astevens26

ive been thinking about doing a swap for a 93 13b cosmo.curious as to who has done this and the difficulty of such a task.ihav the opportunity to get a 10000 mile ls1 for $1000 which kinda takes away from the cars soul but should clear up the lack of tourqe problem.any suggestions on what the easiest swap would be?how much in parts would such a thing cost.i know a stand alone engine management system isnt cheap.

astevens26

i can get the cosmo for $1800 and its got about 40k on it. im assuming that it would bolt up to the stock tranny but im not sure what the hp threshold is.probably not much.i would like to get around 400 to the wheels.would it be recommended to go with tremec?

Mawnee

I"m going to give you a straight answer before the flaming starts...

The kind of questions you are asking suggests you dont have the knowledge or skills to do the fab work yourself. That being the case..... look up the price of a brand new car...say a new camaro. And then decide if you should buy that car, or spend that money paying a shop to do this engine swap for you.

RyansRx8

I would love to do the ls1 and are you talking about the 13b from the rx7? or the 20b from the cosmo? either way if i had the choice i would def do the ls1..theres a guy on there that swapped the ls1 and was running 12.8's or something with the stock motor i believe...theres so much more you can do with a piston engine

zara

Unless replaced with 20B, I think taking the 13B out of the 8 one of the most pointless things. Ruins it.

zara

I hope that's sarcasm. Once again OP, if you bought the 8 for straight line, you've bought the wrong car

ZumnRx8

Im not going to answer this....

dznutzuk

I'm still doing the swap right now, it took me a long time to gather up all the parts that I needed due to personal reasons and work. BTW for those who don't know, there is an engine named 13bre(w) turbo that came in the Mazda Cosmo(20b was a different option). That's the engine that I'm using. The stock tranny does bolt up just as all the 13b's do. You might want to make different engine mounts, and also the stock upper and lower intake manifold doesn't fit. It's raised up way too high, so you'd have to make a custom one. A few people have does this specific engine swap-Demon and Rgonza.

astevens26

its a 13b from a 93 rx7.and good job at being a cocky a-hole mawnee.i just asked a question in which u didnt come close to answering.u sure do spend an awful lot of time on here so id hope u know something about motor swaps.or are all ur threads u being a dick because anybody can be tuff on a cpu screen.why is there always some jack off know it all all the time on here?answer the question if u want to help.telling me to buy ur mullet ride camaro isnt going to solve the lack of power with our 13b..people like mawnee are counter productive.

Mawnee

You asked how much it would cost.
Wasnt trying to be a jerk, was just trying to put into perspective the cost of such a swap. The prices you were tossing around on the motors you could find suggest that you are thinking you could do this on a budget. This has been asked many times..... Unless you can do ALL the work you will end up spending 20-30k before you are done. You can turbo your current engine to reach your power goals for Far far less money and effort.

astevens26

i certainly dont have an endless wallet and i would try to do most if not all the labor.i can get the engines relatively cheap but im just not sure about what type of stand alone would be required. another option for me and probably the best is having a shop in miami do a 2jz swap.the guy says hes done it once before for a guy that blew his 13b 3 times with the greddy turbo.he says hes got the 2jz and will supply an auto tranny which im not a huge fan of but for everything installed and out the door for $10-12 grand.sounds like a sweet deal.tells me id get around 550 to the wheels.i asked him about the ls1 swap and it would be around 6k for the labor and whatever else thats needed.iwould supply the motor and tranny.i really dont think a muscle car motor is feasible though.id like to stay rotary but that 2jz swap sounds pretty sweet.ill take off where it says toyota on the intake manifold and throw a mazda sticker on.lol.but thats an awesome deal huh?obviously id like to see the 8 he did the swap in before ithrow the cash down.lots of shady characters in miami.ths shop is nice though and they seem legit.if i could do a 2j for 12k and not have to turn 1 wrench id be a happy guy with one bad rx8.what do u think?is it even possible to do it for that much?

Mawnee

Yea, sounds like someone is just trying to get your car into the shop. These kind of jobs always end up nickel and diming you to death. You always end up needing another custom this or a special order that. Thast why it gets so pricey having a shop do it.
The most successful of these projects are usually guys doing all the work themselves. Its usually the owners of speedshops or guys that basically have a private speed shop in thier garage. Its alot of tools, materials and manhours to get something like this done.

RyansRx8

No its not actually,we have to spend at least 5k just get over 300whp? It lacks torque like a mother...don't get me wrong its just great around the bends but you can only make it a street car or an autox without spending a **** ton

Mawnee

I didnt spend near 5k...and I'll have well over 300hp and plenty of torque

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

The 13b REW is the FD engine. The 13b RE is the Cosmo engine. Several differences between them.

As far as costs... an engine swap is nothing cheep. Assuming you had a running 20b in hand ready to go, it would cost you about 10~15k to install everything yourself. But personally, I wouldn't ever put a used rotary in my car. I would rebuild it to make sure I know the actual condition of the engine. On a 20b, you can add about 3k to the price on that.

Personally, if it's power you're wanting, drop 6k for the Esmerial turbo kit, and have a DIY bolt on 400 wheel HP upgrade. 400HP in our cars is plenty fast for a regularly driven car. That would be my suggestion. I don't trust a shop that tells you they can install a 2jz for 10~12k. That's as much as it would cost you to install a 20b yourself, so something doesn't add up.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

If a shop does it you're an easy $15k in the hole and that's being conservative. You can search around here for those that have done 20B swaps, even those that have done most of the world themselves have spent over $25 grand on those swaps.

Not to mention 550-rwhp sounds really cool in an RX-8 but then you need a Tremec T-56 trans as you will implode the stock 8 tranny. The trans + a custom PPF, driveshaft and labor there is another $4K plus.

At that power level you will also need new rear axles, rear suspension joints, and possibly a new rear diff. There goes another $3k.

Mawnee was not being an ***, just speaking the truth. If you come in here asking how much this stuff costs, etc and it sounds like you are doings this on a rather tight budget then this really isn't for you.

Hoss

I keep going back and forth on buying a cheap old broken rotary. Are the motors in the FA's worth much as far as rebuilding and making power?

I guess were those motors considered the 13b-re?

dznutzuk

FA's? What's that? Anyway this is the 13bre engine(normally it's also called 13brew, since it's twin turbo) The "W" denotes twin turbo so technically the FD RX7, and the cosmo 13b and 20b are all rew engines. Here's a pic of my 13bre engine that's going in the 8.

RyansRx8

Very very nice

GRUMP8

More than you can afford pal

Hoss

I meant the FB, I confused the two parts of SA/FB lol.

Looks like those either come with a 12a or 13b-re engine, I would guess that with enough work one of these can be built to make just as much power as a 13b-rew? Or at the very least could be built to be a rew? I can get one of these older cars for dirt freakin cheap, and my plans are to build up the motor and either transplant into the 8 or build the 7 into a car to have some fun with.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand your insistence to swap the motor out...
12a is a stupid idea for a RX8. 13b-RE makes the most since, but still, for what point? a turbo on the stock motor will make the same power while keeping the car street drivable for the least amount of money. Swapping out the motor doesn't make since unless you're wanting 600+ Wheel HP (not very street drivable, and very expensive no matter what the motor is), or you just want to be "different" but that still doesn't justify the costs...

http://www.esmerilracing.com/RX-8_Turbo_Kit.html
$5,745.00 all bolt on kit...

Cheaper than any swap you could do...

Hoss

I dont have any insistence to swap the motor out, did you miss the part where I said either swap the motor or build the 7 to have fun. If I found one obviously I would want the 13a instead of the 12a, either way even the 12a has still been proven to be capable of making more power than the renesis...

And even then wouldnt the 13b-re with porting and low boost be a more reliable engine than the 13b-ren with high boost?

Perhaps you should tell this guy that he picked a stupid motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Ab4ABB9Fw

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to who was posting. I assumed that you were the same person that started the thread. I apologize.

As for why I think the Renesis is a better engine...
The Renesis is a more balanced engine than the RE, and there's less overlap so it will run more efficiently with less chance of detonation. Even with a half bridge, it doesn't come close to the factory overlap of any other factory 12a or 13b engine. It's a better overall design.

12a: 130 HP
13b: 160 HP
13b-MSP: 200 HP

The Renesis has a greater potential than any previous motor. The only advantage the others actually have is more time on the market for more people to experiment. The only thing currently known to hold the Renesis back from power over the 500 HP mark is the upper intake manifold. My point is, why would it be a better idea to put a lower base powered engine in your car that's not even as efficient of an engine over all, and cost more to make equivalent power with? (Assuming swapping into your 8)

Porting Renesis: $700
Turbo: $6000
Custom upper intake manifold: $500~$1000
Computer: $1000

And you're sitting pretty to make as much power as your turbo can put down...
no wiring harness changes, no idiot lights on, no mounting fabrications, etc. The only other thing that you would need above about 450 HP would be a bigger tranny, and you can't go wrong with a T56. With the Esmeril kit, port work, and an upper intake manifold you'd be in the 500+ WHP range.

If you're wanting to talk about drag racing trailer queens, then 3 or 4 rotors are king. In the name of purely drag racing and never driving on the street, the choice of motors is all about how much power that you yourself can get out of the block and how light you can make the car. That's much different from a car that's driven for fun. That's a nice 12a build on that guy's car, but that's not a street-able engine.

I don't think we'll ever see the full potential of the Renesis. The 16x will just be too good to ignore (Hopefully).

bse50

reddozen,
you're just talking about the top end power too! Wanna discuss the power band of a renesis vs one of the above engines?
Top power= dyno queen
Average power = good track car, more or less street-able!

I don't know how far the renesis can go but i do like the usable rpms!