RotaMotion

Greetings, while I know there has been a lot of discussion on this, I haven’t been able to locate a thread regarding the following:

My 8 was built late Jan 2004, 131xxx, I’ve owned it for about two weeks and have 400 miles on it. What an awesome car. I love this thing. Whoops, I’m loosing focus… 8s do that to you...

So here’s the scenario. I’ll be cruising along at a steady RMP like 3K. The air blowing out of the A/C vents will blow so cold that I almost have to pull my hand back--that’s for about 8 seconds or so. Then for the next 8 seconds or so it will just blow kind of “coolish.” Then it’s back to another 8 seconds or so super cold air and the cycle repeats indefinitely…

Is this normal? My VIN is well past the TSB for the A/C. Yet I have seen posts about poor A/C performance on “fixed” 8s.

The reason I ask is that it takes a long time to cool down the car on a hot day, and if the A/C stayed on deep freeze mode it would be cooled in no time flat. Yeah, I know black paint doesn’t help :D I’ve got an appointment to get the windows tinted this weekend.

Also, any idea which flash I have? I know it’s not L or M since the brake test doesn’t work. Just curious. Thanks & this forum ROCKS!

RotaMotion

Well just returned from the dealership with my new "M" flash. They took a look at the A/C and they now have an A/C amplifier on order for my 8. Seems they are quite popular these days...

EatMyBanana

Thanks for this post,my 8 was produced in Jan. 04 and i am also having the same problem. i did have to get the m flash done and wanted to say something about the air but thought mine was suppose to be fixed since its number 30001 . Did they give you a hassle about it?How could they tell it had not been fixed? When i puschased, i had them check and see if all problems ( i even said the air problem) where fixed. I was told yes. So i just assumed it was. After reading on here it seemed that the fix did not do that much so i thought i was the way it was. Mine is not that bad as long as i use recycled air. I guess i have to return to the dealer.Thanks.
Any newer vin owners have to have the air fixed?

BaronVonBigmeat

When I first got my car almost a year ago, the AC was pretty flaccid. There was no cycling however.

It slowly got better, along with my mileage. Go figure. I could put it on 2 and be comfortable, and that was fine.

Then I got my huper optik window tint. And for 2 glorious days, I could put that baby on 1, and it would get COLD. This is in Houston, btw...in June.

Then last week, I guess the ECU decided that the honeymoon was over, and it was going to start being lazy and stingy with the coldness. 10 seconds of damp, muggy "cool" air...followed by a 3~5 second blast of genuine A/C. I got that one part replaced under warranty (they knew immediately what it was), and dammit to hell, it didn't change a single thing. (Ok it's a hair colder, but not like it was. And I attribute the tiny improvement to the fact that the AC was overfilled on freon.)

Needless to say, it's going back this saturday. Why do I get this bad feeling that it is actually working 100% correctly per Mazda's specs, and they designed this way intentionally? I can just imagine them sitting around trying to think up last-minute MPG improvements. "5W-20? Check. Goofy fuel map? Check. What other cheese-gimmick stunts can we try? (In steps corporate parent Ford) Ahh, Masters of the Cheese-Gimmick, advise us!"

EatMyBanana

I too think its working per mazda specs and is designed that way.It was 97 here today and after a while i have to put it on 2 but, if i stop seems as if i have to reach over and turn it up.Maybe it has something to do with the climate control it was disigned for?We should have this feature in the US.

RotaMotion

The service rep was very helpful and she was definitely familiar with the A/C problem. I told her about the cycling and asked if that was the same problem they were having with the VINs covered by the TSB. She said yes and that they would take a look at it.

Half an hour later my car was flashed and she told me they had to order the A/C amplifier—looks like a two-week wait. So I asked if she has seen other 8s that have VINS after the A/C amplifier cycling TSB. Her response seemed to indicate that it’s not uncommon to still be seeing this problem on post TSB VINS. However, she didn’t really give me an idea of exactly how often she is seeing this. Instead she stated that the A/C amplifier is a hot commodity right now.

So, how I initially approached the situation was pretty much from a common sense point of view. I told her that since my A/C was cycling about every 8 seconds, I could hear the clutch on the A/C compressor alternating between kicking on and off with each cycle, which IMHO seemed like a lot of unnecessary wear on the A/C clutch. I mean, how is it going to survive doing that without a lot of wear & heat that would probably lead to a new clutch sooner than later. So, I asked if that was how the system was designed to operate. She said no.

So this leads to my next soapbox…

[Rant On]
I find it unbelievably stupid, annoying, and insulting that there is no way to turn off the A/C when using the defroster—that’s such a ford HVAC trait. Furthermore, the A/C turns on when I have the air directed to the floor—seriously, I’m not kidding. Others seem to be having this problem too. The A/C light isn’t on but it’s running.

Not being able to control the A/C also messes with the fuel economy, which Mazda has already messed up enough. I am not an idiot and I think I should be able to decide when I want the A/C on. This whole thing reminds me of my college days when I was given the grandparents Ford LTD Crown Victoria—yeah, it had the cop car front end. Kinda fun watching people at night use their turn indicators and get out of my way when I came up fast on them in the fast lane. Anyway, I would go out to the car on a 30ish degree morning and there would be frost on the windshield. So I would turn the heat up to max and turn on the defroster and the A/C would turn on!!! It was maddening! It took forever to get the windshield warm. Now I’ve got a fantastic sports car with the same (Ford influenced) problem. We’ve got to find an Electrical Engineer who can help us with creating a real A/C on/off switch.

Also, you know that musty smell that you get out of the vents on a hot day when you turn on the A/C. That’s from all the condensation on the A/C evaporator (looks like a little radiator) in your dash mixing with dust, pollen, mold, bacteria, etc… I find that if I turn off the A/C and just use the fan for a couple of minutes before I get home, I never get that musty smell. But, if my A/C is going to be running all winter when it’s raining and I’m using my heater, it’s going to be constantly damp in the heater box and I’m going to have one musty HVAC system come spring. Grrrrrr…
[Rant Off]

Nubo

I've posted this before but in case it helps anyone I'll do it again.

I took mine in for AC and flash. Service claimed AC was "normal". Since it turned out to be cold when I took it in I figured I'd wait for a hot spell so they could see what I was talking about. However, when I got home and looked at the service invoice I saw they had put down the refrigerant pressures. I then checked the workshop manual. The high-side pressure is in spec, but the low-side is WAY off and too high.

High-side normal and low-side too high have a couple of causes listed. One being the evaporator expansion valve and the other being a defective or mis-installed evaporator temperature sensor. In my mind this would be consistent with weak/cycling output. I haven't pursued it further with service since I spent much of the last few weeks ill. But I will be following it up. Anyway if you've had service and they noted the pressures, compare against this chart. My results are indicated by the red dots.

I don't think it was designed to give poor output. The compressor seems to be providing adequate pressure, the condensor is huge. The weak link may be problems in the area of the evaporator and/or its feedback loop.

RotaMotion

Thanks Nubo,

I'm really hoping my problem is just software When the A/C is in the on part of the cycle the air coming out of the dash vents is freezer cold. Seriously, if it stayed on like that all the time you could hang a deer in the back seat during a hot summer day :D

EatMyBanana

How can they tell if the AC amplifier has been replaced? Thats what i want to know? I ask when i purchased it and was told yes. So i dont want to go in there and complain , to find out mine has been replaced and thats the way it works. ( my air is not bad and if i had not read on hear the issues with it , i wouldnt have really noticed it. But since it was brought to my attention i notice the cycling.)

RotaMotion

Hmmm... I don't know if there is a way outside of when the service guys pull your car up by VIN in the dealership service department. Maybe something in the TSB, which I havn't read yet That reminds me, tomorrow I'm going to look for an M flash sticker in the engine compartment. Just curious if they bothered with it...

DynamicDookie

iTrader: (3)

Tsb