RX8Club.com - Jase's Hybrid 4 port auto, with 6 port parts

RX8Club.com (https://www.rx8club.com/)

- Series I AT-Specific Performance Mods (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-specific-performance-mods-97/)

- - Jase's Hybrid 4 port auto, with 6 port parts (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-specific-performance-mods-97/jases-hybrid-4-port-auto-6-port-parts-224822/)

Jase's Hybrid 4 port auto, with 6 port parts Updated Assembly Pics pg2

Hey all

Just making a new thread now that the engine is almost ready.

Basically the history is after going FI, i knew i needed a new motor sooner or later, it happened that a head technician at a local Mazda Dealer, took a 18,000km motor that seized up, cleaned it up, replaced new water seals to replace his FC's 13B. Eventually he discovered he will not have the time to do the swap and the 4 port motor went on sale, i initially offered him 2,000 AUD (the motor was ready to be dropped in and ran), he refused and stated since it was on ebay he wanted to keep it that way. In the end i won the bid at 1,000 AUD :P cant complain.

When we pulled the engine apart, there were obviously mistakes with how this guy assembled the engine (reason for low price?), so parts were completely blocked off, the engine would not have lasted past 5,000kms. Lucky it was never planned to be *dropped in*, The positive news, the housing, the plates, basically every part was *as new* and could be reused

Anyways after running awhile, the inevitable occurred and my rear rotor has lost compression 61 psi, down from 98 psi when tested before going FI.

So i dropped off my spare motor to Rohan from Xtreme Rotary, aka Guru Motorsports. Through some discussion and budgeting we decided to try something new for the 4 port, Since there is not alot of updates for engine work done on 4 port, i do not know if people have attempted this in the past.

But the list goes

Grinding and Nitrite Plates
CNC porting of intake and exhaust ports (not really a aggressive port, but mostly cleaning them up similar to Phil 8)
Dowelling the Engine
We are changing to a 3MM apex seals, therefore needing to make adjustments
I cant quite recall what we are doing with the side seals, and i will speak to them again, but as i recall they were modifying them to fit better, and changing the springs with ones from a rx5 (will need to double clarify this), as this is done for free for me as part of the package so the invoice did not include the details
Balancing of rotating assembly
Isotropic Finish on Eccentric Shaft
Ianetti 3mm 1 Piece Ceramic Apex Seals (Since i saved so much on the motor) Changed to Xtreme Rotary 3mm 1 Piece Ceramic Apex Seals
Mazda Factory Race Rotor Bearings
Housings lapsed to be better then OEM, (ever notice on all engine tear down, there appears to be no marking at all near the spark hole, that's because the factory housing is not flat in that area at all.
Now the interesting bits, I will be changing the center plate with that of a 6 port manual rx8, some minor modification, but ultimately allowing me to have the bigger exhaust ports from a 6 port.
Stationary Gears all replaced with the manual 6 port equivalent.

I will keep this thread updated as i get the pieces done, and try my best to get some photos, as of now, i know all my rotors are balanced, isotropic finished, grind and nitrated, housing lapsed.

The tear down will occur at a later date, due to the fact i dont really need to tear it down, and Rohan is extremely, extremely busy. Thus my lack of information. But when ever he has the time, he said he will give me a buzz and we will have a look at it.

Now i know i may be flamed, frowned upon, sexually harassed for trying something new, and who knows it may work or it may not, I may gain a few ponies. But the ultimate goal is to create a engine that improves the OEM design's weak points and making it more boost friendly. I trust my engine builder, being one of the best out there, and ultimately if any issue arises his opinions will always be prioritized.

I had enough of those 6 port bullies posting all their rebuilds and trying all these fancy things, time to do some work on a 4 port!

Aim of thread is to inform and post some numbers towards the end, informing our 4 port brothers (or sisters) out there on things they could potentially try in the future.

Thanks for reading

:Peace::wavey:

I have attached some pictures showing the dowel holes, and the report of balancing the stock rotors

Quote:

Rohan from Xtreme Rotary, aka Guru Motorsports

destined to be one of the best threads on teh forum ... :bowdown:

I've never liked 4 ports, and bully them often.... that said....

This should turn out really well.

glad someone is stepping up to the plate!
Looking forward to the results :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamRX8 (Post 4112488)

destined to be one of the best threads on teh forum ... :bowdown:

We in Melbourne are so privileged to have one of, if not the best rotary builder in the world! His facilities are amazing! :worship:

Goodluck jason its really coming along well!

PS. Good to see you are moving away from the standard weak pony 4 port crew :bootyshak JK

Good luck with the build!

Guru motorsports does some really nice stuff, you're going to be really really happy.

good luck! looking forward to the results.

is that second pic some super secret order to put a rotary together lol.

Good luck with the build jason, keep us posted

yes keep us posted this might be what i have been waiting for - for my 4 port

^ You've been waiting for a way to make your 4 port more reliable for FI? :dunno:

TBH, I am not expecting any real power gain from this motor, the power that i will gain will most likely be the power that is lost from a failed compression.

The port work that are done are not to increase *power* but allow it to breath easier, and clean up the ports that generally have a lot of carbon stuck.

However i wouldnt rule out a few... ponies.

Anyways update on this motor, basically everything is done, all that is left is for the Ianetti 3mm to arrive and Rohan's milling machine experienced a hard drive malfunction. So a few days for that to get fixed before the CC porting will be done.

Then just the job of putting the parts back together.

Ill be visiting the work shop tomorrow, for some photos and discussions regarding the oil pressure mod (Rohan is quite against it)

Regards
Jason

If you port and polish it horsepower will come.

high expectations often results in sad results with rx8 unfortunately :P

Peek A Boo....:suspect: subbed.

Let the show begin! I love 4 ports.

Sub'd :)

Just checked out the engine, looking real good, left my camera at home however, so i took a few photos using their camera, gotta wait for them to email them to me.

The lapsed housing feels like..... silk :D

Engine is going to be put back together at end of next week.

Also heard some concepts for housings and plates to never have wear for a long long time :P (not for mine, in the near future)

Ok New Motor Put Together and ready to go!
http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...d/DSC00336.jpg

Nah Just Kidding, i wish :D :spank::spank::spank:

Where everything stands now.

Was alerted to today, the apex seals has come in.

Rohan needs to finish with another quad rotor, then he will assemble my engine end of this week.

Then after that i just gotta finish fab some things up for my engine bay, relocate my battery, SOHN reseviour, relocate coils again, dyno + safe tuning on old engine (in prep for new one)

looks good jason, almost ready for the dyno day.

im not going to run the motor on the dyno day, need time to run it in and retuned

Hey all, just spoke to Rohan @ Xtreme rotary about the application of the SOHN adapter.

He thinks its a good idea for a NA RX8. Now what he is questioning is how will this SOHN adapter work in a boosted application. According to mazda and MM's post https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...&highlight=omp

It states that oil gets injected under pressure from the engine oil pump. This all good when the engine is under vacuum or atmso level. But what happens when the engine is in a boosted state? With the SOHN not receiving the pressure from the factory engine oil pump, and being gravity fed, wouldnt the boosted air effectively push the oil out?

He is going to investigate this issue by pulling apart a OMP and conducting a few tests on it with the SOHN Adapter, but does anyone have any idea behind this? I have noticed many people running it on a boosted application E.G MM.

Also to add in if the OMP is a low pressure pump, wouldnt the boost simply completely negate the amount of pressure being fed in, if gravity fed?

On the other side of news, engine put together tomorrow, will go down and watch this process and snap some kodiak moments

Ok Engine is pretty much assembled awaiting parts from my old motor when that gets taken out from the car.

Without further wait, picture overload coming :bowdown:

Collections of all the parts ready to go

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...mbly/Part1.jpg

Notice the manual center plate ;)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...y/Part%202.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...y/Part%203.jpg

Silicon on rods to prevent harmonic vibration

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...ly/Silicon.jpg

Ceramic Bearings in rotor

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...mbly/Rotor.jpg

Plates
http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...20Bearings.jpg

Lapsed Housing with Seals

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...ly/Housing.jpg

Extreme Rotary 3mm Ceramic Apex Seals

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...mic%20Apex.jpg

Now the actual assembly

Rohan the man himself beginning the build :bowdown:

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...bly/Begins.jpg

First Rotor in

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...Rotor%20in.jpg

3MM Ceramic Apex Seals in, with Dual Apex Spring, and Mazda Racing Side Seals, machined to perfect size.

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...bly/apexin.jpg

Second Rotor Goes in

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...y/rotor2in.jpg

Dowels go in

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...bly/Dowels.jpg

Side view of the 4 port, with manual center plate

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%...ide%20view.jpg

The finishing twirl

http://users.tpg.com.au/jzzhu/Motor%.../Finishing.jpg

Now gotta finish fabricating new layout for engine pay.

Testing OMP with SOHN v Boost.

Battery Relocation

Then Break In time

Man those parts were clean and shiny !

Build looks good - keen to see how this goes .

Looks good man!! i wish I could have flown to Oregon to see mine built.

LOOKS GOOD! Did you already mention what the build is running you? :dunno: Don't know why I am asking, just curious I guess.

The motor it self was a carbon seized motor, which i picked up for $1k AUD, it was cleaned and reassembled by Mazda Tech, then ontop of that all the work Xtreme Rotary did cost me $7k without our local 10% tax

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 4127264)

Looks good man!! i wish I could have flown to Oregon to see mine built.

No broken bolts here yet :P fingers crossed

At request of i have to unfortunately cover up the porting work, sorry folks.

Just came across your build progress, very nice. You definitely took it to the right place. Rohan at Xtreame Rotaries is the man!! ..
Looks good any updates dyno etc...??

Thanks! Rohan definitely is the man for engine rebuilds!

Did some drastic changes with the SC setup, had to change alot of things, but the build should be done this week, then ill need to start running the engine in.

I was suggested to go easy for first 2,000 kms to run the engine in specifically the ceramics

So - did the 8 rib drive belt work out ok ?

Hey Brettus, sorry i was not in touch, been really busy.

Anyways still having a issue with finding the belt length required, the one i got was too short. But as a side note, because i changed the rotrex supercharger pulley (which is now a 8 rib as delivered by rotrex) it didnt line up properly with the original crank pulley, so the belt wasnt perfectly straight, the new 8 rib pulley can accommodate the 6 rib and line it up with the new sc pulley. Also found out the tensioner's bracket's nut at the top wasnt aligned properly (from japan) and thus the tensioner adjustment bolt was jarred when pushing the tensioner down. Also the washer inside the tensioner wasnt the proper size thus tensioner was wobbling. Without changing the bracket location, everything was fixed and re-engineered ( i tried to move the tensioner to opposite direction, but it just was not feasible with the AC pulley there.)
Pretty much everything on the original knightsport kit was scrapped other then the SC bracket (which if i had the choice, id scrap too)
most of the JDM things i have gotten recently has been really half arsed built, no where near the original JDM parts, but prices are the same.

look on the bright side at least you didn't go to promaz.

engine being run in now, 1000kms to go

RX8 AT with newly installed 6port motor

It was my understanding that the reason the lesser powerful 4 port engine Mazda installed was because the AT could not handle the 238 HP of the six port. Using Mazda's rational, won't the increase in HP blow the auto transmissions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX8 Dyno Dan (Post 4209265)

No . Check out Phils' 8 SC install - he has run 260whp{340ish crank} for a long time now.

This is one nice engine build thread... Do like the attention to detail and the 3mm apex seal upgrade. Should be a good reliable engine.