SnyderMazz

A couple of notes direct from the Mazda Technical Highlight Manual:

When the engine is idiling, customers may hear stationary gear noise. This is a normal gear-type operating noise and should not be considered a servicable concern.

The rotary engine may knock or ping on acceleration for a brief second before the knock sensor operates. This " pinging " sound very familar to accessory drive belt slip or chirp. Do not mistake normal engine sounds for belt chirp.

(Im going to stress this)

WHEN STARTING THE ENGINE, ALWAYS ALLOW IT TO REACH OPERATING TEMPATURE BEFORE SHUTTING IT OFF. COLD STARTS AND MOVING THE CAR SHORT DISTANCES CAN FOUL THE SPARK PLUGS (AND FLOOD ENGINE)

The engine is replaces as an assembly and is not rebuildable at the dealership


And the big one.... (not from the manual)

One of the reasons for the horsepower change?

When the original HP came out (207 for the standard power, 247 for high power), the PCM was programmed different. To meet EPA specfications, it had to be reprogramed thus losing the horsepower. There were other factors as well, such as the problem measuring the try HP at the flywheel and such, but that had somethign to do with it.

shebam

Which in a new thread I blamed on the flashing security light. BUT -- Thursday morning I moved the car to let another out of the garage where we are visiting; only had it on for about 30 seconds so did not get up to temperature. Tonight, Friday night, I tried to start it -- it caught for a second and then died and would not start thereafter. Had it towed to SESI Mazda etc. in Ypsilanti, MI. I was confused by items in your post -- what's the cure if the problem is flooding? (I know there's another thread, will look for it, but gotta get home by end of weekend ....)

Superfan

Good deal. Do you know if any of the flashing took place at dealers or was it all done at the port? Are cars still being flashed at the port? Thanks

RenesisPower

I have done this many times pulling the car out of the garage onto the driveway for a wash on Saturday morning. The cold engine runs for less than a minute (distance of 30 feet) before I shut it down, and I have never had a flooding problem.

I know there are many threads on flooding, but I am thinking I am doing this a couple of times a week (putting the car back in the garage after a wash, again run time less than a minute) and no flooding. And my car can't be an exception.

Could there be another reason for the numerous flooding problem other owners are encountering?

khoney

No, you are tempting fate, sir. I would not get too comfortable with cold shutoffs, if I were you. At the very least, I would suggest driving your newly washed car around and showing it off until it warms up, then put it back in the garage. Trust me, you do not want to risk flooding your engine - it is a super-huge pain in the *** to get it running again (speaking from first-hand experience with an RX-7 after washing it and pulling it back in the garage).

RenesisPower

I hear you. I have read most of the notes here on flooding.

Obviously cold shut offs don't cause flooding all the time. Maybe it has something to do with ambient temps. Being in Southern California, it gts down to 48-50 at night, much warmer than most of the country.

I don't know, I am just searching for other factor contributing to the this dreaded problem.

SnyderMazz

Welcome to the nature of rotary engines. The 7's did it, and the line of rotary vehicles in the 1970s (even the pickup) did it. When Wankel started his ill-fated car company with the rotary engine, they flooded even when you ran them to operating tempature. The only 100% fix...switch it out for a piston engine.

Tempting fate is absolutly correct. You may get away with it a few times, but eventually its going to flood. My dealership as well as most dealership, who move the RX8's short distances more than anyone, are replacing spark plugs on a weekly basis. When a dealership does a warranty claim on a part we have to keep it because once the warranty claims are entered into the Mazda system, they may ask for certain parts back. So far, they have asked for all of the spark plugs we have changed back.

Sorry folks, it comes with the vehicle. Its the nature of the beast. This is what I recommend to customers with -8's that I was taught when a sales rep gave my dealership a class on the car.

1. Always let the car get to operating tempature before shutting down, especially when short driving (ie moving out of the driveway)

2. Rev the engine up to 4500 rpms for 5-10 seconds. This helps keep oil from building up on the apex seals.

3. Only use premium grade fuel. Lower grades sometimes dont burn as well. Also, the Renesis is built for high grade fuels.


So, its just not the 8's that flood its all rotarys. This sounds bad, but its the price you pay for having a rotary engine. On average, at 3000-3500RPM it takes the car 5 minutes to warm up to operating tempature and at idle I think is about 10ish.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I thought driving it under those conditions (short distances, low RPM, not warmed up) would ONLY cause the spark plugs to foul. I heard nothing about oil building up on the apex seals. If the plugs start to get fouled or the oil build up has started on the seals, is it possible to burn or clean them off with some hard (high RPM's) driving? Or is it a lost cause? Just wondering.

Doctorr

Mr. SnyderGuy-

"When Mr. Wankel started his car company......"
"Oil buildup on the apex seals......"
"Lower grades don't burn as well......"
"a sales rep gave our guys a talk....."

Man, you are seriously out of your depth, and talking out of your ***......
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doc

oosik

and why is he talking out his ****?

Doctorr

1/ Felix Wankel never ran a car company.

2/Oil does not 'build up' on apex seals.

3/Lower octane gasolines burn faster than high octanes.

4/ If your tech knowledge comes from a 'talk from a sales rep' you are already in deep doo-doo.

So all four of his points are 'a posteriori'
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doc

Ioman

So does this mean it could be possible to get an extra 10HP out of the RX8 by reprogramming the car via a new chip etc?

loco4rx8

SnyderMazz,

Can you tell us officially how much oil Mazda advises be put back in the RX-8 during an oil change? Seems some dealers are overfilling the cars, at least when you look at the dipstick, yet somewhere it was asserted that the oil should be a 1/4 inch above the full line on the dipstick.

So, should it be 4 qts or 5 qts or something in between? Thanks!

SnyderMazz

The techincal Highlight manual states:

The engine requires 4.0 quarts of 5W-20 motor oil during an oil and filter change.

(SIDE NOTE: The oil capicity for Standard Power engines is 6.4 quarts with the single oil cooler. The High Power is 7.3 with two oil coolers)

In reply to being called ***:

1. I apoligize, I thought Wankel started the company NSU who made the first rotary powered car and motorcycle. I knew that Curtis Wright made engines for aircraft and Benz made a " rotary piston engine ", but I ASSUMED that NSU was Wankels company. My mistake.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/G...s/history.html

2. Dont take this rudely, but that sales rep knows more about that engine and car than I believe you do. He is a Mazda Certified Master Techinican and he has attended all of the RX8 classes available. The only portion of his " talk " I attended was the " techincal and mechanic " part. I know sales people, and I know how they are as well and better than anyone.

3. The apex seal thing. Hell, I dont know if its true. Thats what I have been told by, again, the sale rep, my tech rep, and my master techs. From what I understand of it, over time oil will gunk up on the apex seal because oil is directly sprayed on the rotors. The oil sprayers turn on when the engine tempature is 140 degrees. Prior to 140 degrees, the sprayers dont spray to allow the engine to warm up faster. I have never heard or seen a problem with the apex seals gunking up, Im just passing along the information I have recieved.

3. Your partially right, I dont know diddly squat about gasoline. I use mid grade. I would say that almost half of the engine lights that we see are because of fuel quality. Not a week goes by that we dont see at least 2 cars that have had a misfire. Now, maybe it does burn faster and better than high grades, I dont really know. But I do know, that the cheaper the gas there is a TENDENCY to have more additives in the fuel. Mazda emissions systems are picky. I cant even count how many times I have had people call in and say " My engine light is on " and go through my little speel of " Is the car running alright? Did you just put gas in it " - if they say yes I tell them to change fuel brands and go up an octane level and see if clears up. I have had people call me back and say, " The light went out, thanks ". I have had times when people have come in a couple of days later and we check the engine light and it turns up being a misfire, 02 sensors lean or rich, and once even a CAT light. And the last thing I want to do is get into a debate over fuel. From MY experince with Mazdas, cheap fuel has tendency to set off engine lights. I honestly dont care about if it burn faster or what have you, thats my experience.


And I have said this before in several posts, this is a learning process for me and my dealership. I started posting on here to try and help you guys out, because obviously not all of the information is out there. I dont know why and I cant do anything about it. I dont work for MOA. Maybe the apex seal builduo is something he just told our dealership, I dont know. Im trying to share information. And frankly, and Im not one to cause offense or upset people, but if you cant take other points of views about subjects and do it nicely then Im not the ***. I really do not appreciate saying I am " blowing it out my *** ". Never once have I stated that I know everything about this car, and if you look at some of my other posts, I float around here so that I can learn about it as much as you guys. Its a BRAND NEW CAR to dealerships. We dont know the charcteristics of it yet and that is why I am surfing this board to better understand what kind of problems people are having, so I am bette perpared to face it if I ever see it.

I was just trying to help and pass along information.


Anyways...

As for the ECU thing, I dont know. I would imagine so, but again I refer back to the warranty issue. A guy I work with put a racing chip in his car (non mazda) and got a HP gain. It was just a factoid that I recieved during a conversation about the HP thing at work.

Doctorr, I dont mean to be rude about it, but Im just passing along info that I have recieve is all. There is no reason to be rude about it. I dont want to make enemies on this board by any means.

Doctorr

Mr. SnyderGuy,
I am sorry for my comments, I don't know why I reacted like that, it was boorish and rude, and uncalled for. (Also unusually out of character.)
You have helped the members on this forum with your informative insider posts, I hope you continue to, you are an asset to the board.
Please accept my apology.
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doc

SnyderMazz

Doc, no worries brother. You and I can both agree we have days like that and so on. You got me to get my facts right, so good came of it No harm done, and I owe an apology as well. And I plan on sticking around, Ive learned more about this car on this posting than from my dealership. So, in the words of every teenage today, its all good lol