9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You are likely screwed, they will use any excuse they can not to pay for a reman.

Karack

you had them but didn't do your research before showing your cards to the manufacturer.

the lesson is: put your car back to factory and remove any "performance enhancing" mods before bringing it in for service.

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

update!
Warranty voided and the dealer wanted 6k for a pos reman. So I was going to tow it up to LA to get a reman installed, but found a local shop (or person) that seems like a really upstanding guy. His name is Jim (Jim's Rotary shop). He is going to give the engine a proper diagnostic and then if need be rebuild my engine. I feel much more confident going this route. The idea of getting an engine that simply has band aid fixes on it seems not much better than buying a jdm engine. I'll keep everyone who's interested in what he finds and how the engine is being rebuilt.

Other than the engine itself what else would you guys recommend i do?
Replacing/Reinstalling:
1.) Stock Cat
2.) Stock Intake
3.) Clutch/lightweight flywheel
4.) Fuel pump

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

how can you possibly go wrong with Jim from Jim's rotary shop!

j9fd3s

6k? that's like $4000 labor.. i guess they don't want your business. then they will complain they don't make enough money...

when you have the engine out, you should do the clutch as its easy at that time, everything else is assessable with the engine in the car, so its optional

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

So here is where we are at now. Jim took a look at the inside of my motor and rotor 1 had very low compression and some scaring on the front rotor. He gave me a few options to repair the motor. Of the options these 3 are the most probable.

1.) Rebuild the motor with good used rotor housings and aircraft grade seals. (Best deal IMO for price. Possibility that my motor might be rebuildable, but if my rotors are scarred I'm guessing my housing must be too right?

2.) Buy brand new local Atkins built motor (Tear it down and replace with better seals and side springs). Was advised that the side springs are crap.

3.) Rebuild the motor with all brand new parts and top of the line seals, springs, etc. (Can do, but would cost me alot more than willing unless this is the only real viable option).($2k dollar difference from option 1)

Option 1 and 3 seem the most appeasing to me. Can I get some input on what you guys think?

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

You should reach out to Rotary Resurrection for rebuild options. He'll take your old motor as a core and rebuild it however you want. Last I checked his price was right too.

Karack

honestly i don't understand why people bag on the remans so much. all of the units i yanked out of boxes i could never have competed with pricewise.

yes, the old RX7 remans were horrible and it seemed a rare occasion that they either worked out of the box or lasted the full year from installation without developing issues. but that was then, all the assemblies i inspected looked perfectly fine, with more than expensive parts than i could ever hope to build an engine with for the same price. about half of the older remans had used housings, i have yet to see a renny reman yet with used housings, and what causes the infamous low compression on a renesis? you got it, worn housings. used rotor housings in a renesis just begs for low compression in half the time.

not a single reman i installed has had any issue yet, though i have only been installing them for a few years since the engine core warranties just fell off last year. most issues will be apparent on first crank.

if something drug across the side of the rotor to be ejected from the engine, then you also may need irons as well, maybe rotors as the cherry on top. a few engines were total losses, there was absolutely no arguing that a reman was the wisest way to go when you have chrome flaking off housings, scarred rotors and irons leaving you spending $500+ for old used, possibly good parts to scrounge an already beat up engine back into life for a little while longer.

problem is, once you have an engine completely apart on a bench any shop is going to try and sell you the time they vested into it and salvage the engine or charge you a few hundred more for teardown of a scrap engine.

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

That's good to know, Karack, but I know I will be heavily comparing Rotary Resurrections offerings once this stock '04 motor goes (which I think is any day now at this point).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's hit or miss min my opinion. Most are probably completely acceptable, but it is also undeniable that there is a noticeable chance of getting a complete dud of a reman, and these typically have coolant seal failures within 10,000 miles. RotaryResurrection has posted up pics multiple times of remans he has pulled apart with under 10,000 miles on them and significant problems with the original rebuild, nearly all of which are dealing with sealant and the coolant seals.

If you make it to 15,000 on a reman, it's probably a decently acceptable engine at this point.

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

Hey 9krmprx8 what is your take on Atkins rebuilt motors? Specifically do you or anyone have any experience on seal failure issues? My builder is highly suggesting not to go with Atkins motors because of their seals.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

for seals, it's either OEM or Ceramic, period.

Soon I will be getting a Mazda Reman Engine, not for my NYC 8, it's for my 2nd 8 overseas. gonna open it up, Fix whatever they did wrong(if any) before I put it back together and ship it over, will take pics of course, might even upgrade seals to Ceramic. and couple other work to help the cooling of the engine. will take pics of course

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

Okay so update:
-The front rotor, and rotor housings got torn up pretty bad. The kicker is that upon pulling apart my motor my mechanic noticed that the motor was mickey moused together with random parts. After looking up my VIN number it was apparent that the motor in my car was already replaced with a Mazda POS reman. back at around 21k miles.
Here is a pic of the carnage:

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

RR is east coast and OP is west coast. I have no issues with RR, but the shipping costs for an engine both ways (rebuilt and core return) may make it not a viable option.

Karack

obviously something drug across the rotor by the outer oil seal case but the question is, what?

could be foreign debris, could be a broken side seal from detonation from running lean due to a faulty fuel pump, could simply be a crap reman. but the question still remains if you want the new engine to last and why often times these questions go unanswered to duplicate themselves later on and repeat the process over and over again.

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

So my engine builder said that it was only the apex seal that broke and that the side seals are still in the rotor. My guess at the moment is that it is a crappy reman.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

My opinion is not good of atkins. A buddy of mine received Atkins cryo treated apex seals that were warped right from the start and Atkins handled it very poorly.

You want to use all OEM stuff in you are planning to stay NA. As for shipping costs, well my shipping from Pineapple Racing (Oregon) to Texas was less ($150.00) than what my buddy paid in shipping IN STATE using fucktard Brian Cain (BDC Motorsports). And his engine was DOA to boot.

Do your homework.

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

Thanks 9K yeah that's what Jim was pretty much saying.
Some more carnage pics:

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

that rotor is done. check your pm

lude1888

iTrader: (3)

Engine is finished being rebuilt and waiting for install. Should be back on the road by tuesday.
nycgps I should have my old parts then too.

dezau

iTrader: (3)

damn. i'm going through the same thing-ish.
Here's my thread
How much is this costing you? I'm planning on doing mine at Pettit since I'm in Florida, and the out the door cost would probably be like 6k

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

that thing looks sweet! looking forward to see ur 8 back on the road

oh, thanks man! yea I'm still looking for it, if u have it that would be great

since Mazda jack their prices up, it probably makes more sense for you to go with Pettit now, but I'm NOT sure if Pettit will jack their price up too since it was still BASED ON A MAZDA REMAN.

if I were u, I will call Pettit up tomorrow morning, don't say anything, they might have some old stock left. if you are lucky.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

People really put that kind of money into these cars?

No wonder I stay so busy doing the job for 3, lol.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I usually do not get many requests from west coast guys for this reason. But I do currently have a 4 port auto engine here from cali. Usually the shipping is stupid high, but for whatever reason it was only like $250 each way this time, and I'm sure I can save the guy enough to compensate for the shipping two or three times over.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

That's standard procedure for a renesis that breaks apex seals. The chunks fly around as they usually would, but there is no peripheral exhaust port to exit quickly, thus the pieces have to make a 90 degree turn into the intake or exhaust ports to get out of the combustion chamber. Chunks are bound to get wedged in the corner of a port between the iron wall and rotor, then get dragged around a few times. In fact, anytime a renesis is known to actually break seals and have zero compression on one rotor, I expect that the rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent iron faces will automatically be destroyed....it is very rare that this does not happen.

As to why it broke apex seals, probably a combination of uneven apex seal wear due to insufficient OMP lubrication, combined with uneven rotor housing wear/chatter/chrome flaking (they were probably reused in the reman he had, and already had moderate wear on them when it was "new") which I have noticed occurs much more quickly on renesis rotor housings than previous rotary engines. These housings are worst than old school/1st gen housings as far as chrome flaking and wear. I do not know why mazda made the chrome so thin on them, but most renesis rotor housings with over 100k miles are automatically junk too.