Or DIY SHAM-WOW

 

That Golden Spectra has really powerful fumes ...

 

Ok. I get it.
Olddragger

 

Not really premix related but some interesting comments on an analysis by Blackstone of MMO.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...41#Post1750241

 

Yeah, I would never add MMO to the oil. Well, maybe if I wanted to clean some carbon by running it through the oil for about 20 minutes of hard driving then replacing the oil. Then again, I would just use seafoam. Everyone loves seafoam.

 

Roflmfao @EricMeyer

 

I want some of what Eric is smoking and/or drinking

 

What a ******* ego!...

 

I got a big ego

 

Okay, let's talk some more. In searching about MMO I have found that IMO it is not a good choice as a premix. However, some more searching has also led me to believe that the Lucas UCL I use is probably not the best option either due to its heavy cleaning abilities.

I started the UCL because with the other straight 2 stroke oils in the SOHN reservoir and the gas tank I was getting a lot of smoke (no cat). When I started using the Lucas UCL, the smoke stopped (at least after warm up. it still does the white smoke when cold). I haven't really had any issues with the UCL and other 8 owners have commented on how smooth my cars runs. But........ feeling doesn't mean crap. Without pulling the motor apart there is no way of telling how much lubrication is getting to the center of the Apex seal.

I came across some Lucas 2 synthetic 2 stroke oil and I am probably going to ditch the Lucas UCL and use this in my tank instead since 2 stroke oils are designed specifically for gas use (I use Amsoil in my SOHN Reservoir).

What are your thoughts on ratio? I know the rule of thumb is generally 1/2oz - 1oz per gallon but lets talk about the ratio's on the back of the bottle. I am thinking at least 1oz per gallon.

 

I would run 1/2 oz per gallon for the first two tanks then run 1 oz per gallon on the next couple tanks. See if there are any noticeable differences, good or bad, and make an educated decision. If you go with 1 - 1 1/2 oz per gallon, you may want to run no premix once every ten fill ups to ensure the ratio doesn't slowly crawl upward.

BTW, theres a group buy for a case of Idemitsu. Looks like it will be around $55 + Shipping for the case. Might as well just buy that. Then you could run Lucas UCL once a month to help combat carbon buildup.

 

I am running a clean tank of gas through with a bottle of Techron (thanks to some tech from REDRX3RX8) every three or four tanks of gas to clean things up. I should also note that I only use Shell 93 octane gas.

Does anyone know if gas cane be tested? I always wonder if what is advertised is in the tank?

 

I wouldn't use that bottle of Techron so often. Maybe once a month tops. The bottled fuel system cleaners are known to cause damage if used too often. I tend to stay away from them.

I will premix 9/10 times. That one time I do not premix, I will run just gas. Once every 3-6 months, that 1 tank of just gas becomes gas + seafoam or BG 44k. I think less is more when it comes to "cleaners". Lubricious cleaners on the other hand I will use all the time. MMO is exactly that, or at least I think it is. Even if it is not, I am leaving MMO and moving on to better premixes I'm also looking into FP+ and other cleaners to mix with Idemitsu.

 

Yeah generally every fourth tank or so, it should work out to once a month or so. I have yet to try the FP+ stuff.

 

I'm curious about FP+ and whether it works or not.

 

This is probably one of the more important statements in this thread.

There is lots of conjecture in this thread about pre-mix, "lubricious cleaners", pure cleaners, the mythical powers of Marvel Mystery Oil, etc.

Lets just say what we do know:

1) Premix (real low ash 2-stroke oil) reduces wear and increases compression (better sealing). This is known.
2) Running stuff (Techron, Seafoam in the tank, etc) that is specifically a chemical cleaner is going to attack the oil films in the chambers. This is going to mean a higher rate of wear.
3) The combustion process produces carbon (especially when we burn crank case oil). All there is to it. The Renesis, by nature, tends to hold on to carbon more than other IC engines. This can be really bad (seals damaged), or if its mild...just a slightly sticky seal or reduction in efficiency.
4) Keep the crank oil fresh! Needs no explanation.

So, just going off of these 4 things brings me to what I think is probably one of the more important statements in this monster of a thread...seafoam works.

Instead of constantly running some "Mystery Oil" all the time, how about just running premix that is known to be low ash.

Then keep the carbon in check, do a seafoam treatment as normal maintenance. How often is up to the user and the application. At least you won't be running mystery oils and cleaners that are probably be doing more harm than good.

These engines just plain wear out just like any other engine, so its not like anyone is going to find the magic cure to make one go forever.

 

I usually avoid this thread, but I am so glad I popped in today. Simply hilarious.

 

I agree. However, I would like to at least make to 100,000 miles on one engine instead of taking three to get there so I like to discuss everything to death. plus i like to keep thsi stuff fresh because most new guys will not read 100 pages of BS to get an answer.

It may seem to many that this stuff is old news but I still talk to guys new and old that still do not have a good understanding of premixing or lubrication in general. Just when I think I have read everything, I find a little knowledge I was unaware of

 

What? After all that scientific research you did, you're now no longer convinced of your "tune-up in a bottle" that "increases power" and "decreases fuel consumption." I'm flabbergasted, severely disillusioned, speechless, bewildered, don't know where to turn any more.

What have you read about it's "heavy cleaning abilities" that concerns you?

 

Anything that is primarily a solvent is most likely a poor premix for the 8 as it is at least thinning the oil films which is bad. Although I don't have anything negative to say about MMO, after much debate in this thread, I will be switching to a synthetic, low ash premix, most likely idemitsu or protek r from pettit. I will most likely use MMO or FP+ to help combat carbon. At what ratio I mix idemitsu and the tbd carbon cleaner is another debate.

 

Tune up in a bottle? I think you are referring to Lucas. Yes well, not so much on Lucas in particular but on MMO specifically and other "additives". Without drudging all the crap up (you can do your own research), all I can say is basically none of them hold a candle to a good 2 stroke from a lubrication and ash standpoint so what is the point of running them as a premix?

For me specifically because I have a new motor that has oil changes every 3k (usually less) and has clean 2 stroke going in VIA SOHN, and I run only Shell 93 octane. So my motor should be plenty clean inside and out.

 

Yeah basically that is my point. As for MMO, If you have a dirty engine, run MMO for a few minutes drive cycle in the oil and then do a drain, fill, drain fill. But honestly why use MMO when Amsoil, autorx, etc. have products for this that are not a mystery.

 

Yes, I am referring to your old Lucas UCL. Right on the bottle, they call it "Tune-Up in a Bottle."

As mentioned in the other thread, the Renesis is more prone to carbon build-up than older rotaries because of the side exhaust ports, especially in daily driving. That's why some here look for a premix, eg, FP+ or Lucas UCL or even MMO, that can help in preventing or even breaking down carbon. I wouldn't assume that 1.5 oz/gal of premix, in addition to your working OMP, and you say it is maybe working too hard, will help with carbon build-up, especially around the side seals. As Stealth has pointed out, low ash or ashless refers only to the additive package and says nothing about carbon from the combustion (or incomplete combusion) process. From what I've read here, you're usually talking about a trade off between ashless and less protection and low ash and more protection.

Another thought. I think you're catless, but I don't recall if you have an AP. Without the cat, why not also lean out your AFRs ratios rather than just adding so much premix? That will also give you more power, unlike your old Lucas UCL, which only claimed to do so.

 

haha BG 44K ad at the bottom of the thread. Epic win for BG 44K, good product

Anyway, I wonder what the minimum amount of cleaner(MMO, FP+, UCL) is that you can add to the gas and still have it work. Since they are all primarily solvents/cleaners, less may be more in this case. Would mixing 1-3oz of MMO/FP+/UCL with 5-7oz Idemitsu actually do anything? Hmmmm, where can I find some carbon covered parts to test? Any thoughts?

 

I was thinking of putting in new plugs and running a mix of Amsoil Saber Pro and FP Plus. I could see if carbon on the plugs is lessened as a proxy for corbon on the engine walls. What do you think?