I'm new to rotary engines and I'm looking to purchase and RX9 soon. Help please.
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I'm new to rotary engines and I'm looking to purchase and RX9 soon. Help please.
Well im not new to being an auto enthusiast by any means, but i know absolutely nothing about a rotary. Im young, but i grew up around cars and i love them. i currently drive a mustang gt thats mostly stock just exhaust and been lowered, handles pretty good. Im looking to get an rx8 within the month. Ive read some horror stories about the engine in these cars, but ive also read some good stuff. from what ive read it seems that people are having problems because they dont know how to properly maintain a rotary. so far ive read that if you start a rotary then you got to run it until its up to temp before shutting it down, otherwise it will flood. ive also read that they burn some oil since they are oil injected. are the problems people are having just because they are running them low on oil and then stuff starts wearing? ive also read that its not reccommended to run synthetic oil. what is a good oil to run then? would it be a good thing to add some lucus oil stabilizer since its so thick? i apoligize for such a long post, i just want to learn how to maintain this car before i try to purchase one. i maintain everything i own and treat it like a baby. my mustang has had nothing but pure syhnthitic ran in it and has been changed regularly and it is driven daily and gets played in sometime 
. ive also read that playing in a rotary is good to help blow out the carbon and since it likes to run at high rpms. if i get an rx8 it will be my daily driver, so is it a good car to be a daily driver? if properly taken care of how long will the engine last? i do about 80%city/20%highway driving so i dont how that would affect the car. please help me out guys and im looking forward to hopfully becoming a fellow rx8 owner.
. ive also read that playing in a rotary is good to help blow out the carbon and since it likes to run at high rpms. if i get an rx8 it will be my daily driver, so is it a good car to be a daily driver? if properly taken care of how long will the engine last? i do about 80%city/20%highway driving so i dont how that would affect the car. please help me out guys and im looking forward to hopfully becoming a fellow rx8 owner.
^ My 8 is my DD also... do about the same type of driving u do.. maybe 70% city/30% highway. My car is at 40k miles right now and no problems what so ever. Just keep up with the maintenance.. its not hard to do at all. Most ppl run 5w30 BTW.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Northern Virginia
You've hit on the most freauently asked questions:
1. How long will the engine last?
2. What oil should I use?
3. What will my mileage be?
Get ready for some "Search, noob" rants. If only the search engine worked. But in the meantime:
For 1, nobody knows. Some last a long time, but there were a lot of failures early on - mostly in ATs in hot climates. You need to spend a while browsing this site to get a feel for it.
For 2, look for the "Cumulative synthetic oil thread" and several hundred related threads. Also, look for some posts that have the oil chart from the Australian owner's manual.
For 3, IMHO mileage is pretty much like any other car. Look at the EPA mileage numbers for the 8 and for your current car, see what mileage you're currently getting, then interpolate.
You asked about using Lucas oil stabilizer. I would not. There may be some posts on that particular product. Just use whatever oil you decide is best, and don't put any oil additives in. You might consider adding premix to the fuel - there's a long sticky on that. And some folks like to put a good injector cleaner into the gas every now and then. But no snake oil in the oil.
Ken
1. How long will the engine last?
2. What oil should I use?
3. What will my mileage be?
Get ready for some "Search, noob" rants. If only the search engine worked. But in the meantime:
For 1, nobody knows. Some last a long time, but there were a lot of failures early on - mostly in ATs in hot climates. You need to spend a while browsing this site to get a feel for it.
For 2, look for the "Cumulative synthetic oil thread" and several hundred related threads. Also, look for some posts that have the oil chart from the Australian owner's manual.
For 3, IMHO mileage is pretty much like any other car. Look at the EPA mileage numbers for the 8 and for your current car, see what mileage you're currently getting, then interpolate.
You asked about using Lucas oil stabilizer. I would not. There may be some posts on that particular product. Just use whatever oil you decide is best, and don't put any oil additives in. You might consider adding premix to the fuel - there's a long sticky on that. And some folks like to put a good injector cleaner into the gas every now and then. But no snake oil in the oil.
Ken
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,840
Likes: 13
From: Indialantic, Florida
Alright, I wasn't going to post this, but since the OP has asked some questions relating to this.....I will. There is of course a lot of info below, some I really agree with and some may be sort of meh. But, it's a decent read and you can take from it what you will. This was a thread that HiFlite999 started and has sort of been updating the first post as suggestions come in. Again, there will always be disagreements, but it's a good start for anyone wondering.
HiFlite999’s summary roughly estimated order of importance:
(1) Make sure you have the MSP-16 factory reflash done. It ups the oil injection rates and lowers the radiator fan turn on speeds. Simple and free at the dealer. [The dealer should also be able to tell you from Mazda's database if it's already been done on your car; my dealer didn't bother to add the door sticker.] This isn't really applicable on newer years.
[1b] [Avoid the flooding issue by not shutting off a cold engine. Some report that the MSP-16 fixes this issue, but better safe than sorry. I've had no problems with trips as short as a mile, but I don't start a cold engine to just move it 20 ft in the driveway.]
(2) Add 4-6 oz of a good, non-marine, 2-stroke premix [like for snowmobiles, motorcycles, or lawn equipment] to the gas tank at each fill up to give some extra apex seal oiling. [The whole synthetic vs. non-synthetic discussion is full of unresolvable controversy. It was pointed out that marine-use premix chemistry is constrained by what is acceptable to the EPA wrt lake water contamination. There is general consensus though that a little oil in the gas is a good idea.] I'm playing it safe by using the Idemitsu premix designed specifically for rotaries
(3) Restrict rpm to below [~4k] until the oil is fully warmed. Gauges are a help here. [I was trying to keep costs in mind, but having at least a real water temperature gauge is almost mandatory. It allows one to see trouble coming. A single excursion into the 240-250F water temp range may cause water seal failure and an engine rebuild. Oil temps will generally stabilize to within +-10 deg F of the water temp. A way around the installation hassle of a "real gauge" is to use the OBD readout of water temps that every modern car has. I've had good luck with this $170 unit - http://www.scangauge.com/products/ - but there are others. The ScanGauge also has features like real-time MPG, trip meter, miles left to empty, and so on, plus of course lets you diagnose and reset any check-engine-light conditions.]
(13) Keep the ignition coils and plugs "fresh". The non-stealth solution is something like the BHR coils ... potentially doing a swap back to stock if needed. [Add ignition wires to the list. Quite a few problems reported here relate to the ignition system. Ignition problems can also create other problems such as flooding, cat failure, detonation, and in worse cases, apex seal failure. It's hard to define exactly what "fresh" means and it depends on your highway/city driving ratio, but several have suggested 30k miles as a good change interval.] It's been suggested in another thread that adding a few washers underneath the stock coils where they mount to the plate may allow them to run cooler. Also, RX-8 plugs are very old school, using smooth round head to connect to the plug wires (think Briggs & Stratton) vs. the screw-thread like kind all other modern cars use. This can create higher resistances and sparking to unwanted places which may also effect coil life. Keep the connections clean and secure.
(4) Use a magnetic oil pan drain plug; just makes sense.
(5) Install Mazmart's oil pressure modification ($55). If you're cautious, wait until after this summer and see what the early adapters report. It's unlikely the dealer will notice in the event of a warranty claim. I've had no problems to date with this mod, even with oil pressures reaching 110 psi, there have been no leaks. Racing Beat sells a less-aggressive increase version for ~$100.
(6) Run a heavier weight oil. I'm now using 15W-40 Valvoline Blue for its wear properties. Personally, I wouldn't use over a 30W without the oil pressure mod. [Again, synthetic vs. non or the particular brand is less important than going to a heavier weight.] The Valvoline Blue (diesel) oil should not be used with a cat in place. The ZDDP antiwear agents are not Cat-safe! I've switched to a 10W-30.
((7)) Stealth mode: Let the dealer do the oil change at 7k miles with the 5W-20. Since only about 55% of the oil volume is really exchanged, consider it a "flush" and change the oil yourself soon after, using a pump or a 'rocking technique' to get more oil out. Then change again on your own half-way between the official 7k interval.
Do the oil change every 3-5k miles....what the hell, it don't cost that much!
(8) Run above 7500 rpm on occasion to make sure the intake manifold valves get exercised and the intake ports see flow. [It was suggested that putting a ~8k rev limit on yourself is good for engine life. I'd add, especially so without the oil pressure mod.]
(9) Install the Mazmart modded water pump (~$300). It's gonna move more water, especially at high rpm. Again, in the event of problems, the dealer will never notice.
(11) If you're driving in winter, particularly a lot of short trips, consider blocking off one or maybe both oil coolers with a piece of cardboard or foam to reduce water buildup in the oil. Monitor temps!
(10) Open up the cooling outlets in the front wheel wells to improve air flow. I'd now suggest doing this only if you're in a warm climate. Here in Michigan, cold oil seems to be a bigger problem than too-hot oil.
(12) Mazmart 170 deg thermostat for the hotter climates. [Remains somewhat controversial. Benefits and drawbacks likely vary depending on your climate and driving profile.]I tried this and then removed it, because it had a negative effect on my gas mileage. Also, unlike the 3 year-old stock thermostat, the Mazmart one had a rusty valve plate after only a few months of use.
[x1] [Install an oil catch-can in the line between the crankcase vent and the intake manifold. Oil gunk has been reported as coming along this line and gumming up the intake system I understand this problem only applies to 2004-5 models. 2006 and later have the breather lines routed to a point past the throttle body/MAF where it's not as big a deal.]
[x2] [Do the e-pellet mod to eliminate that bypass in the oil system. (This requires a little more "mechanic-ing" than the other mods mentioned above.)]
[x3] [Early replacement of transmission and differential fluids]
Other remarks: I suspect that some reported issues may come from over-filling the oil. The marks on the dipstick are calibrated for measurement with a hot engine after waiting just a few minutes. (See owner's manual for details.) If one fills to the top mark with a cold engine, there's too much oil in the system. Don't fill above the 1/2 quart "low" mark with a cold engine. I also notice in the "new engine club" stories, that a remarkable number were members of the red-line-a-day club as well. I don't think it's a coincidence.
Comments?
I edited the above based on comments received so far, indicating the edits in [brackets]. I rearranged the order, but it's still somewhat of a guess, and is going to depend on your driving situation, cash flow, and the miles already on your engine. Also, if you're running forced induction or with other major mods ... all bets are off, but most of those in that game, know that already.
If you want to comment on the list, or maybe even add something, then go and put it in the original thread please.
Just do an advanced search, select threads started by "HiFlite999" and you'll see it.
I shall now go back and change the color on those I feel are most important for "new" people!
HiFlite999’s summary roughly estimated order of importance:
(1) Make sure you have the MSP-16 factory reflash done. It ups the oil injection rates and lowers the radiator fan turn on speeds. Simple and free at the dealer. [The dealer should also be able to tell you from Mazda's database if it's already been done on your car; my dealer didn't bother to add the door sticker.] This isn't really applicable on newer years.
[1b] [Avoid the flooding issue by not shutting off a cold engine. Some report that the MSP-16 fixes this issue, but better safe than sorry. I've had no problems with trips as short as a mile, but I don't start a cold engine to just move it 20 ft in the driveway.]
(2) Add 4-6 oz of a good, non-marine, 2-stroke premix [like for snowmobiles, motorcycles, or lawn equipment] to the gas tank at each fill up to give some extra apex seal oiling. [The whole synthetic vs. non-synthetic discussion is full of unresolvable controversy. It was pointed out that marine-use premix chemistry is constrained by what is acceptable to the EPA wrt lake water contamination. There is general consensus though that a little oil in the gas is a good idea.] I'm playing it safe by using the Idemitsu premix designed specifically for rotaries
(3) Restrict rpm to below [~4k] until the oil is fully warmed. Gauges are a help here. [I was trying to keep costs in mind, but having at least a real water temperature gauge is almost mandatory. It allows one to see trouble coming. A single excursion into the 240-250F water temp range may cause water seal failure and an engine rebuild. Oil temps will generally stabilize to within +-10 deg F of the water temp. A way around the installation hassle of a "real gauge" is to use the OBD readout of water temps that every modern car has. I've had good luck with this $170 unit - http://www.scangauge.com/products/ - but there are others. The ScanGauge also has features like real-time MPG, trip meter, miles left to empty, and so on, plus of course lets you diagnose and reset any check-engine-light conditions.]
(13) Keep the ignition coils and plugs "fresh". The non-stealth solution is something like the BHR coils ... potentially doing a swap back to stock if needed. [Add ignition wires to the list. Quite a few problems reported here relate to the ignition system. Ignition problems can also create other problems such as flooding, cat failure, detonation, and in worse cases, apex seal failure. It's hard to define exactly what "fresh" means and it depends on your highway/city driving ratio, but several have suggested 30k miles as a good change interval.] It's been suggested in another thread that adding a few washers underneath the stock coils where they mount to the plate may allow them to run cooler. Also, RX-8 plugs are very old school, using smooth round head to connect to the plug wires (think Briggs & Stratton) vs. the screw-thread like kind all other modern cars use. This can create higher resistances and sparking to unwanted places which may also effect coil life. Keep the connections clean and secure.
(4) Use a magnetic oil pan drain plug; just makes sense.
(5) Install Mazmart's oil pressure modification ($55). If you're cautious, wait until after this summer and see what the early adapters report. It's unlikely the dealer will notice in the event of a warranty claim. I've had no problems to date with this mod, even with oil pressures reaching 110 psi, there have been no leaks. Racing Beat sells a less-aggressive increase version for ~$100.
(6) Run a heavier weight oil. I'm now using 15W-40 Valvoline Blue for its wear properties. Personally, I wouldn't use over a 30W without the oil pressure mod. [Again, synthetic vs. non or the particular brand is less important than going to a heavier weight.] The Valvoline Blue (diesel) oil should not be used with a cat in place. The ZDDP antiwear agents are not Cat-safe! I've switched to a 10W-30.
((7)) Stealth mode: Let the dealer do the oil change at 7k miles with the 5W-20. Since only about 55% of the oil volume is really exchanged, consider it a "flush" and change the oil yourself soon after, using a pump or a 'rocking technique' to get more oil out. Then change again on your own half-way between the official 7k interval.
Do the oil change every 3-5k miles....what the hell, it don't cost that much!
(8) Run above 7500 rpm on occasion to make sure the intake manifold valves get exercised and the intake ports see flow. [It was suggested that putting a ~8k rev limit on yourself is good for engine life. I'd add, especially so without the oil pressure mod.]
(9) Install the Mazmart modded water pump (~$300). It's gonna move more water, especially at high rpm. Again, in the event of problems, the dealer will never notice.
(11) If you're driving in winter, particularly a lot of short trips, consider blocking off one or maybe both oil coolers with a piece of cardboard or foam to reduce water buildup in the oil. Monitor temps!
(10) Open up the cooling outlets in the front wheel wells to improve air flow. I'd now suggest doing this only if you're in a warm climate. Here in Michigan, cold oil seems to be a bigger problem than too-hot oil.
(12) Mazmart 170 deg thermostat for the hotter climates. [Remains somewhat controversial. Benefits and drawbacks likely vary depending on your climate and driving profile.]I tried this and then removed it, because it had a negative effect on my gas mileage. Also, unlike the 3 year-old stock thermostat, the Mazmart one had a rusty valve plate after only a few months of use.
[x1] [Install an oil catch-can in the line between the crankcase vent and the intake manifold. Oil gunk has been reported as coming along this line and gumming up the intake system I understand this problem only applies to 2004-5 models. 2006 and later have the breather lines routed to a point past the throttle body/MAF where it's not as big a deal.]
[x2] [Do the e-pellet mod to eliminate that bypass in the oil system. (This requires a little more "mechanic-ing" than the other mods mentioned above.)]
[x3] [Early replacement of transmission and differential fluids]
Other remarks: I suspect that some reported issues may come from over-filling the oil. The marks on the dipstick are calibrated for measurement with a hot engine after waiting just a few minutes. (See owner's manual for details.) If one fills to the top mark with a cold engine, there's too much oil in the system. Don't fill above the 1/2 quart "low" mark with a cold engine. I also notice in the "new engine club" stories, that a remarkable number were members of the red-line-a-day club as well. I don't think it's a coincidence.
Comments?
I edited the above based on comments received so far, indicating the edits in [brackets]. I rearranged the order, but it's still somewhat of a guess, and is going to depend on your driving situation, cash flow, and the miles already on your engine. Also, if you're running forced induction or with other major mods ... all bets are off, but most of those in that game, know that already.
If you want to comment on the list, or maybe even add something, then go and put it in the original thread please.
Just do an advanced search, select threads started by "HiFlite999" and you'll see it.
I shall now go back and change the color on those I feel are most important for "new" people!
Last edited by Mazurfer; Aug 1, 2010 at 05:28 PM.
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