DARKMAZ8

I want to fine tune my beast but dont know which product will suit my needs best.....I have an rb exhaust and intake(on the way) and rp high flow cat.....eventually I have plans to get a mild street port done.....also if it matters I got the N flash.....thanks in advance

Magic8

The EMange and CZ are one in the same. Just different packaging. Personally I like the CZ more, because the packaging is pretty good.

Right I will send my CZ to Canzoomer himself to add the injection control module. So in the near future my CZ can control MAF, Ignition, and Injectors. The eManage/CZ is pretty flexible especially given the price of one of these units. One other advantage about the CZ/eManage is that so many people have it on this site that there is a lot of Maps available to try. If you are new, it definitely helps to have something to start with, especially with the ignition tuning. Check out the Canzoomer forum in the Vendor section.

I would also suggest to invest in a Canscan. You really can't tune without it.

I have never tried SAFC so no comments there..

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The particular path I have chosen left the ECU/piggyback issue for last as there are others out there who know much more than I do about that stuff. Since I have already done all of the bolt-ons currently available for power increases my next step is to install an E-Man to get that last 20 h.p. out of the fuel system. Also, with the E-Man I will be able to control my igniton curve and take the nitrous shot to 75, 100, and 125 h.p. levels. Altogether with the stuff I have, a well-mapped E-Man, and the 125 shot I should have about 250 r.w.h.p. dry and 375 with nitrous. The 250 h.p will be a good level for track racing and the 125 shot is Hellacious for street/strip encounters.

CRH

willhave8

Charles,

I am living vicariously through you and others on this site who know what they are doing and adventurous enough to try - keep it up.

Quick question on your +100/125 shot and 375hp... Are you 'beefing' up the tranny to handle that or do you think the stock system is good enough?

Craig

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I have close the same setup, and I have a CZ sitting in my hands. Going to install it today if I have time. Stealthy install, on/off switch, good support, etc. CZ will upgrade an old one for you also if it needs it for a very reasonable price. :D

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Craig,

With the light flywheel my drivetrain has about a 25 h.p. loss to it so a 375 rwhp figure equates to roughly 400 hp at the crank. My confidence in the RX-8 stems from a few things. First, before I started any mods I did some research on past versions of the RX and discovered that there seems to be a 400 hp/high 11 second threshhold at which things like the rear differential might begin to break. I am mentally prepared for this. I also figured a few things based on philosophy which have proven true, such as the fact that the Renesis is more able to deal with abuse than past versions of the rotary. I didn't think Mazda would release a new product without addressing the problems of previous engines/cars. Rotarygod and I had long discussions wherein he supported my thoughts and that was all I needed to get started on the mods. I have subjected my RX to abuses that would have probably ruined the FD engine. I have also kept my foot in the throttle the few times I have experienced wheelhop with the nitrous on and this car still holds up and is as firm as it was the day I bought it. So far, so good. Any prep on the trans will be after I find it to be unable to reliably handle the power. For now the only trans mod was to change to Royal Purple Synchromax fluid. Performance mods I may consider would be to deburr the case, cryo the gearset, cut alternating teeth off of the synchros to aid quick shifts, and design external case stiffener products. If anything other than those are needed then it is time for another trans.

To more succinctly answer your question; I think the RX-8 is going to be far more capable than people originally thought and that includes the transmission. We probably won't see any troublle until the mid 11's. The past reports of trans trouble came from people who had e.t.'s slower than the numbers I am getting so I am lead to believe they were either isolated incidents or drivers who were really hammering their trannys. I have banged mine up a bit and it still shifts smooth.

Thanks for giving me far more credit than I deserve. 99% of what I know comes from discussions with the familiar names on this forum and they are the ones deserving the credit. I just have a great photographic memory.

CRH

Moostafa29

I know you're a very reputable member, so when you post these numbers I won't question the validity, but what is it you have that will get you to 250whp dry and 375whp with nitrous. I only ask because I would rather leave my car n/a, and perhaps follow a similar path as you with nitrous.

DARKMAZ8

I would also like to stay N/A....250whp is my goal but I doubt it will happen without a street port.....so I guess the canzoomer is the way to go still....thanks for the replies and hopefully one day the 8 will outshine the 7 and gain the respect it deserves.....all in due time..

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The biggest gain in rwhp came from the light flywheel and pulleys, like 20+/-. I am also speculating that a similar gain can be had from a well-mapped piggyback. The next biggest gain came from removing the cat altogether. Please keep in mind that I have only "measured" these levels by using a G-Tech. Although far from scientific, it did indicate 179 net h.p. when stock and has been fairly consistent. The G-Tech is currently showing 225 net h.p. and I should amend my numbers to 245/370. I tend to lend some credence to the measurements for two reasons. First, I have cross-checked the numbers indicated against a slide rule that I have used for 25 years and there is only a 15 h.p. difference between the two. Second, the e.t. numbers that the G-Tech has indicated squared directly with what would be expected when comparing to other vehicles. For example, when I was measuring 14.0's I had no trouble beating Mustang GT's by a couple car lengths on a routine basis. The other night I lost to an STi by only one car length and the Tech is telling me I am currently running 13.7's without nitrous. Using the nitrous takes about a full second off my e.t. and I am now having no trouble keeping up with the SVT Cobras in stock trim. New GTO's can't even keep up when decide to use the nitrous. We'll see what the new 400 h.p. GTO has to offer.

I have written in the past that if one wants to make some serious upgrades in h.p. without breaking the bank the way to go is with the flywheel, cat removal, and a piggyback like the CZ or E-Man. After that, smaller stuff like pulleys, cat-backs, and intakes becomes necessary because there isn't much left. The very first mod I have suggested in the past is the Racing Beat sways and springs set so as to get better traction/lose the wheelhop that the factory car has trouble with, not to mention upgrade the overall handling as well. To cure the wheelhop may cut the e.t.'s by a few tenths which equates to about 15-20 rwhp.

One thing about the rotary is that when we do upgrades our mods list is rather short when compared to piston engines because we don't have that many parts to swap. In a way I get a bit jealous that we don't have cams to swap and heads to port but we do have a simple port job that has the same effect. I'll take the RX-8 and it's short list of available mods over the typical Evo8 and STi, any day.

Keep in mind that I am not fortunate enough to do any of this for a profession, I am just an enthusiast like the rest out there. The only thing I can offer as proof of any of my claims is a ride in the car to see for yourselves. There are some out there who have had the opportunity for a few rides. There is also a little bit of video footage to compare my car to those with turbos.

CRH

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

Charles are you going to have a on /off switch to turn the piggyback off when you hit the juice ?? I spoke to you before that Iam currently running into a problem .jp imports told me i cant tune my piggy back to the fullest with nitrous.What i'm looking is how can i get away with this. or if theres no way around this.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

What I plan on doing is using the "boost" circuit on the E-Manage as an ignition reduction circuit. I was told by my local GReddy tuner that the E-Man couldn't do that. However, I was told by Jeff Abrams that the E-Man should/could be set up to do it. I tend to think it can because what I am asking the E-Man to do is actually EASIER that setting up the piggyback for a turbo system. It is easier because the boost level I am using is a fixed level as opposed to a turbo with varying levels of boost. Once I get all of the rest of my parts for the E-Man I am under the impression that Jeff will coach me on what I need to do. I have a decent amount of low-voltage electrical/circuit experience so it should be easy to get it hooked up. The mapping is something I will need to learn.

CRH

dmp

... ....

except you won't gain rwhp by using a flywheel...doubtfull using pullies. Those things affect the car's acceleration - not it's HP.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

That's why I specified "RWHP" and not flywheel h.p.

This argument has seen it's day alreay, D and the bottom line is that the lightweight flywheel makes the car quicker no matter how it is measured. The benefit is the same, although smaller, with light/underdrive pulleys and the argument surrounding those is merely whether or not that couple of h.p. is worth the money. For me, it is because where I come from if you don't cover all of your bases you might as well stay home. To run high 13's is nice in Detroit but unless I am running 11's I got nothin to brag about. Mustangs, Camaros, GTOs, EVO8s, and STis are in my sights. The Hondas and other compact cars are easy prey now that I am in the high 12's with nitrous. I am also pursuing capable handling and braking, as well.

Does that clarify my perspective?

CRH

DARKMAZ8

I have heard that running a light flywheel and lightened pulleys will result in less torque.....

dmp

I just think it's setting people up for failure with promises of "+20hp", when they can dyno, and not see ANY gain. It's intellectually dishonest to claim HP which can't be measured...it would be like me running the 1/4 w/ my audio/full interior and hitting 14.5. Then, GUTTING the car, and hitting 13.7 and suggesting "Gutting your car will give your car 150hp!

Claiming 13.7 is one thing, or 0-60 in 5 seconds flat...but to claim an extra 20hp crosses the line, imo. No offense intended, btw...

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

DMP, I understand exactly what you're saying and offense is never taken on my part, except for maybe once but that was long ago and that person no longer bothers me....

Anyway, you are correct in taking the consumer's advocate perspective. That's one reason I tend to publish my G-Tech findings when I do some detailed mods or comparisons. Richard Paul took a bit of a tongue lashing from me, in a friendly way(not like that!), when he got a bit over-technical with regard to light flywheel benefits/tendencies and so for forth. Like you, I took the consumer's perspective and merely argued that the damn things work.

DARKMAZ8, you can do a search on that topic and probably find the discussion I am talking about. For a more typical view on light flys, p.m. rxeighter as we did his fly a few weeks ago and he noticed a positive difference.

CRH

patrick_andraste

Lightened flywheels. This is from my experience building and racing motorcycles.
a lightened flywheel will not add any horsepower. what it does is allow the engine to accelerate faster because of less energy it has to expend to accelerate a lower mass. It does not add any power under a constant state, IE. not accelerating. It will reduce the implied torque though because of the loss in inertia.


for drag racing, lighter is better.
For street use heavier is better because of a smoother power delivery and reduction of drivetrain shock. (less broken parts)

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Stay on target guys ----

The CZ is a stealthy way to go. And Maurice will upgrade your old one to 'E-Manage Gold" for a small price. All the goodies under one hidden box, that you can take out if needed.