THE Ducting / Heat Transfer Thread
07-27-2007, 10:24 AM
#26
i am hitting a little over 130 on the back straight, really can gain on people in that braking zone. we are turning 1:46's or so. Stock pads are probably contributing a lot to your problem
. Sounds also like you have a lot of wheel energy to burn off!
my track tire and wheels and lugnuts only weight 40Lbs apiece
Hope to see you at RA sometime--our group will be there Aug 11/12--come on down!
olddragger.
. Sounds also like you have a lot of wheel energy to burn off!my track tire and wheels and lugnuts only weight 40Lbs apiece
Hope to see you at RA sometime--our group will be there Aug 11/12--come on down!
olddragger.
07-27-2007, 11:31 AM
#27
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i am hitting a little over 130 on the back straight, really can gain on people in that braking zone. we are turning 1:46's or so. Stock pads are probably contributing a lot to your problem. Sounds also like you have a lot of wheel energy to burn off!
my track tire and wheels and lugnuts only weight 40Lbs apiece
Hope to see you at RA sometime--our group will be there Aug 11/12--come on down!
olddragger.
. Sounds also like you have a lot of wheel energy to burn off!my track tire and wheels and lugnuts only weight 40Lbs apiece
Hope to see you at RA sometime--our group will be there Aug 11/12--come on down!
olddragger.
I suspect that some are also experiencing brake fade because they aren't using their brakes properly. In other words, they are riding them too much, and not squeezing them on and then getting off of them...or frankly are overusing them by slowing before corner entry way more than they should be. At various points, and dependent on track, I'm sure I'm guilty of some if not all of the above.
And great idea for a thread. I wish I could contribute to oil and water cooling, but have a low level grasp of the theory behind this stuff...
07-27-2007, 11:39 AM
#28
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+1 for the XP8/Bobcat combination.
I suspect that some are also experiencing brake fade because they aren't using their brakes properly. In other words, they are riding them too much, and not squeezing them on and then getting off of them...or frankly are overusing them by slowing before corner entry way more than they should be. At various points, and dependent on track, I'm sure I'm guilty of some if not all of the above.
And great idea for a thread. I wish I could contribute to oil and water cooling, but have a low level grasp of the theory behind this stuff...
I suspect that some are also experiencing brake fade because they aren't using their brakes properly. In other words, they are riding them too much, and not squeezing them on and then getting off of them...or frankly are overusing them by slowing before corner entry way more than they should be. At various points, and dependent on track, I'm sure I'm guilty of some if not all of the above.
And great idea for a thread. I wish I could contribute to oil and water cooling, but have a low level grasp of the theory behind this stuff...
Then we'll be able to see differences [if any] the REVi duct makes, as I'm running a REVi without duct, and Joe RX-8 so graciously gave us temps with the REVi. I figure it's going to rob at least a little airflow from the radiator, but we shall see.
I'm for sure purchasing [new or used] the RB oil pressure/temp adapter, but I'm trying to warrant the price of the water temp adapter if a brass t-fitting from Home Depot or Lowes would accomplish the same thing...
07-27-2007, 11:49 AM
#29
What is going on at RA Aug 11/12? I didn't see anything on their schedule. I'll be in Florida that weekend, however.
07-27-2007, 01:30 PM
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If I read this correctly, there is no duct for the oil coolers into the wheel well? If this is so, the efficiency of the oil coolers will go up is some sort of duct work or by venting the inner wheel well to allow air to move out of the oil cooler area. Otherwise pressure will just build up and airflow through the exchanger will be very small.
07-27-2007, 02:25 PM
#31
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If I read this correctly, there is no duct for the oil coolers into the wheel well? If this is so, the efficiency of the oil coolers will go up is some sort of duct work or by venting the inner wheel well to allow air to move out of the oil cooler area. Otherwise pressure will just build up and airflow through the exchanger will be very small.
If I ever get around to "fixing" that, I'd be more inclined to leave the plastic as is, but buy a 7" fan and some tubing to suck heat out from behind the cooler, over the wheel, and into the fender where it can exit out of a gutted gill or something, instead of opening the wheel well up to the elements+venting to the already hot wheel/calipers.
07-27-2007, 02:31 PM
#32
I am in the middle of configuring my oil coolers for 6" fans. The cooler lines need to be re-fabbed (to clear the cooler instead of lay across it) and a new bracket is in order, but that is simple.
As soon as I figure out what the OE connectors are in thread and size, I can put this all together.
As soon as I figure out what the OE connectors are in thread and size, I can put this all together.
07-27-2007, 05:47 PM
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I am in the middle of configuring my oil coolers for 6" fans. The cooler lines need to be re-fabbed (to clear the cooler instead of lay across it) and a new bracket is in order, but that is simple.
As soon as I figure out what the OE connectors are in thread and size, I can put this all together.
As soon as I figure out what the OE connectors are in thread and size, I can put this all together.
How far are you from Melbourne [Fla]?
07-27-2007, 07:33 PM
#35
Power!!
I think there is definitely something to be had with ducting airflow out of the oil coolers and out of the engine compartment in general. Either out the top through a vented hood or out the bottom through some ducting downward. If you put a cowl around the oil cooler and angle it down to exit out the bottom of the car I would think that should help instead of the tiny slits into the wheel wells. You'll want to keep the total cross section equal so you don't lose airflow.
07-27-2007, 07:40 PM
#36
The OE oil coolers are not only pathetically small, they are also blocked on their exit side by a bracket (covering the middle 1/3 of the cooler directly) and the inlet and outlet lines (covering nearly another 1/3 completely). After having 2/3 of their surface area blocked, they are expected to eject the hot air through some small slats on the wheel well dressing.
I don't know if there is a low pressure region in front of the wheels, but there is no real path for air at low speeds where most overheating occurs.
I am going to plumb the lines so that they exit the cooler perpendicularly (there is a ton of room) and then remove the OE bracket, replacing it with a 1700 CFM fan that will act as the bracket when attached.
I'll probably remove the slatted area of the wheel well and replace it with a mesh similar to what is present in the grilles of the MS nose.
I don't know if there is a low pressure region in front of the wheels, but there is no real path for air at low speeds where most overheating occurs.
I am going to plumb the lines so that they exit the cooler perpendicularly (there is a ton of room) and then remove the OE bracket, replacing it with a 1700 CFM fan that will act as the bracket when attached.
I'll probably remove the slatted area of the wheel well and replace it with a mesh similar to what is present in the grilles of the MS nose.
07-28-2007, 09:54 AM
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The OE oil coolers are not only pathetically small, they are also blocked on their exit side by a bracket (covering the middle 1/3 of the cooler directly) and the inlet and outlet lines (covering nearly another 1/3 completely). After having 2/3 of their surface area blocked, they are expected to eject the hot air through some small slats on the wheel well dressing.
I don't know if there is a low pressure region in front of the wheels, but there is no real path for air at low speeds where most overheating occurs.
I am going to plumb the lines so that they exit the cooler perpendicularly (there is a ton of room) and then remove the OE bracket, replacing it with a 1700 CFM fan that will act as the bracket when attached.
I'll probably remove the slatted area of the wheel well and replace it with a mesh similar to what is present in the grilles of the MS nose.
I don't know if there is a low pressure region in front of the wheels, but there is no real path for air at low speeds where most overheating occurs.
I am going to plumb the lines so that they exit the cooler perpendicularly (there is a ton of room) and then remove the OE bracket, replacing it with a 1700 CFM fan that will act as the bracket when attached.
I'll probably remove the slatted area of the wheel well and replace it with a mesh similar to what is present in the grilles of the MS nose.
07-28-2007, 10:08 PM
#43
In fact, if the coolers were very efficient, they would seem cool immediately after you opened your door.
The coolers themselves are not receiving maximum temp oil. Just tracing the line to the coolers shows this.
However, I'd say they are adequate just by measuring the temp difference between the two coolers, which is usually at least 20°F.
07-29-2007, 08:10 PM
#45
tes the coolers are in series. While hand on cooler may not be exact--but your have on a fluidyne oil cooler and then put your hand on ours. approx same oil temp in both cars and if i remember correctly Jeff Goldburg(forgive me if I have the name incorrect) installed a 3nd cooler(fluidyne) in between the 2 oem ones. Guess which one was warmer --to the touch. To me logic says that if the cooler is warmer it is handling /dispensing more heat. I am a simple man---when ever I can be.
It will be an interesting project--let us know the difference in the temp of the oil being delivered to the 1st cooler and then the temp pf the oil and it returns to the engine if possible?
olddragger
It will be an interesting project--let us know the difference in the temp of the oil being delivered to the 1st cooler and then the temp pf the oil and it returns to the engine if possible?
olddragger
08-03-2007, 01:08 AM
#47
Michael:
Awsome Heat pics! Any chance of retaking these pics with a big fan blowing into the front of the vehicle? My reason is I(my 2 cents) belive the fender vents must work to a certain amount. Heck if you look under the hood at both approns you can see through the square holes at the fender side vents. How can they not work? Also from the front view the ac condenser & radiator was cool(dark color). The best way I think to retake these pics is when the vehicle is on a dyno at full throttle. I know this is asking alot but I would really like to see that!
Awsome Heat pics! Any chance of retaking these pics with a big fan blowing into the front of the vehicle? My reason is I(my 2 cents) belive the fender vents must work to a certain amount. Heck if you look under the hood at both approns you can see through the square holes at the fender side vents. How can they not work? Also from the front view the ac condenser & radiator was cool(dark color). The best way I think to retake these pics is when the vehicle is on a dyno at full throttle. I know this is asking alot but I would really like to see that!
08-03-2007, 03:27 AM
#48
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A previous trip to Tortilla Flats here in Phoenix gave me the opportunity to test my cooling upgrades since installing them. I'm currently running a Koyo Radiator and the Greddy oil pan.
I won't bore everyone with technical details of the drive...needless to say the environment is pretty harsh. We were experiencing air temps of 101 degrees and I was driving mostly in 2nd gear between 7 and 9k RPM's for several minutes.
Water temps held steady and climbed as high as approx 230 degrees but would quickly fall. The oil system held up for half of the trip but the system became heavily saturated and due to the low speed the coolers did little to get rid of the heat in an already hot climate.
Even if a low pressure are existed behind the coolers, the limited vent capability means most air hits plastic...
Having the high speed 6 inch fans means forcing air through the coolers which would be a huge benifit at low speeds as MazdaManiac pointed out.
I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of these fans...I feel this would be a good alternative to a 3rd cooler though I am exploring this option as well.
I won't bore everyone with technical details of the drive...needless to say the environment is pretty harsh. We were experiencing air temps of 101 degrees and I was driving mostly in 2nd gear between 7 and 9k RPM's for several minutes.
Water temps held steady and climbed as high as approx 230 degrees but would quickly fall. The oil system held up for half of the trip but the system became heavily saturated and due to the low speed the coolers did little to get rid of the heat in an already hot climate.
Even if a low pressure are existed behind the coolers, the limited vent capability means most air hits plastic...
Having the high speed 6 inch fans means forcing air through the coolers which would be a huge benifit at low speeds as MazdaManiac pointed out.
I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of these fans...I feel this would be a good alternative to a 3rd cooler though I am exploring this option as well.
08-03-2007, 11:10 AM
#49
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Michael:
Awsome Heat pics! Any chance of retaking these pics with a big fan blowing into the front of the vehicle? My reason is I(my 2 cents) belive the fender vents must work to a certain amount. Heck if you look under the hood at both approns you can see through the square holes at the fender side vents. How can they not work? Also from the front view the ac condenser & radiator was cool(dark color). The best way I think to retake these pics is when the vehicle is on a dyno at full throttle. I know this is asking alot but I would really like to see that!
Awsome Heat pics! Any chance of retaking these pics with a big fan blowing into the front of the vehicle? My reason is I(my 2 cents) belive the fender vents must work to a certain amount. Heck if you look under the hood at both approns you can see through the square holes at the fender side vents. How can they not work? Also from the front view the ac condenser & radiator was cool(dark color). The best way I think to retake these pics is when the vehicle is on a dyno at full throttle. I know this is asking alot but I would really like to see that!
08-03-2007, 07:42 PM
#50