Project 20b RX-8 Commencing...
01-17-2010, 06:23 PM
#51
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Good luck!! You've definitely jumped in with both feet and I hope it works for you. I do agree with rebuilding before installing though. You might get lucky and the engine might be good for a few years but you're going to have to rebuild it eventually, and when you do you'll notice a big differance and regret not doing it to begin with. OR you might be rebuilding it next week. I hope its the first one.
01-17-2010, 08:02 PM
#52
Diego
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i was really cheering for you. thinking that just maybe its possible for someone with out much rotary knowledge being able to pull this off. learn quick take advice etc... and to prove them all wrong.
its seeming unlikely now. the fact that you want to use this as a dd, didn't rebuild the engine. the only thing left for certain disaster is has this shop ever done a 20b swap into a rx8 before?
its seeming unlikely now. the fact that you want to use this as a dd, didn't rebuild the engine. the only thing left for certain disaster is has this shop ever done a 20b swap into a rx8 before?
01-17-2010, 09:21 PM
#53
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You have lots of faith in your project my friend. Best of luck. May I suggest your fabricators (who I truly hope are very familiar with any rotary let alone a rare swap like the project you're undertaking) understand how critical heat management is. If these guys are piston guys they will NOT get it and obviously you are not involved enough to steer this effort (no offense intended). Dump the idea of an aftermarket radiator and trying to use stock puny oil coolers. If you don't invest in cooling then I'm afraid you are going to run into some big problems. Unfortunately there are very, very, very few resources out there for you to tap into for this engine swap/add turbo/tune. This is a really specialized effort you have entered into. If you run into problems please contact me. I know people who can help but you probably can't afford them.
01-18-2010, 06:24 AM
#56
Uncontrollable drifter
Not opening and rebuilding the engine would be the biggest dumbass move that someone could do. First you never know in what condition the engine was in, since it's from Japan who the hell knows(really). Second you don't know exactly how long it's just been sitting around not being turned over. Wouldn't it suck if after 30miles the engine breaks down on you and you have to take it all out...again? You could possibly destroy the engine to a point where it's not rebuildable. Crack that mother open and who knows maybe you won't have to change the apex seals and a lot of other stuff. You should definetly get some Pineapple heavy duty water seals though.
01-18-2010, 10:58 PM
#57
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Rebuild comes to mind with any used engine IMO. Although, this will save a good amount of money, you might end up paying even more than what you have saved down the road just in case this engine does not hold up. It's a strong motor, but after the amount of time it has been sitting and going with a boosted application might not be a good idea. Good luck and hope everything works out for the best!
01-18-2010, 11:01 PM
#58
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Not opening and rebuilding the engine would be the biggest dumbass move that someone could do. First you never know in what condition the engine was in, since it's from Japan who the hell knows(really). Second you don't know exactly how long it's just been sitting around not being turned over. Wouldn't it suck if after 30miles the engine breaks down on you and you have to take it all out...again? You could possibly destroy the engine to a point where it's not rebuildable. Crack that mother open and who knows maybe you won't have to change the apex seals and a lot of other stuff. You should definetly get some Pineapple heavy duty water seals though.
01-18-2010, 11:12 PM
#59
Im really wondering what people do for the drivetrain in a 20B rx8. In a FD rx7 swap, people have been breaking transmissions rather frequently, and the FD tranny is considerably stronger than the RX8 one. To the point alot of people are investigating t56 swaps.
Theres even a guy that broke his rear end not to long ago in his FD, again I do belive the rx8 rear is considerably weaker than the FD.
Theres even a guy that broke his rear end not to long ago in his FD, again I do belive the rx8 rear is considerably weaker than the FD.
01-18-2010, 11:16 PM
#60
Not opening and rebuilding the engine would be the biggest dumbass move that someone could do. First you never know in what condition the engine was in, since it's from Japan who the hell knows(really). Second you don't know exactly how long it's just been sitting around not being turned over. Wouldn't it suck if after 30miles the engine breaks down on you and you have to take it all out...again? You could possibly destroy the engine to a point where it's not rebuildable. Crack that mother open and who knows maybe you won't have to change the apex seals and a lot of other stuff. You should definetly get some Pineapple heavy duty water seals though.
And while you're in there, put some good seals in....
01-19-2010, 03:45 PM
#61
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Im really wondering what people do for the drivetrain in a 20B rx8. In a FD rx7 swap, people have been breaking transmissions rather frequently, and the FD tranny is considerably stronger than the RX8 one. To the point alot of people are investigating t56 swaps.
Theres even a guy that broke his rear end not to long ago in his FD, again I do belive the rx8 rear is considerably weaker than the FD.
Theres even a guy that broke his rear end not to long ago in his FD, again I do belive the rx8 rear is considerably weaker than the FD.
01-19-2010, 06:52 PM
#62
Diego
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Not opening and rebuilding the engine would be the biggest dumbass move that someone could do. First you never know in what condition the engine was in, since it's from Japan who the hell knows(really). Second you don't know exactly how long it's just been sitting around not being turned over. Wouldn't it suck if after 30miles the engine breaks down on you and you have to take it all out...again? You could possibly destroy the engine to a point where it's not rebuildable. Crack that mother open and who knows maybe you won't have to change the apex seals and a lot of other stuff. You should definetly get some Pineapple heavy duty water seals though.
01-19-2010, 08:05 PM
#63
He's as bad as Can
Hey bro you know how much it cost to get a swap done? Maybe he is in a budget. He is already doing way more than most people here would ever want. So cut him some slack.. And i have seen plenty of builds where people use stock engine for a few months. As long as it has good compression, its not a priority to some people. And realistically after spending all this money on just doing the swap getting another 3-5k right away is hard for some.
His knowledge on the subject is limited so he came here to ask advice. He has received advice, some from people that have done the very same swap. He has not taken any of it so one has to wonder why this thread even exists. If the OP continues with his plan to use the wrong turbo and not rebuild a more than 15 year old engine this thread will reverse itself and become a what not to do regarding a 20B swap.
01-19-2010, 08:20 PM
#64
Diego
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If money is an issue one shouldn't be doing a 20B swap.
His knowledge on the subject is limited so he came here to ask advice. He has received advice, some from people that have done the very same swap. He has not taken any of it so one has to wonder why this thread even exists. If the OP continues with his plan to use the wrong turbo and not rebuild a more than 15 year old engine this thread will reverse itself and become a what not to do regarding a 20B swap.
His knowledge on the subject is limited so he came here to ask advice. He has received advice, some from people that have done the very same swap. He has not taken any of it so one has to wonder why this thread even exists. If the OP continues with his plan to use the wrong turbo and not rebuild a more than 15 year old engine this thread will reverse itself and become a what not to do regarding a 20B swap.
Also you stated that many people that gave a comment have done this swap. Really only person who has is Joel no others that im aware of that have done this swap. Again just cause he is not rebuilding it right now because you demand it, it dont mean he wont in the future. You guys have to give him a chance, he is doing a swap everyone on the rx8club would dream to so support him. Otherwise people from now on will never post about their swaps and we wont ever achieve anything. Its always a learning experience for everyone.
01-19-2010, 09:15 PM
#65
He's as bad as Can
26B_RX8 also posted here and is almost done with 4-rotor swap.
Last edited by expo1; 01-19-2010 at 09:23 PM.
01-20-2010, 12:00 AM
#66
Uncontrollable drifter
Hey bro you know how much it cost to get a swap done? Maybe he is in a budget. He is already doing way more than most people here would ever want. So cut him some slack.. And i have seen plenty of builds where people use stock engine for a few months. As long as it has good compression, its not a priority to some people. And realistically after spending all this money on just doing the swap getting another 3-5k right away is hard for some.
01-20-2010, 08:43 AM
#67
Diego
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Not gonna argue but a 20b is WAY more expensive than a diy 13b swap. Like you stated my point was that its better to get everything fabricated and mounted then when you recoup your wallet you can finish the engine. That is my plan with my LS swap. drop stock engine get everything mounted up where i want it then finish the engine.
Im looking forward to the day this gets done though should be a nice car.
Im looking forward to the day this gets done though should be a nice car.
02-04-2010, 09:20 AM
#68
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That's because you're a class act unlike a lot of people who have posted here. A lot of poeple act very toug behind they're computers. Most of which don't have a 20b in their 8 so they don't have any real experience and shouldn't be giving advice.
02-04-2010, 10:17 AM
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I normally don't post much over here (check the post count 
) but someone brought this thread to my attention. I think you may be getting in a bit over your head. You need to stop where your at, take that engine out of the car and have it torn down, and no disrespect meant, but by someone who has 20B experience. By experience I mean built and tuned more than one. It also means because someone has built a 13B doesn't mean they know what to look for in a 20B.
The 35R will work but it will choke up top even in a T4 format. If the stock twins can run on the car the 35R can, it won't "break" anything
That said the smallest thing I would put on the car would be a 67mm on a P-trim turbine with a .96 undivided housing. I don't care who from where says what, there is absolutely no need for a 45-47R, it's way oversized for the 450whp+ that your after. You can get 500whp+@10psi or less on a 4202 all day long with either a TiAL 1.0 rear or a T6 1.0.
I would tear the engine down get the e-shaft inspected put all new main bearings in at the very least. I would also consider necessary oil mods. Run either FD rotor housings or re-sleeve the 20B ones with FD sleeves. Find some FD rotors if possible and use those. The car will be much nicer to drive on FD rotors and you wont need to run as much boost. This is not a high boost street drag car so there is no need to run the lower comp 20B rotors for any safety unless you don't know how to tune and like a more lazy less crisp feeling car.
If you don't tear this engine down and at least get it properly inspected by someone with 20B experience my guess is it will be coming right back out with some serious damage and certain 20B parts if damaged aren't easy to come by. Good luck with your project. I hope that helps somewhat, I'd just hate to see you put a lot of money out and end up with nothing but problems, and right now I think that's where you're most likely headed.
~S~
) but someone brought this thread to my attention. I think you may be getting in a bit over your head. You need to stop where your at, take that engine out of the car and have it torn down, and no disrespect meant, but by someone who has 20B experience. By experience I mean built and tuned more than one. It also means because someone has built a 13B doesn't mean they know what to look for in a 20B. The 35R will work but it will choke up top even in a T4 format. If the stock twins can run on the car the 35R can, it won't "break" anything
That said the smallest thing I would put on the car would be a 67mm on a P-trim turbine with a .96 undivided housing. I don't care who from where says what, there is absolutely no need for a 45-47R, it's way oversized for the 450whp+ that your after. You can get 500whp+@10psi or less on a 4202 all day long with either a TiAL 1.0 rear or a T6 1.0.I would tear the engine down get the e-shaft inspected put all new main bearings in at the very least. I would also consider necessary oil mods. Run either FD rotor housings or re-sleeve the 20B ones with FD sleeves. Find some FD rotors if possible and use those. The car will be much nicer to drive on FD rotors and you wont need to run as much boost. This is not a high boost street drag car so there is no need to run the lower comp 20B rotors for any safety unless you don't know how to tune and like a more lazy less crisp feeling car.
If you don't tear this engine down and at least get it properly inspected by someone with 20B experience my guess is it will be coming right back out with some serious damage and certain 20B parts if damaged aren't easy to come by. Good luck with your project. I hope that helps somewhat, I'd just hate to see you put a lot of money out and end up with nothing but problems, and right now I think that's where you're most likely headed.
~S~
Last edited by Zero R; 02-04-2010 at 10:21 AM.
02-05-2010, 06:54 AM
#70
Registered
I normally don't post much over here (check the post count ) but someone brought this thread to my attention. I think you may be getting in a bit over your head. You need to stop where your at, take that engine out of the car and have it torn down, and no disrespect meant, but by someone who has 20B experience. By experience I mean built and tuned more than one. It also means because someone has built a 13B doesn't mean they know what to look for in a 20B.
The 35R will work but it will choke up top even in a T4 format. If the stock twins can run on the car the 35R can, it won't "break" anything That said the smallest thing I would put on the car would be a 67mm on a P-trim turbine with a .96 undivided housing. I don't care who from where says what, there is absolutely no need for a 45-47R, it's way oversized for the 450whp+ that your after. You can get 500whp+@10psi or less on a 4202 all day long with either a TiAL 1.0 rear or a T6 1.0.
I would tear the engine down get the e-shaft inspected put all new main bearings in at the very least. I would also consider necessary oil mods. Run either FD rotor housings or re-sleeve the 20B ones with FD sleeves. Find some FD rotors if possible and use those. The car will be much nicer to drive on FD rotors and you wont need to run as much boost. This is not a high boost street drag car so there is no need to run the lower comp 20B rotors for any safety unless you don't know how to tune and like a more lazy less crisp feeling car.
If you don't tear this engine down and at least get it properly inspected by someone with 20B experience my guess is it will be coming right back out with some serious damage and certain 20B parts if damaged aren't easy to come by. Good luck with your project. I hope that helps somewhat, I'd just hate to see you put a lot of money out and end up with nothing but problems, and right now I think that's where you're most likely headed.
~S~
) but someone brought this thread to my attention. I think you may be getting in a bit over your head. You need to stop where your at, take that engine out of the car and have it torn down, and no disrespect meant, but by someone who has 20B experience. By experience I mean built and tuned more than one. It also means because someone has built a 13B doesn't mean they know what to look for in a 20B. The 35R will work but it will choke up top even in a T4 format. If the stock twins can run on the car the 35R can, it won't "break" anything
That said the smallest thing I would put on the car would be a 67mm on a P-trim turbine with a .96 undivided housing. I don't care who from where says what, there is absolutely no need for a 45-47R, it's way oversized for the 450whp+ that your after. You can get 500whp+@10psi or less on a 4202 all day long with either a TiAL 1.0 rear or a T6 1.0.I would tear the engine down get the e-shaft inspected put all new main bearings in at the very least. I would also consider necessary oil mods. Run either FD rotor housings or re-sleeve the 20B ones with FD sleeves. Find some FD rotors if possible and use those. The car will be much nicer to drive on FD rotors and you wont need to run as much boost. This is not a high boost street drag car so there is no need to run the lower comp 20B rotors for any safety unless you don't know how to tune and like a more lazy less crisp feeling car.
If you don't tear this engine down and at least get it properly inspected by someone with 20B experience my guess is it will be coming right back out with some serious damage and certain 20B parts if damaged aren't easy to come by. Good luck with your project. I hope that helps somewhat, I'd just hate to see you put a lot of money out and end up with nothing but problems, and right now I think that's where you're most likely headed.
~S~
Nice. If you would'nt mind sharing some more info I would be interested to know the differences in rebuild cost from a 2 to 3 rotor. I can only assume that the e-shaft is preserved therefore the consumables are the same but with 50% more product/cost due to the one extra rotor and necessary apex, side, corner, springs, control, cutoff, etc., etc. Because its a 3 rotor is there anymore ADDITONAL cost. I'm asking just out of curiosity.
Thanks for chiming in. Not sure your sage advice will be followed however you've got my attention 100%.
Cheers to all. Go Colts for the SuperBowl!!!!
02-05-2010, 05:18 PM
#71
Uncontrollable drifter
I wasn't trying to be a dick, just trying to convince him not not opening the engine that's all. It's going to end up costing as much as you paid for the engine-let's say if the center housing gets damaged, that's about half of what the engine costs, so...
ZeroR-great to see you chime in with your knowledge! You should do so more often although many people might not know who you are.
ZeroR-great to see you chime in with your knowledge! You should do so more often although many people might not know who you are.
02-05-2010, 05:54 PM
#72
Uncontrollable drifter
Not gonna argue but a 20b is WAY more expensive than a diy 13b swap. Like you stated my point was that its better to get everything fabricated and mounted then when you recoup your wallet you can finish the engine. That is my plan with my LS swap. drop stock engine get everything mounted up where i want it then finish the engine.
Im looking forward to the day this gets done though should be a nice car.
Im looking forward to the day this gets done though should be a nice car.
2 extra ignition coils
1 extra 1600cc injector
1 extra exhaust piping on the manifold
Now work and fabrication wise:
Cutting the engine subframe and extending it by 4-6inches and making an adapter for the steering linkage.
Other than that, everything else was the same!
Btw-it costs about $2000 for all the seals that will be needed(these are all brand new parts-might not even need them all, but then again the housings or irons or rotors might not be in great condition), and I'm guessing about 1000 the most for someone to open it check it out and rebuild it.
07-07-2010, 12:46 PM
#75
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Things are still going....We waited a long time for fuel rails from our good friends in aussie. Working on fuel system and oil system...i'll keep post pics by next week...Thanks to all who are backing me on this project!