Help please! I think I'm screwed!
 

Today I made my weekly appearance at the body shop to see the progress of my car and found the dashboard, carpet, molding, seats and all kinds of crap removed from the interior of my car. The back seat is used as a storage area for pulled parts. It looks like a disaster. Until this point I was willing to accept the work on my car as being a typical rebuild. It appeared to all be on the outside from the firewall forward. Now that they have demolished my sacred pristine interior, I'm scared to death I will find all kinds of crap wrong with it when I get it back and after I drive it for a while. The cost to rebuild has now, after supplements, have reached over 75% which I was originally told equals a total.

I really would like to know what I could do at this point, if anything! Several of you have already made suggestions and I have listened to everyone of you. However, this seems to have escalated as of today. One suggestion was to hire an attorney and until this point I have not considered this option but now I'm wondering if i should.

Am I over reacting or is my fear justified? Can I go to the insurance company now and demand a "Total" since the teardown is complete and the restoration will begin? Can I demand anything without getting blasted with high insurance premiums?

I think I’m screwed! I think I need a drink!

Related previous threads:

DSC or NOT! Not a choice for me again.
https://www.rx8club.com/polls-70/dsc-not-not-choice-me-again-44379/

2 weeks till I get her back!
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/2-weeks-till-i-get-her-back-49249/

Abbid, logic tells me your words are wise and I know you are correct. The little gremlin on my sholder is sticking a pitchfork in my emotions.

The insurance company has already said they are paying diminished value. Don't know what it will be yet but they are supposed to send it to me next week.

Yep, this is part of the process. You shouldn't have gone down and looked at your baby like that. It'd be like watching your wife/mother being cut open for surgery... traumatic!

Hopefully it'll work out ok. If you went to a good shop and get a good feel from the folks there, chances are everything will be fine.

Those pictures made me want to cry....dont know if I could stand seeing my 8 in that condition. Hoping for the best for you.

Omi is correct, ripping the dash apart is part of the process. Sucks dosen't it.
I was looking at the firewall and noticed and not surprised that the attachment points for the LHD are the same on the right side of the car. You havent though of a RHD conversion have you?
I know the part availbility here in the States for RHD is non existant, but would still be cool to see.

Anyone know the laws on RHD conversions?

Ouch. Good luck man.

^^^ What CGRX said. I noticed that too. :eek:

OMG, I think I need another beer! :eek:

I am about to embark on the body shop adventure too! I was rearended on I-75 by three vehicles...

OHHHHH MAMA! My heart bleeds for you man.

WTF? I thought the frame of the car went all the way to the front bumper. If they have to join the frame again, sell it. You have nothing forward of the firewall. :confused:

OOOOOK....word of advice for all of you doing body work or considering it. There are very few good body shops and fewer who care enough to make your car 100%. Don't mean to shock anyone or worry you silver 8, but its true....Most car owners wont be taking thier cars apart...so you won't see bent metal or anything drastic like that, you do on the other hand want to make sure that all damaged parts are replaced, not repaired, and that the paint and body guys finish the car correctly. I work on paint all day and I can ALWAYS tell when a car has been repainted because of imperfections in the clear or base coat, bad body filler work, or insufficient dilligence in masking the rest of the car. Make sure the shop has a good reputation and that they are willing to stand behind their work. After the work is completed tell them that you need a couple days to decide if you are satisfied. Show the car to all your friends or take it to a high-end or custom paint or detail shop to examine it for flaws....I might be cynical but I have seen too much bad work come out of body shops, even good ones....

By the way Air Force, that why my car is parked in a safe place during the snowy season...good luck guys...

They are already going to give you $$$ for diminished value? Both times I was able to go after diminished value I had to wait until the vehicles were repaired. Then an inspector/appraiser with the insurance company met w/me and the body shop people.

The vehicles were poked and prodded by the appraiser. Everything and anything that could have indicated that the vehicle was in an accident was looked for - nuts and bolts that were painted; over spray from paint; the original door stickers (mine were painted over in each case!), stamped on vins missing from body panels...stuff I cant even remember but stuff you and I would take for granted.

Anything that was not "perfect" in the eyes of the insurance appraiser had to be corrected by the body shop people. That was the easy part. Hell, the appraiser even wanted me to contact Chevrolet and see if I could get the door stickers! It was then up TO ME to find somebody that would give me a diminished value estimate. Body shops DO NOT believe in diminished value. They are in the business to make cars identical to the way they were when they rolled off the assembly line - we all know that 's impossible. Diminished value is taboo word in any body shop I've ever been to.

If you have to go through the above all I can say is good luck. If you don't then tell me who your insurance company is :)

I still don't know why they didn't total your car. Are you in a rental car? If you are that's probably at least another $2k by now.

Last vehicle I had a claim for was worth about $12k. It took almost $9500 to repair. My rental car for the repair period $1750 or so. Add it up and tell me why insurance companies work the way they do. :confused:

Again, good luck to you Silver.

1. Thanks Bat... good advice. I THINK all damaged parts are new Mazda factory parts. I have a copy of the extensive work order and supplements. I've seen many of the new parts lying around the area.

2. I chose this shop because it is the shop used by the local Mazda dealer and after looking around the shop I saw mostly very expensive cars. It is one of the more expensive locations in the area. My insurance company did not have a problem with my choice and did not even suggest I go to any other location.

3. Good suggestion - I addressed this to my contact at the shop and he assured me that they do not tape up around the door areas and such because that leaves a tapeline. They strip off the molding and make a smooth transiition. I don't remember his terminology but I'm sure you understand.

4. I was wondering how to handle this. Was not sure if I had to sign something to drive off the lot or if I could spend some time with it. I like your suggestion of taking a couple days. Maybe I should use this time to take an extended trip on a weekend and see what shakes loose. The body shop did tell me that they do guarantee their work and if something is not correct they will fix it. What I'm afraid of is that 3 or 4 months down the road a bolt shakes loose and a rattle appears or there is a bug in the display (had that on a Maxima, drove me crazy for 4 years).

1. I spoke to the insurance company earlier in the week. My claim rep made a visit to the shop to check on my car and told me they didn't want to write a lot of checks and that he was waiting to see if more supplements were coming from the shop. He insisted they were going to write me a check this week. We will see. I'm not sure I want to cash it in until I’m satisfied though. I wonder if signing the check is an acknowledgement of accepting the work before the job is complete? :eek:

2. This one scares me. I guess on receiving the car I should take it to a dealer and have them look it over. Maybe even get an appraisal from them on trading it in and see what they offer me. A dealer will nitpick you to death on those details.

3. My insurance company is calculating this.

4. The shop requested I get back to them. They were interested in what the diminished value was.

5. My insurance policy states: 30 days or $900, whichever comes first. The rental car was around $26 a day and I had it for about 28 days because the first day counts even though it was closing time when I picked it up. The last day was on Sunday and they were closed so I had to turn it in early! My son is home from college so having a car to drive has not been an issue.

-----

I really appreciate all you guys’ suggestions. I'm much smarter going in and talking to the body shop and my insurance company because of this forum. It's kind of like having a big brother to help you make good decisions. I'm sure it benefits many others as well.

This is the first I read of your troubles. I am very sorry to hear about your RX8. In reading your other threads about a place to learn your car, control at the limits, and catching it when things go bad, do a few autocrosses. When you autocross you don't go too fast (maybe 60 mph) but you get plenty sideways and learn to catch it in mid-slide.

Anyway, I wish you the best on getting your baby back!

Sorry I did not read the entire thread but wanted to drop a note to let you know that if the body shop is reputable your car will be fine.

Cars are just parts that are put together and with the proper attention can be taken apart and put back together without any issues.

Best of luck !!

Thanks Nabil. The main thing I want to do when I get her back is pamper her for a while. Maybe in the fall I will look into the autocross.

Update!
 

I was told today that I should be getting her by Friday week, the 21st.

I sat down with my insurance company and gave them in writing my concerns about possible problems down the road.

He figured my diminished value was around $2100 and is going to send it out this week. Does that sound about right for the amount?

Sorry to add to the negative side, Silver, but if it was my car, I would take that diminished value check, cash it and immediately sell the car. You have visited the car repeatedly and expressed all the concerns of a fellow perfectionist. Even if the repair is comprehensive and excellent, it will always be in your head that there are problems (whether there are or not). A differnet owner would not have the basis of comparison to pre-repair condition so could be perfectly happy with the car. You'll be way happier and carefree in a new car.

HMMMM i see the frame is gone from the front ??? im not shure but is what they are doing not the same as welding a whole new front on the car ?. Im not shure but i think when they have cut the car in half basicaly and welded a new on in it is to be titled as a reconstruced total ?? If the frame was striaghtend i think its not considerd that but when you cut it all out and put new in ???? the day you get it back trade it in befor it shows up on carfax LOL

yes.. sell that car.. and get a new one..
that shop could and should take better care of your parts and interior.. Yes it had to come out.. But should be wrappend inplastic and stored out of the car in a cleaner space.. Just the insode your your dash cluster will be full of dust now..

And yes.. Sell it.. and Buy an 05 ..

I would for sure sell it. I had most of my interior ripped out one time. All of my bolts were just thrown in a box. The car was put back together and I can't even tell... (except for those 3 gold bolts rolling in the passenger door :confused: )

Update: 1/12/05
 

Actually, these guys are doing what appears to me to be a very good job. They called me and asked if I wanted to come down and look because they had most of the structural welding done. The fenders and hood are put on to make sure all is lining up properly and will be coming off. They have been pretty meticulous about this part of the process. She is starting to take shape again. :)

It is very interesting watching it come together. I post my images just incase someone else is interested it this process. I see some members had no idea how the car is put together.

The shop has been very good about letting me visit my baby in the ICU. :)

ETA has been extended to Jan 28... 15 days.

Silver, thanks for taking the time to take pics and share with us. We all appreciate it and learning from it.

Actually, she wasn't cut but was separated from the unibody (not sure if that is correct spelling). The welds are drilled out and the parts are discarded. All of the parts (black) that you see in the images above (Update 1/12) are new Mazda parts. It is being reconstructed to Mazda specs. They map out all the strategic points and lock them in place. Then weld after they are secure. It's kind of fun to watch this come together.

Cool, I thought someone would appreciate it. Actually, it's therapy! :D I noticed in your first post you had no idea how the car was put together. Neither did I! Stay tuned, I'll keep posting until I get her back.

Update: 1/18/05
 

Well, it's coming right along. Still looking at end of month. These guys are really good. They call me up and say, "Hey, you may want to take some pics". Most places really don't want you to go back into the shop.

Silver, what RX-8 organ is lying on the windshield?

I "believe" that be a wiring harness. If you look closely, you will see it goes into the firewall.

Right. I see it better now. Thanks.

Wow, SilverEIGHT, I'm impressed that you're taking this so calmly. It must be very difficult to do that, however fascinating it all is. I have assisted with surgeries on other people's pets, and was able to find it all fascinating and educational. I doubt I would handle it so easily if it were my own. I know it's just a car, but dammit it's YOUR car. Sniff!

The fact that the shop's inviting you in at regular stages to see, inspect and even photograph the many phases of reconstruction seems very encouraging. Only a shop that was thoroughly confident in the quality of their work would do that. I think you chose a good one.

Good luck, February's comin'!

Good to see that all of the unibody parts are factory new. You never get the same integrity or crashworthiness when pieces are just straightened.

Thanks for noticing. Believe me, it took a LONG time to calm down. I can say that this forum is the best thing that happened to me during my crisis. I don't know any other place I could have turned for such a collection of awesome people with a tremendous amount of collective knowledge. This forum makes you feel so much smarter when you talk with you insurance company, body shop or even making connections. Earlier today I communicated with a new member online, "Marietta 8", that is going to give my car a good looking over when I get it back. He has a Mazda service center and comes HIGHLY recommended. This forum is without a doubt my key to calmness.

I agree. The more time I spend there looking over my car and talking with my job manager the better I feel about the reconstruction. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it all comes together but I don't think I could have chosen a better shop. If anyone in my area (Gwinnett County, GA) is interested in the name and location I will be happy to share the info with you.

Update: 1/21/05
 

Today is exterior paint day. All parts have been attached except for the nose. The car is moved into a controlled environment for removing dust and controlling temperature. The guy painting will work at a normal temperature. After the paint is applied the heat will be turned up to about 170 degrees for a short period of time. The paint will be a flat silver color. When finished, the car will be clear coated. I'm still looking at Friday 28th.

EDIT: Addumdum
The shop just sent me pics of the first paint. Added images. :D

I'm really starting to get excited for you. So far so good!

Update: 1/21/05 -2
 

All painted now. Time to start finalizing this puppy. I think the paint process is very interesting. Notice the dull finish on the previous images and the gloss on the clear coat final. She's starting to look beautiful again. :D

She's lookin good!

Great to see your 8 is nearly back to normal. It's been interesting to see the photos of its progress.

This is like a little episode of Overhaulin.

Hey Silver - glad to see your baby is getting back together. The pictures look like they are putting her together nicely with even gaps between body and hood.

Update: 1/28/05
 

Well, today is the "scheduled" day I'm supposed to pick her up but I really don't think it's going to happen. When I looked at it earlier in the week I could tell there were still a few missing items under the hood. The paint integrity was very good. I noticed a few missing bolts, loose battery cover, loose intake & missing support, the dashboard display housing thingy was not secure. Those were just the things I could see. I talked with Charlie at Mazcare about taking it over for a total going over before I sign off.

The shop said, on Tuesday, parts are on order and they didn't think it would be ready today. Which is just as well because we are expecting an ice storm rolling in around 9PM today. I wouldn't be able to drive or spend anytime detailing her anyway. I made sure the shop understood I was not in a rush and that quality of repair was most important.

I'll keep this thread up-to-date and expect to get her back next week... sometime!

- EDIT -
Just spoke to the shop and was told that she's at Mazda and is not drivable... :confused: They are still waiting on parts and are thinking I should be able to pick it up on Monday. Not getting my hopes up.

Glad to see that you are continuing to be patient. It will pay off for you. Just hang in there.

Yeah SilverEIGHT, you're doing a good job being patient and optimistic. As long as they make sure it's done right, it will be worth it.

Update: 1/31/05
 

Well, no car today but I did get two checks in the mail from my insurance company. One to pay for the car at $19,055 and the other for diminished value at $2,172. I may be wrong but I don't think they are including the work done at the Mazda place. Guess I'll have to beat on the Insurance's door for that. Couple questions:

1. When do you give the shop the check? Can I drive it somewhere and get it checked out by a third party (Mazcare) before I hand over the doe!

2. Is there any reason to hold onto the diminished value check until I know everything is taken care of?

I think I should be getting a call from the shop tomorrow. I'm trying real hard to keep from calling them. I know I've pushed them to the limit. The last conversation was very short and more like don't call us... we'll call you! They didn't like any suggestions at that point. I can understand, when it gets to the fine tuning they don't need an anal retentive jerk telling them something is not fixed when they are not finished.

Silver, I don't think they will give you the car until you paid. I would do the following since this is major bucks:

- Ask the insurance before you pick it up if they will send an inspector to make sure the job was done right since I am sure they sent you to this guy.

- Make sure you are satisfied yourself with the final product and bring a second set of eyes with you.

- Carefully go through everything fit an finish. Tug at things and bang on things to make sure it is done well and nothing is rattling. Even check the things they did not fix i.e. Trunk compartment fit and finish.

- Ask them to put it on a hoist so you can see the work done underneath the car and check for any leaks and fitment

- Start it up and make sure all the electronics work i.e. heat, a/c, rear defog etc...

- Take if for a good 10-15 minute test drive with one of their people and your second set of eyes. Make sure the car feels solid balance, no vibrations, no pulling one way or the other under acceleration or breaking.

- Take it up to 80-90 MPH making sure the car feels sure footed

- Beat the car up with strong acceleration and breaking and quick lane changes ensuring the car fells right

- If all OK, tell them to mark on the bill that they are not aware of any issues whatsoever with the car. You write on both copies of the invoice (your copy and theirs) that payment is conditional upon successful evaluation/inspection by Mazcare which will be at your expense as they are the experts and you are not.

- Pay Mazcare the few hundred dollars for this Mazcare check-up and make sure you indicate to them that you want them to be very picky and you want to know everything with a full written report.

If any problems, go back to the sjop and tell them to fix, pronto!

Always make sure your freind (second pair of eyes) is always with you at all times in case he needs to be used as a witness down the road for any law suit you may lodge in case they won't fix the car .

Be cool, patient and very thorough throught the entire process. And most importantly, you know the car won't be 100% as original, but settle for nothing less than 99%!

All the best. Good luck and keep us posted.

Shamblerock, how much do I owe you for this consultation? :) I cannot thank you enough for your information. Its post like yours that make this forum a truly important part of our RX8 experience. I will follow your suggestions, as they are very sound. I can’t wait to see the faces of my friend and the guy from shop when I hit 90 on the entrance ramp to I-85! :eek:

Two things that were mentioned to me from a co-worker I think are important to anyone else that is interested in this process:

1. Don't pick your car up on an overcast day or when it is raining because you can't see flaws in the paint.

2. Do not wax your car for 2 or 3 months after you get it back because the paint needs to cure. He wasn't sure if this applied to my particular paint but that in general this is the process he follows.

Silver, it is my pleasure indeed. I just hope they cooperate with your game plan! When they show resistance, remind them that it is a huge amount of money involved (almost as much as the car is retail less depreciation) and that they should not be concerned with you checking the car out reasonably thorough. In fact they should be proud of the work they did and encourage you to test it out because they are confident they did a good job. Afterall, they stated the car was fixed in its entirety and not partially fixed. Therefore, wouldn't they test drive it and thoroughly inspect it if it was their car?

If they play hardball and tell you to hand over the funds before you drive, contact the insurance company from the shop and advise them accordingly. This will put pressure on the shop and they may reconsider.

As for your freind's advise, I agree 100%.

If it rains, just tell them that something came up at work and you will not be able to make it that day. Never tell them why you really don't wan't to pick the car up.

Good luck.

Silver, by the way please realize that you hold all the cards and they should entertain any reasonable request you make. Why? Because:

- They already are out of pocket from all the parts they bought and all the labour they put into the repairs

- They acted on instructions from your Insurance company in good faith on the assumption they will get paid in due course

- You are the holder of their check

- If they get pissed off with anybody, it will be the insurance company for not paying them directly

- Therefore, the insurtance company is the obligor here and they need to be satisfied the work was done properly by either sending an inspector or getting the nod from you.

Just a few thoughts for fine tuning the frame of mind you should have.

Awesome! I'm locked and loaded. Thanks!

Update: 02/01/05
 

The plot thickens...

- Called my insurance adjuster and he is no longer with the company. Was told to call his boss at the main office.

- Called the body shop. Because the car was sent to Mazda for work on the engine the cost has now gone up to, drum role . . . . . . . . >>Crash<< . . . $23,319. :eek:

- Now the shop has to call the insurance company for an additional $3770.

I tried from the beginning to get the SOB's to total my car, but NOOOOO! I didn't know what I was talking about! :mad: I could have been driving a brand new 04 for this price! Since all the work has been done (except Mazda) I don't guess there is a dang thing I can do. :confused:

Looks like Thursday to get it back. We'll see.

Time to get a lawyer and get the insurance company to replace your '8 with a *new* one, perhaps??? :eek: