lorryload

Ok so this is a long post so I suppose I'll ask the question I'd like an opinion on first - for those of you interested read on below for a little more background on my heartache! I have a 4 year and 11 month old RX8 (european 231BHP model) with 45,000 miles and Mazda have just agreed to replace the engine under warranty. I am of course delighted with this. The question I have is - what exactly is the story with the warranty extension that everyone talks about and what does it cover? It is perhaps a little irrelevant at this stage but for all my searching I can't find any sort of confirmation as to what is applicable to european cars. Also, I am concerned it could be a problem with the PCM, which costs as much as an engine and Mazda say they won't cover this (see below for why).

A little background…

Car was having bad starting problems and power seemed to be tailing off from what it used to be. Established it was regularly partially flooding (accellerator depress, crank, no start, remove foot, crank, start). Got car serviced (incl new plugs, coil check etc) All ok. Few days later was getting very rough running at times with car wanting to stall - after running perfectly 10 - 15 minutes. Garage diagnosed catalytic converter about to die and suggested I install the new starter system / battery available for rx8's along with new Cat. Request to Mazda resulted in them picking up 70% of the cost which I was happy enough with (car is almost 5 years old and out of warranty). Car was running much smoother after this and starting better but reporting a misfire. Garage replaces coils, again car runs slightly better but still misfire report which they cannot clear. Garage tells me Mazda UK have had one instance of this problem which was solved by replacing the PCM. Got them to do a compression test and it, fails (below minimum, don't recall what). So after a request, as of yesterday a new engine is on it's way. Looking forward to having my horsepower back

Anyone out there have similar problems? Anyone manage to have so much success with getting mazda to pay for the work?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Extended Warranty ?

If you're talking about the Engine one, it covers the Engine itself (Short block only) for up to 100,000 miles or 8 years. Whichever comes first.

When I said Short Block only that means, its REALLY the engine only, meaning it does NOT cover Water pump, Intake Manifold, etc. So its JUST the engine itself.

Misfire happens, but if its too much you have a problem.

You should try to request to get your money back(for the CAT and Starter) since those were not the caused of the problem. Yes, Mazda covered 70% already, but try to get them to cover 100%, cuz you paid for something that didnt work(not the problem)

teknics

the nondisappearing misfire code with a decent running engine means the NVRAM should be cleared. That may stop the code from happening, something of glitch sort of.

either way if it fails a comp test its bad no matter what, but make sure with the new motor they know how to reset the NVRAM or youre in for a whole new level of confusing problems.

kevin.

lorryload

thanks guys. anything you reckon i should be doing while they have the engine out? Or something i should make sure they check? Or something i should check when i get the car back?

Laurie

O'Renesis

While they have the engine out have the clutch replaced or at least have the mechanic check the state of the clutch and any other parts related to it.
They should have reimbursed you the cost of the parts they have used already, after all they were not the issue.
Mazda Ireland have not offered an extended warranty for our RX8's but you can buy an extended warranty from the dealer. Which garage/dealer is handling your problem, Duffy Motors? maybe?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

If I had the engine out, on a car that old, I'd put a new clutch in.

The Mazda parts are probably more money than a reputable aftermarket kit.

S

lorryload

So only mazda america gave the extended warranty for the engines…hmmm suppose I should be glad there was no issue over replacing mine. I would have fought to the death though if it came to it!

Car is with Mazda Belgard, and to be fair to them they have been very good - think they could've screwed me over for a lot more diagnostic time if they wanted to. Re the starter system, this was needed anyway as she was having big problems starting, although the low compression wouldn't have helped. Question is should they have just replaced this free of charge... As for the cat, the technician assures me it was knackered, although I have yet to see this myself as I don't have a car to call in to them! I had had a coil replaced previously which improved things at the time and figure replacing the other 3 makes good sense, and would have been the logical solution to the problem I was having. I'll definitely try it on a bit when I collect the car but I'm sure you know how difficult it is to cut down a bill!

I'll definitely get them to check the clutch assembly, might even replace it if it doesn't break the bank! Any idea what this would cost (Mazda parts and labour)?

Laurie

O'Renesis

FYI, There was/is two Mazda ( Nth. America) Service Bulletins for "Engine Cranks No Start" The first one was Bulletin No: 01-048/06 last issued on 17th Nov.'05 which seems to be superseded by Bulletin No: 01-015/08 last issued on 24th Oct.'08.
The first service bulletin for this issue was to replace the battery and the starter motor, but the new service bulletin does not mention the battery or starter motor but instead details a method to lubricate the rotor seals and also how to decarb the rotors etc.
These Service Bulletins or TSB's are available to read/download here-
http://www.finishlineperformance.com....php?pageid=11 (Rosenthal Mazda)

These TSB's are not the same as the "recalls" with which we are more familiar with here in Ireland. As far as I know all Mazda dealers worldwide will have these TSB's and will use them to identify issues and the methodology used to make a repair or replacement. I would recommend that you read through and print any relevant TSB's that might help you with any discussion with Belgard Motors/Mazda Ireland.

I had the CAT replaced under warranty with only 16,000Km on the clock, so I don't think it unusual that they replaced yours. Thankfully that has been the only problem with my 8, it always starts easily but I have only 34,000km done so far.

With your mileage I would definitly replace the whole clutch assembly if it was my car.

lorryload

Yeah i'd come accross thise before, along with several others that were relevant. One of them saved me a €600 replacement light level sensor - the fix was disconnect the connectors, clean, seal with filler. Also a leaky tail light, again 'irrelevant' but mysteriously i still had the problem... They still swore blind to me that they were all irrelevant and only for the american market. (this was my previous garage in sandyford, which incidentally were freaking hopeless). At least when i took them to belgard they had an open mind and looked at them all.

Can't wait to get her back, been over two weeks now and this so called poublic transport is starting to pi55 me off

spoddyandthemazda

Hi lorryload and o'renesis

nice to see some fellow irish rx8 owners, i live in the north and have an 04 in winning blue.
funny enough i had to replace the CAT at 62000 odd miles, i only had the car about a month and the cel light came on going home one night. i bought it back to the citreon dealership who thought it was the gasket as the engine dipstick was all gunky but i knew that was the norm for the rotary. it got sent off to the mazda dealership who diagnosed the fault as the CAT, so i got one put on at £1000 only had to pay the labour etc. car was fine after, only thing went wrong a few months later was the low coolant light flashing on and off so a new coolant bottle was needed at £180 odd and then labour on it again.

but thats all i had to do, i changed the oil myself at 70216, used a bottle of fuel treatment too and car was like new again. i red line once a day, only drive car twice a week, but its 60 motorway miles round trip each day. i find that the engine drives better on the way home, suppose its the constant 70mph speed keeping carbon down etc for 30 mins on the way to work.

i just put my rear mud flaps on, looks really good missed out on some strakes on ebay and was waiting to get them before putting the front mud flaps on, but i'll go ahead and put them on tomorrow if weather is good.

i have no engine probs at 70500 miles, so the new engine should be cool, may need to keep an eye more on the oil level, but i don't use much about 1/2 cm from top of dipstick level on average.

well good luck and nice to meet you both.

O'Renesis

Hi Spoddy, nice to see more Irish RX-8 owners here.
That " low coolant light" issue is discussed here and seems to be a common enough problem, but £180 for a plastic bottle is crazy
Regular oil and oil filter changes are critical to a long and happy renesis
Have you considered premixing? many of the members here swear by it. I have started premixing myself in the hope this will prevent premature rotor wear.
I have a set of rear mud guards which I will fit as soon as the weather permits.

ASH8

I would consider yourself lucky Mazda UK are replacing the engine at 5 years..
If your dealer knew what he was doing he should have done a compression test FIRST...although there are issues with coils it won't fix compressions.

Yes, the US/Canada 8 year warranty is "exclusive", I along with others have been trying in Australia to get similar, our UK friends "don't think it is a problem" and that is another "head in sand" issue. It is just starting to become a much bigger issue there as you guys (UK /Ireland) do a lot less miles than us..US/Australia...smaller land mass

You will probably (99.9% certain) get a brand new Factory made and assembled engine, in the US they reman them at a now Factory Trained facility.

My suggestion is that you start to pre-mix (Fuel), your dealer will probably say "what is that" or "No Sonny you don't need to do that"..they know little in reality....

spoddyandthemazda

well a few things to say here, ireland/uk as you say 'smaller land mass' has nothing to do with what mileage we all do, i don't think alot of USA rx8 drivers drive the width or land mass of their country nor in ireland or uk.

i think the problem in the warmer countries is the 5w20 oil used, we in the uk/ireland use 5w30 oil, i had read that the '20' oil was causing problems with the rotary engine in hot countries. maybe that is one cause of engine failures, all i know is that rotaries in the past would blow oil seals, or the apex on an edge would break. as they are built by hand, some may be better built than others.

mine is at 70500 miles so my 8 has done more miles than most, no matter where and its running perfectly. i red line at least twice, any day she goes out and keep oil topped up, changed it at 70216 from when i bought her at 62800, had never any engine problems.

i'm not sure if we do get a new engine from mazda in ireland or uk, as they could be remans from the usa or france or anywhere. anytime i needed a part it has to be ordered in from japan, so an order for a new engine could be a new one or a reman from somewhere where they are kept. i think lorry is getting an engine replaced under warranty cause the way the warranty works from a dealership, i got my cat replaced under a good will 'warranty' as cat not part of any warranty dealerships provide, but car was only owned a few weeks.

i have also heard premixing is good and some also say is not needed as why would mazda develop an engine that an oil metering pump was not sufficient for the engine to work properly and needed you to mix petrol with 2 stroke oil. i have heard yes that the oil holes the apex tips get coated in do not cover the length of the apex and so some wear is going on there. in the face lifted '09 model there is a bigger oil capacity and third oil hole to cover the middle more. so yes that answers the need to pre mix to stop the middle part of the apex wearing out, but for us '03 to '08 drivers pre mixing would help as only 2 oil holes. however i have heard pre mixing helps destroy the cat and after putting a new one on at 62000 miles i am very weary about pre mixing. the mazda stock cat is very expensive it cost my dealership £1000, cause it has expensive metals in it like space shuttle stuff.

so be careful of the pre-mixing, there is a whole thread on here about it which is for/against it.

its a strange engine, but all seem to agree that oil must be at proper levels and in good condition so changing oil every 3-5000 miles can't be bad.

ahhhh drives you nuts these rotaries lol

ASH8

My point is "ON Average" Drivers/owners in the US, Australia, South Africa or any large sized country drive greater distances to get from point A to B, or to work etc, many say in NSW drive 2 hours to get to work on a freeway like the US, I was only using this as an example as of course there would be many European owners who travel or do as many miles as Americans or Australians, but they are a minority.

Ever wondered why fuel is more expensive in Europe?, compared to larger land mass countries.

The lighter grade oils appears to be causing Rotor Bearing and stationary gear bearing issues, in fact lighter oil in theory should be better for lubricating Apex seals or on the MOP (Metering Oil Pump). It's use in the US is for EPA and Fuel Economy Ratings.

But yes, it is mainly the compressions which are mostly from poor lubrication of the middle area of the Apex Seal that are failing, as you said addressed in the new 09 RX-8., also it appears broken side seal can be the cause on high mileage engines.

I am almost certain that the US are not exporting Reman engines to Europe or anywhere else apart from Canada, (Sleepezy-z) a member and worker at the US reman plant can confirm this.
In Australia , Mazda Australia were replacing engines with brand new "long Blocks" from Mazda Japan, it appears though they are now wanting old engines back from Dealers (rather than dumping them in the dumpster) which then goes to a Queensland Dealer who are reman-ing them.

I guess once the numbers get high enough in Europe, Mazda Europe will do the same.

As far as pre-mixing goes, I would much rather replace my CAT ( if it does fail because of pre-mix) than replace my engine...which is cheaper?

Most long term Rotary Owners of all models pre-mix, as a Mazda Dealer Master Technician (tecknics) says here there are no downsides to pre-mixing..and I agree.

ASH8

BTW, we have a member here (Philip from South Africa) who I am in constant contact with got up to 207,000 KMS (about 128k Miles) in his 04 RX-8 before a rebuild, Apex Seals were badly worn in the middle and he had a broken side seal.

He was using Royal Purple for approx. the last 1/3rd of its life and started to pre-mix, unfortunately at 140K much of the Apex Seal irregular wear is done and you can't rectify this with pre-mix once the damage is done, it will help to extend engine life though.

Philip is an on road rep, so his car was used extensively every working day.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Hey hey hey ! oh no you didn't say that ! Those UK guys will rush out and call you bullshit on that one !

ASH8

OH God it's hard mate.....

I really don't know why some of us bother....

teknics

woah woah, not a master tech yet, lol. close but no cigar, mainly cause i off-tracked to rotary specific work, i do have 2, somewhat rare to find someone with, mazda rotary certs tho.

kevin.

ASH8

You know what I mean....

You are CERTIFIED.....................Not Insane either.....

You are a CERTIFIED Rotary Nut, who just happens to work at a Mazda dealer in the US and has just replaced 'NY's' RX-8 engine that was not broken....
Just because you like to do it...

ASH8

Gee...my credibility has gone out the window.....WHAT cred they say...

teknics

lmao, yea i prefer to just order engines at random, not like a misordered motor would get me booted, my place has fairly strict rules, few lenient areas, unnecessary motors is grounds for term. at my place. that happened a month ago come to think of it lol.

and who said i wasn't insane? you haven't seen me on the track yet with one of my babies

kevin.

ASH8

No, Got any You-Tube Vids??????...Links Please...


Sorry OP,
Back on thread Topic....

spoddyandthemazda

well ash petrol or gas is more expensive in uk cause of our crappy government taxing the hell out of us lol.

i am getting pretty good mpg, as on average i was getting 70 miles from full tank to the first quarter mark, i checked my miles yesterday and noticed i am at 69 miles with a single mark above the first quarter mark, i wonder does the higher mileage return better mpg??? driving as normal each time, usual 95 octane petrol, could be the petrol treatment may have helped clean more crap out when i changed the oil?

if someone can suggest the proper oil to pre mix with, i think i'll try it out and see what happens, as CAT is only 8000 miles old and should be ok. now i am in northern ireland, so only 2 stroke oil available in UK market is what i can get my hands on, or will any 2 stroke oil do? also how much 2 stroke for a full tank of petrol (gas)?

it would be great for me or any of us to reach 140000 miles on the first engine, i'm half way there

lorryload

Thanks Spoddy and all others on your comments, much appreciated.

Looks like i should be thankful of Mazda's good will - nice to see they're looking after us in europe, albeit a little differently. Although I did have to ask for the compression test, and even then the dealership didn't suggest requesting a new engine from mazda - there thoughts were it was maybe 'worth a try'.

They won't let me keep the engine, was gonna keep it and woo all my friends with how cool it looked but they have to send it back to nazda Anyhoo...should get word tomorrow on completion

lorryload

Collected car from the dealer this morning, new engine, starter, cat, coils, plugs - only had a quick trip to work but my god this car is now a beast!!! Think she's been tailing off on power for a while now - hard to notice when it's spread out over a year or so. Gobshite dealer managed to put several scratches on the wheel arch and engine cover during the process but they seem to have polished out - You'd think with over €7000 worth of work they would at least look after your car... Anyhoo, this weekend is gonna see some serious tyre burning :D

As a point of interest how long should an engine change take? Dealer suposedly spent 11 hours doing mine...