2009 reliablity mods older cars can use?
07-19-2008, 09:16 PM
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2009 reliablity mods older cars can use?
Are there any of the 2009 reliability mods that are simply bolt ons for the older cars? I know the oil metering system won't, but does anyone know about say the new water pump or oil pan? I heard the whole front cover changed so I have some doubts for the water pump. Would be nice to take advantage of any of these things.
Sorry if this is a repost.
Sorry if this is a repost.
07-20-2008, 09:19 AM
#5
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Please READ.
07-20-2008, 09:33 AM
#6
wTF? We can use a smallblock chevy if we need to. He didnt ask if he could use the entire engine(which he could if he had one). He asked for BOLT ON mods the 09 may have on it. At lease you tell everyone in every post the please search, since you have no damn idea and whatever you told them would be wrong. Just another useless post for you to add to your post count.
Please READ.
Please READ.
rofl LOL !
then why dont u tell me what kind of "Bolt on" mods the 09 may have on it that works on older cars?
He was talking about the OMP, which involves the newer motor, so nope, it doesnt work. I did answer his question.
but look at you, did you actually offered any "help"? its ok if u dont know **** about Rx-8, keep trying. ohhhhh wait, yeah u shown us pics about the p-port rotor housing ? oh yeah ... oh wait, thats not rx-8's motor ... ahhh
Another clueless post from a uber moron.
Last edited by nycgps; 07-20-2008 at 09:37 AM.
07-23-2008, 05:54 AM
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sorry I cannot answer your question but check out mazmart for a water pump. They have devloped a new pump that does not cavitate at hight rpm's. Greddy has a larger oil pan that you can get for older renesis.
https://www.rx8club.com/mazmart-88/how-your-new-water-pump-going-116423/
07-23-2008, 08:41 AM
#10
cuz the new oil pan is bigger than the old one. (about time)
Just not sure if its direct bolt on.
My oil pan's seal is not sealing well, I see oil stains on the side. if this new one is direct fit, might as well just trash the old one and install this new one.
Just not sure if its direct bolt on.
My oil pan's seal is not sealing well, I see oil stains on the side. if this new one is direct fit, might as well just trash the old one and install this new one.
07-23-2008, 10:04 AM
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theres already an adjustable analog signal to control the current injectors... they are all ganged anyway, so an additional injector requires no work. I haven't seen specs if the new system uses a variable speed electric motor or a constant speed motor with a variable displacement pump.... but neither would be too hard to control with some electrical engineering know-how
07-23-2008, 10:58 AM
#14
theres already an adjustable analog signal to control the current injectors... they are all ganged anyway, so an additional injector requires no work. I haven't seen specs if the new system uses a variable speed electric motor or a constant speed motor with a variable displacement pump.... but neither would be too hard to control with some electrical engineering know-how
We just have to wait for more 09 information to come out
who wants to be the man and trade their current 8 into the 09 model. that would NOT be me
07-23-2008, 12:14 PM
#17
sorry I cannot answer your question but check out mazmart for a water pump. They have devloped a new pump that does not cavitate at hight rpm's. Greddy has a larger oil pan that you can get for older renesis.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=116423
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=116423
I would imagine the 09 would be a direct bolt up to the gearbox and engine mounts if anyone wanted a complete motor and would take care of their own management.
Paul.
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
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I just ordered the Mazmart water pump, it looks awsome.
Quality looks to be top notch, cant wait to install.
Quality looks to be top notch, cant wait to install.
Most of the important upgrade items won't interchange. One of the things this forum can rely on me for is researching everything new as early as possible. I have the new water pump (Won't work). All the part numbers on the flat housings and rotor housings have changed. I know the rotor housings have the extra holes for metering and I know there's the very different front cover which would possibly affect the front flat housing as well as the oil pump being different which bolts to the front flat housing as well. It looks as if they've relocated the main oil pressure regulator to the front instead of the rear. Since they have altered so many things, I would be surprised if they don't have a different bolt pattern for the oil pan. The new water pump won't work on the older motors which was a relief to me since it is better designed than the previous (Not as good as ours though).
I would imagine the 09 would be a direct bolt up to the gearbox and engine mounts if anyone wanted a complete motor and would take care of their own management.
Paul.
I would imagine the 09 would be a direct bolt up to the gearbox and engine mounts if anyone wanted a complete motor and would take care of their own management.
Paul.
07-23-2008, 01:03 PM
#19
Most of the important upgrade items won't interchange. One of the things this forum can rely on me for is researching everything new as early as possible. I have the new water pump (Won't work). All the part numbers on the flat housings and rotor housings have changed. I know the rotor housings have the extra holes for metering and I know there's the very different front cover which would possibly affect the front flat housing as well as the oil pump being different which bolts to the front flat housing as well. It looks as if they've relocated the main oil pressure regulator to the front instead of the rear. Since they have altered so many things, I would be surprised if they don't have a different bolt pattern for the oil pan. The new water pump won't work on the older motors which was a relief to me since it is better designed than the previous (Not as good as ours though).
I would imagine the 09 would be a direct bolt up to the gearbox and engine mounts if anyone wanted a complete motor and would take care of their own management.
Paul.
I would imagine the 09 would be a direct bolt up to the gearbox and engine mounts if anyone wanted a complete motor and would take care of their own management.
Paul.
07-23-2008, 02:02 PM
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Here you go.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=aisin
About 5 posts down:
I rebuild all the gearboxes for our race team, and I've personally rebuilt dozens of each of the boxes in question. I have some insight into each version.
1. Venerable Miata (and 1st gen RX7) 5-speed. This box is nearly bullet proof, even in forced induction applications. Has been upgraded throughout the years, including helical reverse and dual-cone 2nd gear synchro in '94. Curiously, in '99, the retaining rings that keep the gears from 'overthrowing' were removed from the shift rods. PPF mounts from the passenger side.
2. MX-5 (2006+) 5-speed. This is a new version of the same venerable 5-speed box - exactly the same internals, and intermediate case, with a new bellhousing and tail shaft. This trans adds dual-cone synchros for 3rd and 1st, I think... it's been a while since I've been in one. This is the box that's so highly regarded by MX-5'ers, but it caused us nothing but problems when we tried to race them in the MX-5 Cup. The cases were twisting, and 3rd or 4th would regularly shear off. There was heavy evidence of the case twist. I don't think any of this would be a problem in a street application. PPF mounts from the driver's side.
3. Aisin 6-speed for '99-'05 Miata/Miata Turbo. Generally regarded as bulletproof, not raced as widespread as the RX-8 - but raced enough to know it's a good box. As noted above, has a better 4th gear ratio than in the RX-8. PPF mounts from the passenger side.
4. Aisin 6-speed for '04-'08 RX-8. Generally good reputation for street use, but very fragile for racing use. Big problems with 3rd/4th being overthrown and losing their shift-keys detent *****. Very poor metal quality for both steel and aluminum parts. Quick wear on shift hub slider teeth and matching gear teeth - causing grinding. Doesn't last very long in race use. We've made some upgraded parts that make them last better (one recently finished the NASA 25hr race,) but still a compromised design. At best, our fixes only extend the inevitable demise. PPF mounts on the driver's side.
5. '06+ MX-5 (and '09+ RX-8) 6-speed. Single case, or toploader design (much stiffer structure than the mult-part caes on the other designs.) Very large gears, much bigger than the other gearboxes. Dual cone synchros on all but 5th, 6th and Reverse. The weakest link on this gearbox is the 3/4 shift fork. It's weak metal, and breaks quite easily. We have made a billet replacement for racing use, and I hope that the new RX-8 box has an upgraded part. We've passed on everything we learn to Mazda, they are acutely aware of this issue. There is an adjustment for 3/4th shift throw, and this being mal-adjusted is the cause of most complaints from street users - the dealers can't do anything about it, because it's not in the shop manual... we've worked with Mazda, and it should be added. There are also three plastic bushings that break when the trans gets to racing temperatures. Finally, the 3/4 shift hub is prone to cracking under racing use. The gears are very durable, and the teeth on the hubs/gears stay sharp even after two seasons of racing. MOST of this gearbox is bulletproof, and Mazda is aware of the weak links... I'm sure they have integrated some of these fixes into the RX-8 version of the gearbox, knowing the weight/hp increase that it will need to hold. I can only assume that they delayed putting it into the RX-8 until they learned as much as possible about it. I would confidently say this is the best gearbox of the bunch. PPF is mounted on the [i]driver's[i] side of the case.
Sharp readers will note that on both the 5-speed and the Aisin box, in the Miata application the gearbox is trouble-free, and the RX-8 and MX-5 applications of those same boxes, they don't hold up as well. REALLY sharp readers will notice that the PPF mounts on opposite sides in each case... making me believe that's too much of a coincidence. I think the side it's mounted on makes all the difference in how the tranny will last.
Overall, I'd be happy they went to this box... it should be much better than the current one, especially for street and autox/occasional track use.
As soon as we get one here to play with (hopefully very soon,) I'll let you guys know if the improvements made it in there, and how it holds up for us on the track.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=aisin
About 5 posts down:
I rebuild all the gearboxes for our race team, and I've personally rebuilt dozens of each of the boxes in question. I have some insight into each version.
1. Venerable Miata (and 1st gen RX7) 5-speed. This box is nearly bullet proof, even in forced induction applications. Has been upgraded throughout the years, including helical reverse and dual-cone 2nd gear synchro in '94. Curiously, in '99, the retaining rings that keep the gears from 'overthrowing' were removed from the shift rods. PPF mounts from the passenger side.
2. MX-5 (2006+) 5-speed. This is a new version of the same venerable 5-speed box - exactly the same internals, and intermediate case, with a new bellhousing and tail shaft. This trans adds dual-cone synchros for 3rd and 1st, I think... it's been a while since I've been in one. This is the box that's so highly regarded by MX-5'ers, but it caused us nothing but problems when we tried to race them in the MX-5 Cup. The cases were twisting, and 3rd or 4th would regularly shear off. There was heavy evidence of the case twist. I don't think any of this would be a problem in a street application. PPF mounts from the driver's side.
3. Aisin 6-speed for '99-'05 Miata/Miata Turbo. Generally regarded as bulletproof, not raced as widespread as the RX-8 - but raced enough to know it's a good box. As noted above, has a better 4th gear ratio than in the RX-8. PPF mounts from the passenger side.
4. Aisin 6-speed for '04-'08 RX-8. Generally good reputation for street use, but very fragile for racing use. Big problems with 3rd/4th being overthrown and losing their shift-keys detent *****. Very poor metal quality for both steel and aluminum parts. Quick wear on shift hub slider teeth and matching gear teeth - causing grinding. Doesn't last very long in race use. We've made some upgraded parts that make them last better (one recently finished the NASA 25hr race,) but still a compromised design. At best, our fixes only extend the inevitable demise. PPF mounts on the driver's side.
5. '06+ MX-5 (and '09+ RX-8) 6-speed. Single case, or toploader design (much stiffer structure than the mult-part caes on the other designs.) Very large gears, much bigger than the other gearboxes. Dual cone synchros on all but 5th, 6th and Reverse. The weakest link on this gearbox is the 3/4 shift fork. It's weak metal, and breaks quite easily. We have made a billet replacement for racing use, and I hope that the new RX-8 box has an upgraded part. We've passed on everything we learn to Mazda, they are acutely aware of this issue. There is an adjustment for 3/4th shift throw, and this being mal-adjusted is the cause of most complaints from street users - the dealers can't do anything about it, because it's not in the shop manual... we've worked with Mazda, and it should be added. There are also three plastic bushings that break when the trans gets to racing temperatures. Finally, the 3/4 shift hub is prone to cracking under racing use. The gears are very durable, and the teeth on the hubs/gears stay sharp even after two seasons of racing. MOST of this gearbox is bulletproof, and Mazda is aware of the weak links... I'm sure they have integrated some of these fixes into the RX-8 version of the gearbox, knowing the weight/hp increase that it will need to hold. I can only assume that they delayed putting it into the RX-8 until they learned as much as possible about it. I would confidently say this is the best gearbox of the bunch. PPF is mounted on the [i]driver's[i] side of the case.
Sharp readers will note that on both the 5-speed and the Aisin box, in the Miata application the gearbox is trouble-free, and the RX-8 and MX-5 applications of those same boxes, they don't hold up as well. REALLY sharp readers will notice that the PPF mounts on opposite sides in each case... making me believe that's too much of a coincidence. I think the side it's mounted on makes all the difference in how the tranny will last.
Overall, I'd be happy they went to this box... it should be much better than the current one, especially for street and autox/occasional track use.
As soon as we get one here to play with (hopefully very soon,) I'll let you guys know if the improvements made it in there, and how it holds up for us on the track.
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
#24
SWEET ..... just wait a few more months.
gonna keep an eye on the local junk yard ... if u know what I mean ... lol !
I still have bumper to bumper warranty so Im not really in a hurry ... but now I know since the newer and "should be stronger" 09 tranny will fit ... have no fear, from now on Im gonna drive MUCH MUCH HARDER" on my current tranny. LOL !
gonna keep an eye on the local junk yard ... if u know what I mean ... lol !
I still have bumper to bumper warranty so Im not really in a hurry ... but now I know since the newer and "should be stronger" 09 tranny will fit ... have no fear, from now on Im gonna drive MUCH MUCH HARDER" on my current tranny. LOL !
