty sure my second gear is going to call it quits soon. Id rather have a more dependable unit than just replace a gear and a syncro at mazdas prices just to have it go in another 20k

rxat2012 08-28-2011 07:44 PM

wires are the same colors just different connectors?

Jon316G 08-28-2011 07:51 PM


Originally Posted by rxat2012 (Post 4065484)
wires are the same colors just different connectors?

I don't recall if the wire colors were the same.
I used a meter to check continuity at each connector on the S2 tranny to see which was the reverse and neutral switch.
Then matched to the known wiring on the car.

rxat2012 08-30-2011 12:52 AM

well i put mine in only to find out that there is no shifter for it and the s1 dosnt fit.... awesomeness... and the two sensor how do you tell witch is witch they are identical and both have blue wires

Jon316G 08-30-2011 12:56 AM

Shifter is different because you have to press down, left, forward to go in reverse instead of down, right, back like on the S1.

Here is my DIY for testing the sensors on a S1 tranny:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-test-neutral-reverse-switch-200453/
Use the same idea to find out what the sensors are on the S2 tranny.
And on your car, the white connectors are for the neutral switch and the black connectors are for the reverse switch.

Grace_Excel 08-30-2011 02:55 AM

I've considered doing this since my third gear started grinding and when I found out that it's a direct fit thanks Jon316G for the added info.

kma5783 07-01-2012 11:24 PM

Bumping this thread rather than starting a new one...

Does anyone know if the Reverse and Neutral Control Switches from the Series 1 Trans will work on the Series 2?

Edit
No the 2 Switches are physically different so you Can NOT use Series 1 Reverse and Neutral Switches in a new Series 2 Transmission.

yomomspimp06 07-02-2012 12:38 AM

that's answered in this thread I believe...

kma5783 07-02-2012 12:51 AM

Actually it's not...it says the wires/connectors on the series 2 sensors are different and have to be changed to work with the wiring harness on the series 1 car. It doesn't say whether or not the Series 1 Reverse and Neutral Control Switches will physically work and fit in the Series 2 Transmission.

yomomspimp06 07-02-2012 01:05 AM

i see what you mean now.

JPotta 07-03-2012 08:10 AM

I don't believe they do, when I swapped the S2 trans into my 05' I had to use the S2 sensors then cut and wire on the plugs from my S1 trans. sensors.

olddragger 07-03-2012 08:15 AM

true.
Also you may want to do a little more heat shielding as the trans is closer to the exhaust. Some midpipes get pretty close to it.
Another hint--you cant fill this trans from the top, through the shifter hole, like the s1's.
Its one of the best mods I have ever made.

kma5783 07-03-2012 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by JPotta (Post 4299187)
I don't believe they do, when I swapped the S2 trans into my 05' I had to use the S2 sensors then cut and wire on the plugs from my S1 trans. sensors.

Damn, not what I wanted to hear, Did you actually try to use the Series 1 Sensors first?

Looks like I'll be sourcing the Series 2 Reverse and Neutral Control Switches.


Originally Posted by olddragger (Post 4299191)
true.
Also you may want to do a little more heat shielding as the trans is closer to the exhaust. Some midpipes get pretty close to it.
Another hint--you cant fill this trans from the top, through the shifter hole, like the s1's.
Its one of the best mods I have ever made.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll see how close it comes to the Midpipe, I'm running the BHR Midpipe.

And Yea I heard you can't fill the Series 2 Trans from the top.

Thanks Guys

yomomspimp06 07-03-2012 08:06 PM

I've been following this thread but I can't seem to figure out what's better about the Series2 trans?

nycgps 07-03-2012 09:16 PM

it can take more beating than the S1 Aisin Transmission, which is infamous for it's "easy to break" factor, even at stock power level.

mine is hold up SO FAR,64K miles, knock knock

I forgot who made the S2 Tranny, was it Mazda?

550rwhrex 07-03-2012 09:51 PM

If anybody is intrested I have a Series II transmission for sale, with starter and Switches(if i can find them)

PM me for more info
https://www.rx8club.com/se-sale-want...single-235353/

erikv 09-21-2012 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by yomomspimp06 (Post 4299669)
I've been following this thread but I can't seem to figure out what's better about the Series2 trans?

It's a top load design (i.e. much beefier and resistant to damage).

I did the S1 to S2 trans swap back in January and can say that it is 100% bolt up compatible. The electrical connectors are different, so cut off the connectors from the S1 trans and splice onto the S2 trans. You'll also need the S2 shift lever and bushing as it is different and if you really need to, replace the shifter knob as the shift pattern is different (reverse is left/up instead of right/down). The new Mazda knob was over $100, so I did without -- I know where reverse is ;-)

I ordered a new trans direct from Mazda via the Mazdaspeed Motorsports Racer Support program. Part numbers:

S2 Trans: P6Y1-03-000
S2 Shift Lever: P610-17-510B
S2 Shift Bushing: P611-17-492

And while you have it all apart, consider replacing the clutch...

yomomspimp06 09-21-2012 01:40 PM

thanks

Carbon8 10-17-2012 08:13 AM

From what I have been reading to me the s2 swap has more drawbacks then it's worth. Here's what I have gathered so far.

Pro's
More durable(thicker casing is all I can see) no one has said what else is more durable about it other than beefier housing
Very easy swap. Just rewire two connectors.

Con's
Heavier than S1
When used with S1 diff gear ratios suffer and drive is actually slower than S1

Sorry if I missed something but what exactly about this transmission is better then?

Carbon8 10-17-2012 09:28 AM

Also to anyone who has done this swap did you use a S1 or S2 throughout bearing as they are different?

Carbon8 10-17-2012 01:08 PM

Bump, to get over the slew of live ads today.

Thoughts on previous statements please :)

Emery_ 10-17-2012 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4368194)
From what I have been reading to me the s2 swap has more drawbacks then it's worth. Here's what I have gathered so far.

Pro's
More durable(thicker casing is all I can see) no one has said what else is more durable about it other than beefier housing
Very easy swap. Just rewire two connectors.

Con's
Heavier than S1
When used with S1 diff gear ratios suffer and drive is actually slower than S1

Sorry if I missed something but what exactly about this transmission is better then?

Thicker casing might be the only thing you can actually see without opening up the gearbox. It is a more durable transmission than the aisin gearbox, at least from personal opinion and there are others who have said the same. Durability is something people would prefer over the aisin. My S1 tranny gave out on its own without any abuse at 90k miles.

The gear ratio is also lower than the s1 which improves acceleration.

I'm not sure where you're getting that the it would be slower with the series 1 differential? It hasn't affected my ride quality or acceleration, all I know is I that for sure my car is faster than before, but I also have other mods.


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4368225)
Also to anyone who has done this swap did you use a S1 or S2 throughout bearing as they are different?

I believe I am using the S2 throwout bearing, although a mazda dealer were the ones who ordered it, so I'm not exactly sure which one they ordered to be honest. But it should be the s2 throwout bearing.

Overall yes the S2 slightly weighs more than the S1, other than being a pain in the ass when I had to pick up the transmission, (I picked both of them up by myself for transportation) it's not like it weighs the car down by much. It is a better transmission than the S1, I do think the aisin gearbox was much smoother in the way it shifted than the S2, but it's nice to know that I have a better gear ratio and more durable tranny. 3rd gear seems to be the gear that typically goes bad for the aisin box.

Carbon8 10-17-2012 02:02 PM

I found a good read about S2 transmission internal sturdiest comparison attached below.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-te...ussion-135710/
Reference post 16

So how much slower would an S1 with S2 trans be given the smaller final OE gear vs a stock S1
And if that's the case nd you are not tracking your car hence don't need the beefier trans out of a S2. Why do so many claim it's the best for daily driving as well? Doesn't make sense to make your car heavier and slower.

erikv 10-18-2012 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4368194)
From what I have been reading to me the s2 swap has more drawbacks then it's worth. Here's what I have gathered so far.

Pro's
More durable(thicker casing is all I can see) no one has said what else is more durable about it other than beefier housing
Very easy swap. Just rewire two connectors.

Con's
Heavier than S1
When used with S1 diff gear ratios suffer and drive is actually slower than S1

Sorry if I missed something but what exactly about this transmission is better then?

I use my RX-8 for track days and 3rd gear lets me go to 100 instead of 85. I don't consider that a drawback. ;-)

The couple pounds heavier isn't much of a drawback for the improvement in reliability. Before I did the swap I asked someone who manages an MX-5 Cup team (newer MX-5 uses the S2 trans) if I should replace with a S1 or S2 trans and she said hands down get the S2 trans.

Carbon8 05-28-2013 10:24 AM

Figured I would through this here.

S1 Trans Gear; 3.76, 2.269, 1.65, 1.187, 1, .843
S1 Diff; 4.44
S2 Trans Gear; 3.815, 2.26, 1.64, 1.177, 1, .832
S2 Diff 4.77

S1 Dif S1 trans; 16.6944, 10.07436, 7.326, 5.27028, 4.44, 3.74292
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 16.9386, 10.7802. 7.2816, 5.22588, 4.44, 3.69408
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 17.9352, 10.82313, 7.8705, 5.66199, 4.77, 4.02111
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 18.19755, 10.7802, 7.8228, 5.61429, 4.77, 3.96864

I don't know enough about gearing to provide a conclusion so please those with the appropriate knowledge feel free to share some insight on what to expect between the above.

Carbon8 05-29-2013 07:09 AM

Little reasearch and a little math later and I have some results

S1 Dif S1 trans; 16.6944, 10.07436, 7.326, 5.27028, 4.44, 3.74292
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 16.9386, 10.7802. 7.2816, 5.22588, 4.44, 3.69408
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 17.9352, 10.82313, 7.8705, 5.66199, 4.77, 4.02111
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 18.19755, 10.7802, 7.8228, 5.61429, 4.77, 3.96864

Top Speed@8500
S1 Dif S1 trans; 39, 65, 89, 124, 147, 175
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 39, 61, 90, 125, 147, 177
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 37, 61, 83, 116, 137, 163
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 36, 61, 84 ,117, 137, 165

Synapsis

S2 setup will provide better acceleration with a lower top speed.
S1 Setup will achieve slower acceleration but a higher top speed

It seems the best setup would actually be a S1 Trans and S2 diff, but considering the S1 trans is garbage compared to the S2 It seems that and S1 diff w/ a S2 Trans is the best all around setup, wish first gear had a little more output torque though.

Side note, if you are looking to enter the 200MPH club it is theoretically possible with a 3.9 diff(Mazmart sells) using either an S1 or S2 trans.

Emery_ 05-30-2013 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4479540)
Little reasearch and a little math later and I have some results

S1 Dif S1 trans; 16.6944, 10.07436, 7.326, 5.27028, 4.44, 3.74292
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 16.9386, 10.7802. 7.2816, 5.22588, 4.44, 3.69408
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 17.9352, 10.82313, 7.8705, 5.66199, 4.77, 4.02111
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 18.19755, 10.7802, 7.8228, 5.61429, 4.77, 3.96864

Top Speed@8500
S1 Dif S1 trans; 39, 65, 89, 124, 147, 175
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 39, 61, 90, 125, 147, 177
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 37, 61, 83, 116, 137, 163
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 36, 61, 84 ,117, 137, 165

Synapsis

S2 setup will provide better acceleration with a lower top speed.
S1 Setup will achieve slower acceleration but a higher top speed

It seems the best setup would actually be a S1 Trans and S2 diff, but considering the S1 trans is garbage compared to the S2 It seems that and S1 diff w/ a S2 Trans is the best all around setup, wish first gear had a little more output torque though.

Side note, if you are looking to enter the 200MPH club it is theoretically possible with a 3.9 diff(Mazmart sells) using either an S1 or S2 trans.

The good thing though is that if you're going to put a S2 trans in a S1, you're not losing on acceleration if you still have the S1 diff.

According to your numbers it's still better than the S1 setup, right?

Carbon8 05-30-2013 06:26 PM

First and second gear have faster acceleration only

Emery_ 05-30-2013 10:58 PM


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4480564)
First and second gear have faster acceleration only

Not bad though, good job on the info btw! This should clear up the misinformation... :)

Brady Black 06-12-2013 11:32 PM

[QUOTE=Carbon8;4479070]
S1 Trans Gear; 3.76, 2.269, 1.65, 1.187, 1, .843
S1 Diff; 4.44
S2 Trans Gear; 3.815, 2.26, 1.64, 1.177, 1, .832
S2 Diff 4.77

S1 Dif S1 trans; 16.6944, 10.07436, 7.326, 5.27028, 4.44, 3.74292
S1 Diff S2 Trans; 16.9386, 10.7802. 7.2816, 5.22588, 4.44, 3.69408
S2 Diff S1 Trans; 17.9352, 10.82313, 7.8705, 5.66199, 4.77, 4.02111
S2 Diff S2 Trans; 18.19755, 10.7802, 7.8228, 5.61429, 4.77, 3.96864

Wouldn't the S1 Diff with S2 Trans have a combined second gear ratio of 10.0344?
People are saying that S2 trans with S1 diff would provide better acceleration in first and second gear. The way I'm seeing it, the S2 only has a bigger first gear, so when paired with an S1 diff it will only accelerate better in first gear. (I'm not arguing for or against it, I'm just trying to solve this whole acceleration question.)

Carbon8 06-12-2013 11:55 PM

My bad on the calculation it is indeed 10.0344.

The other statement is false, it is already concluded that an S2 trans S1 diff is slower than an S1 accelerating whoever is saying otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

Also keep in mind the S2 trans is heavier than the S1

Emery_ 06-13-2013 12:10 PM

Great... lol well, this should clear things up now...

Get a S2 diff or higher final gear if you want faster acceleration if you have a S2 tranny in a S1. Unless you're going for a higher top speed...

9krpmrx8 03-22-2014 10:20 PM

Oh and in case you were wondering, the S2 trans is only 9.2lbs heavier than the S1 trans.

S1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/12748016193/
S2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/12747891425/

zachgt 10-25-2014 01:14 PM

Ok so as ive read there are pros and cons to either. Really it would be personal preference for daily driving. That being said, with the better acceleration and lighter weight of a s1 transmission but the cheaper quality would it be worth it to buy a rebuild kit for the s1 with better quality parts than OEM. Do you think doing that would let it take more abuse for occasional track driving?

TeamRX8 11-03-2014 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Carbon8 (Post 4487043)
My bad on the calculation it is indeed 10.0344.


Couldn't you at least have the courtesy of fixing your posts ...

Just curious if anyone running the S2 trans in an S1 is also using the S2 spacer plate (approx 3mm thick) between the engine & trans. I noticed when bolting up the S2 trans to my S1 engine that it took tightening up the mounting bolts to close up the last 3mm gap of clearance between the engine and trans. The gap wouldn't close up on its own (engine was out of the car in vertical position with me dropping the trans vertically down onto it). Haven't installed it yet and was wondering if I should buy and install that spacer plate.

Also, the last S1 trans I shipped weighed 78 lbs, previous one I shipped weighed 88 lbs boxed up, not sure how it is anywhere near the weight shown in those pics ....


.

9krpmrx8 11-03-2014 10:07 AM

I just installed mine yesterday along with the new clutch, new clutch slave, and the PPF from the R3 and it bolted up like normal. I will look again on the R3 but I don't recall it having a spacer. And that scale is accurate, I used a weight to check it and it was spot on with the 45lb weight. But I will try another scale to just to make sure.

Carbon8 11-04-2014 03:27 PM

No spacer on mine, in and out of the car twice now. Bolts up just fine.

ASH8 11-05-2014 03:11 AM

All S2's with 6MT and AT has the flat spacer between bell housing and rear iron fitted from factory.

9krpmrx8 11-05-2014 01:25 PM

Do you have any pics of this? I have not jacked up the R3 to look yet but I pulled my trans off of a 2009 R3 with 9,000 miles on it that is in my driveway and I am pretty sure there is no spacer. Once the rain stops I will jack it up and take a look to see if it is on the engine.

ASH8 11-05-2014 01:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I posted a blurry pic years ago here on my car...somewhere.

Even S2 Auto's have them..

Emery_ 11-06-2014 03:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 220516

Doesn't look like mine has the spacer.

paimon.soror 11-06-2014 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by ASH8 (Post 4641081)
I posted a blurry pic years ago here on my car...somewhere.

Even S2 Auto's have them..

Interesting they show a S1 shortblock in that pic lol

Smutterbutter 11-12-2014 06:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 206505

kallenthe8 11-21-2014 06:13 AM

Ok so I think I understand the number crunching and I've seen the speed chart on page 2 with the diffrent speeds, and diff. Set ups .. I am all for dropping 10-15 mph for top speed if it gets me a large boost to acceleration ... I mean when are u Ganna take a turn going 175.anyway .... But just how much acceleration are you getting.. please correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding it seems a s2 trans and diff. Combo. Would b best for acceleration right ??

TeamRX8 11-22-2014 05:49 PM

The spacer slips on the back end of the S2 engine over the trans positioning dowels and trans just sandwichs it in place when bolted up. Without it there is an open spot into the bellhousing on the driver side that small rocks etc could get in there and possibly mess with the clutch assembly. I would recommend blocking it off with some high temp racer tape if you don't have the plate.


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